Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #5

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Her mother posted on FB there was no evidence of drugs found in Cheryl's body. I would think if she had been on medication it would have shown up.

I may be wrong but I didn't think the TOX report had been completed or made public so I am sure her mother wouldnt be making that up.
 
One article said smears on seat and inside of front door.



My observation backed up by a small data source is women prefer poisons and drugs (i.e. ingestion of something), men prefer guns, or jumping to their deaths. Obviously this is not absolute. Doubling up (>1 method) is frequent, as are outdoor suicides. Also are quite a few outdoor hangings.

I'm sorry about the deluge of posts, I just wanted to provide some counterbalance to the homicide theories.

yeah like that other cancer researcher across the pond, goes out to walk the dog and they find him hanging from a tree in a rubber suit and they called it a sex game gone wrong/suicide. Bizarre and the dog was wandering around near the body I think
 
Totally agree... Too many "disappearances" & "suicides"... LE doesn't want to create a panic. The woman found in the Snohomish river in January, CD, Amy Kennelly (all 3 women disappeared on Mondays) and the woman that was attempted to be abducted in Tumwater ( also a Monday, and btw where is a sketch of her attacker?). And as much as I respect LE (my son is one in another state) I do think based on conversations with him, that LE are too quick to explain away some of the deaths (tho he won't agree with me).

well the Seattle times just came out with an article that they need more cops so I am sure they are overworked, perhaps they want to just close as many cases as they can and not dwell on other possibilities..
 
So Mrs DeBoer cared enough to find an 'excuse' in order to her colleague not to be waiting for her and she didn't care enough to leave a letter for her loved ones? For her son, for her husband? Never!

She would never do it for what we have been knowing about her!

And then she would have the trouble to drive and park, then to walk a mile, put a bag over her head and crawl into a culvert?

And, as if it wasn't enough she is supposed to have died from two causes knowing us that each one of this causes would be enough to kill a person?

How can a person die from asphyxiation and ALSO from drowning? Or from drowning and ALSO from asphyxiation?

I don't buy the suicide story at all and I think the LE is doing a poor job here. From the way they have been wording this case to the public to the time they have taken to appear now with this and also the lost they appear to be. It seems they don't have a clue and they are saying ridiculous things imo.
 
This is what I cannot get past. I am claustrophobic and my biggest fear is dying via drowning or suffocation. I just have a hard time believing someone who is claustrophobic would choose not just one, but both of these methods.
 
This is what I cannot get past. I am claustrophobic and my biggest fear is dying via drowning or suffocation. I just have a hard time believing someone who is claustrophobic would choose not just one, but both of these methods.

did someone say she was claustrophobic ? If that is true then WOWSERS they chose to take her out via her most feared form of death.. that is wicked. I agree fully this is not suicide and my first indication LE was being a little , well..light on their feet is when the hubby was the one to find the car, then her friends and their search efforts are the ones that find her. Not good police work IMO, I do know they are under staffed and over worked, I get that but gee whiz
 
did someone say she was claustrophobic ? If that is true then WOWSERS they chose to take her out via her most feared form of death.. that is wicked. I agree fully this is not suicide and my first indication LE was being a little , well..light on their feet is when the hubby was the one to find the car, then her friends and their search efforts are the ones that find her. Not good police work IMO, I do know they are under staffed and over worked, I get that but gee whiz

Where is the helium tank, drugs, alcohol? Oh wait there isn't any. So how does exit bag work without one of those? You would rip the bag off your head before you asphyxiate. She was claustrophobic. The wrong kind of bag was used. She left food out for dinner. She adopted a cat she had been waiting for months 2 days before she went missing.

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I should have added Sryker's post. Sorry!
 
This is starting to take the tone of either a thrill killing or a robbery.......or maybe a little of both.

There's going to be two perps involved.......one driving, one controlling.

Victims items missing--- phone, wallet, car keys.
Per stryker57--- Cheryl's car was never moved after she parked it, that's good enough for me.

Now that the M.E. and Pickard have decided to release the cause of death after 6 weeks of "investigation", a conclusion that most of us could have arrived at in about 10 minutes or less, this indicates to me that this was an attack by a couple of individuals that are as much of a failure at murder as they are at life in general.

The plastic bag was used as a control mechanism. "If you behave and sit still, I'll let you get a breath of air. The harder you fight, the tighter I hold the bag". She could have been restrained by simply being put into a chokehold or being straddled and sat on. This would have resulted in very few defensive wounds as well as little to no bruising. This act would have been a team effort by at least two individuals, one driving, one controlling her and more than likely it occurred in a large vehicle such as a van.

If robbery was the motive, then obviously they didn't get much. That's another reason why this has the feel of a thrill kill, or better yet, somebody acting out something they watched in a horror movie. This wouldn't be the first time that a couple of psychopathic friends decided to kill somebody just to experience the adrenaline rush.

If you shoot someone, you leave behind evidence. If you stab someone, you leave behind evidence. If you smother someone....well, depending on the circumstances, there may be little evidence left. The plastic bag itself is the murder weapon. I'm sure after 5 or 6 days in the water, there wasn't any fingerprints left to lift from the bag. The cuts on her fingers may have come from grappling with the person holding it over her head.

When they pulled up next to the culvert and tossed her out, it was believed she was dead. She wasn't. Unconscious yes, but still breathing. Maybe a pinhole was torn in the bag, maybe it wasn't sealed completely around her neck, but she was still alive. Had the culvert been dry that day and no water running through it, she may have actually survived this attack. This is where the conflicting cause of death is stemming from, it appears to be both, but we all know it has to be one or the other. The bag over the head leans towards asphyxiation, the water in the lungs leans towards drowning.

There's two killers on the loose in Mountlake Terrace.....but good luck convincing the PD of that. Like I said three weeks ago, they are either going to file this under suicide or "undetermined." They're going to take the evidence they have and mold it and form it to fit a theory. In this case, suicide.

As has become standard operating procedure, in the press release yesterday, LE stated that efforts to look into her computer records and cell phone records were ongoing. Great !! If this was a random crime though, nothing is going to come from those searches. What you see is what you get. What you know, is all your're gonna know.
 
I need to address the topic of leaving a suicide note and the implication that not leaving a note shows little care or thought for family and loved ones.

A very close family member of mine committed suicide 30 years ago. Although in our case there was nothing at all to suggest that it was anything but suicide, it took a couple of years before my mother and I could accept that it was suicide. We couldn't believe that he would do that - to himself or to us.
He didn't leave a note and that was something we found particularly hard to cope with. No final words of goodbye, no explanation, nothing.
We were told at the time that actually only around 30% of people who do this will leave a note. That was the statistic in 1985, in England. Of course I realise it may be different now, and in other cultures/countries. I don't know.


To be clear, I'm not saying this is suicide in this case.
 
This is starting to take the tone of either a thrill killing or a robbery.......or maybe a little of both.

There's going to be two perps involved.......one driving, one controlling.

Victims items missing--- phone, wallet, car keys.
Per stryker57--- Cheryl's car was never moved after she parked it, that's good enough for me.

Now that the M.E. and Pickard have decided to release the cause of death after 6 weeks of "investigation", a conclusion that most of us could have arrived at in about 10 minutes or less, this indicates to me that this was an attack by a couple of individuals that are as much of a failure at murder as they are at life in general.

The plastic bag was used as a control mechanism. "If you behave and sit still, I'll let you get a breath of air. The harder you fight, the tighter I hold the bag". She could have been restrained by simply being put into a chokehold or being straddled and sat on. This would have resulted in very few defensive wounds as well as little to no bruising. This act would have been a team effort by at least two individuals, one driving, one controlling her and more than likely it occurred in a large vehicle such as a van.

If robbery was the motive, then obviously they didn't get much. That's another reason why this has the feel of a thrill kill, or better yet, somebody acting out something they watched in a horror movie. This wouldn't be the first time that a couple of psychopathic friends decided to kill somebody just to experience the adrenaline rush.

If you shoot someone, you leave behind evidence. If you stab someone, you leave behind evidence. If you smother someone....well, depending on the circumstances, there may be little evidence left. The plastic bag itself is the murder weapon. I'm sure after 5 or 6 days in the water, there wasn't any fingerprints left to lift from the bag. The cuts on her fingers may have come from grappling with the person holding it over her head.

When they pulled up next to the culvert and tossed her out, it was believed she was dead. She wasn't. Unconscious yes, but still breathing. Maybe a pinhole was torn in the bag, maybe it wasn't sealed completely around her neck, but she was still alive. Had the culvert been dry that day and no water running through it, she may have actually survived this attack. This is where the conflicting cause of death is stemming from, it appears to be both, but we all know it has to be one or the other. The bag over the head leans towards asphyxiation, the water in the lungs leans towards drowning.

There's two killers on the loose in Mountlake Terrace.....but good luck convincing the PD of that. Like I said three weeks ago, they are either going to file this under suicide or "undetermined." They're going to take the evidence they have and mold it and form it to fit a theory. In this case, suicide.

As has become standard operating procedure, in the press release yesterday, LE stated that efforts to look into her computer records and cell phone records were ongoing. Great !! If this was a random crime though, nothing is going to come from those searches. What you see is what you get. What you know, is all your're gonna know.

the life insurance company will be tickled to hear this ( if suicide is the final determination )... I still think it was a hired hit or someone who knew her... JMO..
 
I need to address the topic of leaving a suicide note and the implication that not leaving a note shows little care or thought for family and loved ones.

A very close family member of mine committed suicide 30 years ago. Although in our case there was nothing at all to suggest that it was anything but suicide, it took a couple of years before my mother and I could accept that it was suicide. We couldn't believe that he would do that - to himself or to us.
He didn't leave a note and that was something we found particularly hard to cope with. No final words of goodbye, no explanation, nothing.
We were told at the time that actually only around 30% of people who do this will leave a note. That was the statistic in 1985, in England. Of course I realise it may be different now, and in other cultures/countries. I don't know.


To be clear, I'm not saying this is suicide in this case.

I am so sorry you had to experience this . I sure do not understand the thought process of anyone who would do this, but I am not walking in their shoes. Again I am so sorry for all of the friends and family and the man who felt there was no other options but to end his life, hugs to you dance
 
I've thought about this a lot recently. We see what we expect to see and we frequently don't see the unexpected for what it is. So, did someone see a woman being helped into a car (nothing you'd think about twice) or did they see a woman being shoved into a car (in which case you'd render aid or call 911)?

As an example, I was home one afternoon many years ago when I heard a very loud noise coming from across the street. I glanced out the window and what I saw was a young man kicking the front door. What my mind interpreted this as was the teenager who lived there forgetting his key (again!) and kicking the door in frustration. In that time and place, that was what I would expect to see and not something I'd think twice about. What it actually was (as I found out later that day) was a kid trying to rob their house by kicking the front door in. That was not something I would have expected to see, so I didn't see it.

What I'm trying to say is that we can see something but interpret it as an ordinary occurrence rather than an unusual occurrence, something we wouldn't expect to see in that place or at that time. Sometimes things we interpret events as unusual only after the fact when we receive more information about them.

Good points.

If Cheryl walked from her car to this culvert, is a woman walking along that road at that time of day something people would expect to see? Would it be memorable to see someone walking there at that time of day?
 
If Cheryl's belongings remain missing, I have trouble believing suicide. Even if she was thinking, "I want to make this look like a possible murder so that my family still gets life insurance money," why would she take the chance of someone seeing her walking to the culvert? If someone recognized her and stopped and said, "Um, Cheryl, where ya goin'?" that would likely thwart her plan, no?

But, if her hands were not tied and there were no defensive wounds/signs of a struggle/bruising, it makes murder seem less likely. Wouldn't she have put up some kind of fight if a bag was put over her head? WHAT EXACTLY ARE THESE CUTS ON HER FINGERS??? How about the blood on the interior of the car??

For me to believe suicide, there will have to be a combination of these things: her belongings have been found near her body, she did a computer search for suicide by exit bag (never heard this term until today), there was some kind of substance in her system, there was helium near her body (and really? she'd be walking down the road with a helium tank? Doubtful). Not necessarily all four, but at least 2 out of those 4. If none of those 4 exist, it's not suicide in my opinion.

I wish they'd release more specifics like what type of bag. Maybe it would trigger something in someone's memory.
 
One more thought. How tightly would a bag have to be tied to not come off in moving water after a week? Does a tightly tied bag point more to murder or suicide?
 
I am so sorry you had to experience this . I sure do not understand the thought process of anyone who would do this, but I am not walking in their shoes. Again I am so sorry for all of the friends and family and the man who felt there was no other options but to end his life, hugs to you dance

Thanks dizzy. :)

I just needed to put it out there because many people do assume that in the vast majority of cases, people will leave a note to say goodbye to loved ones. I've seen some comments on SM about Cheryl's case where people are saying things like it can't be suicide because no note has been found.

After I had posted I found a few research studies showing that notes are only left in a minority of cases, it seems the figure is still around 30% even nowadays and in other countries. Greece and Japan were two of the countries studied in the research papers I found.
 
Thanks dizzy. :)

I just needed to put it out there because many people do assume that in the vast majority of cases, people will leave a note to say goodbye to loved ones. I've seen some comments on SM about Cheryl's case where people are saying things like it can't be suicide because no note has been found.

After I had posted I found a few research studies showing that notes are only left in a minority of cases, it seems the figure is still around 30% even nowadays and in other countries. Greece and Japan were two of the countries studied in the research papers I found.

I've posted before that I've had a dark time in my life when I contemplated suicide. I really don't think I'd have left a note. For one, people would know why I did it (because I was going through a really hard time), and two, I wouldn't think there would be anything I could say that would make it any better for anyone. I would assume people would be angry with me for doing it, and my words would not help matters. If someone had committed suicide in a manner that looked like it could be murder, there are other reasons for not leaving notes like life insurance policies (if they exclude suicide) and not wanting the family to have to experience the pain of suicide.
 
Local 4:30 AM broadcast on KIRO states the blood in the car was Cheryls and "animal"
 
Mrs. DeBoer is the victim of an horrendous crime as are her family members. I will say it again - Mrs. DeBoer DID NOT ditch her belongings and walk 1.5 miles to a cold, watery culvert to crawl in there, secure a plastic bag over her head and kill herself. She was taken by force and murdered. MURDERED!!! LE may not have a clue and the killer(s) may not have left a lot of evidence, but there is something, somewhere that will prove murder and will prove who did this.

It is beyond my comprehension that LE can state that there is nothing to suggest a brutal homicide but there is blood in her car, her personal items are missing and the cause of death is asphyxiation due to a plastic bag secured around her head AND fresh water drowning in a freaking subsurface culvert. Is this Mayberry and Barney Fife is the spokesperson?

LE needs to announce that there is a murderer to be captured and his last known attack was in quaint little ol' Mountlake Terrace, his dumping ground a sweet little suburban neighborhood and that she was forcibly abducted near the park and ride that hundreds of the unassuming public use every day, a block from the police station, across from the assisted living centers, on a busy street in morning rush hour traffic. This is a bold killer and everyone should be on the alert.

Why there are no surveillance cameras telling the story is beyond me; there are cameras everywhere. This killer/these killers managed to elude them all? I don't believe it for a second.

It infuriates me that LE is not forthcoming and instead is telling people that they are waiting on tox results before they reach a conclusion on manner of death. Meanwhile, the public is going around doubting murder and thinking 'well, maybe it was suicide and we are all safe and secure with our great LE in charge'.

They need to release depictions of the clothes she was wearing, her jewelry, her purse, her phone, her wallet, her key ring - anything that may be noticed now or would jog someone's memory from that morning. Just a photo of her face will not be useful at all if someone saw her from behind or found an empty wallet in a trash bin. I pray that the family is getting more info than the public but the public will bring in the leads.

Mrs. DeBoer's life mattered, her death is not of her own doing and I am 100% certain that there is a killer loose in Mountlake. Someone needs to wake everyone up and the citizens need to shake the trees until the murderer is found.

May God rest her soul and may He shed light on her killer.
The Thank you button is not enough for your post :) Very well said!

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Just read that & came here. I feel absolutely sick to my stomach. Dear God. What she must have gone through.

Can anyone please explain/speculate as to why this is still undetermined and not homicide?

Feeling sick, too. I had to walk away from the initial news last night and woke up to find the police chief's inane announcement.

Something occurred to me as a result of the photos you took of the culvert area and posted in the previous thread. In the last photo, are those berry bushes? They look like it to me and Pickard mentioned they searched berry bushes. If so, did you notice if they, or any other plants in the overgrowth, have thorns?

My partner's from southern WA and his experience with berry bushes is similar to mine: a tangle of thorns. A tangle of thorns that would very likely puncture or tear a plastic bag.
 
Feeling sick, too. I had to walk away from the initial news last night and woke up to find the police chief's inane announcement.

Something occurred to me as a result of the photos you took of the culvert area and posted in the previous thread. In the last photo, are those berry bushes? They look like it to me and Pickard mentioned they searched berry bushes. If so, did you notice if they, or any other plants in the overgrowth, have thorns?

My partner's from southern WA and his experience with berry bushes is similar to mine: a tangle of thorns. A tangle of thorns that would very likely puncture or tear a plastic bag.

BBM. And make cuts on fingers.
 
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