Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7

[jadejazzkayla]

Irks me too, and makes me wonder, why a few people on here are trying SO hard to convince everyone it was suicide when it is such a stretch to do so. It just doesn't add up for suicide, yet there's a pervasiveness to explain it all away with statistics. Statistics can be distorted to suit the situation.

when a case is solved the manner of death will fall into a statistics bucket. either homicide, accident, natural causes, suicide, or the dreaded undetermined. until then I keep an open mind and let the evidence speak.

statistics cannot solve this case nor can it be considered evidence. it is just a distraction to our discussion, imo.

 

[Alohaj]

statistics cannot solve this case nor can it be considered evidence. it is just a distraction to our discussion, imo.

Agree

 

[Lilibet]

You have presented yourself on here as an "LE professional", repeatedly referring to your "experience", shouldn't you be getting verified?

If not then your opinion is just that, your opinion. What do you have vested for this to be a suicide?

Anzac is verified Search and Rescue...SAR. He has explained previously that he is trained to assist LE in looking for evidence, including bodies, and more. I can't speak for him, and I don't always agree with him, but I don't think he is necessarily "vested" in this being suicide. It strikes me that he is agreeing with LE's general assessment that there is no evidence of homicidal violence, etc. While that isn't enough to convince me, it apparently is enough to cause him to lean heavily in the direction of suicide. It's still just an opinion, based on his experience. No one here has enough information to say whether it was murder or suicide at this point. We have opinions, and mine jumps from one side of the fence to the other! Just because someone is verified doesn't mean we have to accept everything they say as fact or agree with them. But I do appreciate the information he shares about his experience because it broadens my own knowledge and helps me evaluate my current opinion. All MOO.

 

[Alohaj]

Anzac is verified Search and Rescue...SAR. He has explained previously that he is trained to assist LE in looking for evidence, including bodies, and more. I can't speak for him, and I don't always agree with him, but I don't think he is necessarily "vested" in this being suicide. It strikes me that he is agreeing with LE's general assessment that there is no evidence of homicidal violence, etc. While that isn't enough to convince me, it apparently is enough to cause him to lean heavily in the direction of suicide. It's still just an opinion, based on his experience. No one here has enough information to say whether it was murder or suicide at this point. We have opinions, and mine jumps from one side of the fence to the other! Just because someone is verified doesn't mean we have to accept everything they say as fact or agree with them. But I do appreciate the information he shares about his experience because it broadens my own knowledge and helps me evaluate my current opinion. All MOO.

Thank you for the clarification, where on the site does one go to see that someone is a verified?

 

[Alohaj]

I found the list, and am posting only a portion of it, but I must have missed that individuals name on there? In any category:


K9 SAR & Police
SAR management
justtoseeyousmile
k9snoop
Oriah
Sarx
K-9 Chaser
indepmo
MTrooper
CALSAR

 

[lisette]

Thank you for the clarification, where on the site does one go to see that someone is a verified?

Under his user name (ANZAC), it says that he is "verified SAR" (search and rescue)

 

[Lilibet]

Thank you for the clarification, where on the site does one go to see that someone is a verified?

It says "Verified SAR" under his name on his posts. Easy to miss. Here is a list of verified professionals. There is a lot of talent here on WS. I'm not sure if it's up to date, as I don't think I see Anzac on there. But I remember when he was verified on an earlier thread. Hope this helps.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?191641-Professional-Posters-amp-Verified-Insiders

 

[beach]

Admin Reminder

Clearly, opinions are going to differ. That is natural so just accept that fact.

It is important to post respectfully towards each other. If you can't, it's always best to agree to disagree and move on.



This post falls at random.

 

[Alohaj]

It says "Verified SAR" under his name on his posts. Easy to miss. Here is a list of verified professionals. There is a lot of talent here on WS. I'm not sure if it's up to date, as I don't think I see Anzac on there. But I remember when he was verified on an earlier thread. Hope this helps.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?191641-Professional-Posters-amp-Verified-Insiders

Thanks, but hmm, this is odd. Not there at all, yet the list is updated enough to have CD's case w/her son listed as verified insider.

 

[Lilibet]

I've been thinking about how we arrive at different opinions even though we all have the same facts revealed by LE. It seems that the majority is either leaning toward murder or firmly planted there. Others are convinced that Cheryl committed suicide or are leaning in that direction. Some are still unsure. Yet we all have the same information. But we evaluate the information through the lens of our own experience in life, our own logic, other cases on WS and even our values and biases...so we reach different conclusions. And at this point, if we're fair, we really can't say with certainly which opinion is definitely correct. We may think we're right, but we don't know for sure until more information shows up.

For example, in the case of Rebecca Zahau, even though she certainly could have felt like committing suicide, there was also ample reason for someone to want her dead. Most people disagree with LE deciding that Rebecca committed suicide naked by hanging herself from an outside balcony with her hands tied, leaving a cryptic message painted on a door inside. They demonstrated how it could be done and we still don't buy it. It has to be murder. And it could have been done to look like murder. But others are sure it was suicide. Opinions differ because people differ.

There are still active discussions here about Jon Benet Ramsey and Madeline McCann. People see the same information and disagree. Go figure. We are each individuals. Even if we disagree, we can challenge our own opinions, learn from each other and draw on that knowledge both in life and on other cases. Disagreeing can be a win-win.

 

[Lilibet]

Thanks, but hmm, this is odd. Not there at all, yet the list is updated enough to have CD's case w/her son listed as verified insider.

Cheryl's son was verified long before Anzac. I believe lavaland was verified, but isn't on the list. I just think it takes time to catch up. Lots going on all over WS. As I said, I remember when he was verified and it may have been before you started posting. You can pm Beach if you want clarity.

 

[Alohaj]

Even if we disagree, we can challenge our own opinions, learn from each other and draw on that knowledge both in life and on other cases. Disagreeing can be a win-win.

Very nicely put, thank you.

 

[jennapuppy]

when a case is solved the manner of death will fall into a statistics bucket. either homicide, accident, natural causes, suicide, or the dreaded undetermined. until then I keep an open mind and let the evidence speak.

statistics cannot solve this case nor can it be considered evidence. it is just a distraction to our discussion, imo.

The bizarre circumstances surrounding CD's death don't neatly fit into any category. This case doesn't remind me of any other homicide or suicide that I'm aware of, and right now there's no "smoking gun" that points definitively to either. IMO

 

[beach]

Thanks, but hmm, this is odd. Not there at all, yet the list is updated enough to have CD's case w/her son listed as verified insider.

I can confirm that ANZAC is a verfied SAR.

I'm going to let the admin who did the verification update the list because I am unsure which category (Animal SAR, SAR management, etc) . I'll notify her.

 

[Starry Night]

Well I think we are here on these boards because we are NOT active, trained LE/Investigators. And we are forming conclusions and theories to fit what evidence we have. I do like to think that posters on WS are unbiased and do their best to stay objective in examining an ongoing case.

 

[UKWend]

This case has me so puzzled. it does not appear to be a logical suicide, but then I guess suicide is never logical for anyone other than the victim.

I just cant bring myself to believe that this is suicide, Im almost wishing its a homicide - and that makes me feel uncomfortable just typing it.

I feel so sad for Cheryls family, it must be so hard not knowing. I hope they get the answers they are looking for one day. Whatever and however this happened, Cheryl seems like a lovely lady who had a lot to live for.

 

[PLT]

Well I think we are here on these boards because we are NOT active, trained LE/Investigators. And we are forming conclusions and theories to fit what evidence we have. I do like to think that posters on WS are unbiased and do their best to stay objective in examining an ongoing case.

Totally agree with you and Lilibet's posts! When I come to these boards, I take the opinions /facts presented by trained LE and SARs at a higher value for the simple reason that I have had zero training except these boards and my own experiences. Most of us who are not in the medical field would not feel comfortable walking into a hospital and performing surgery on a patient just because we read up on it online or know someone who had that particular illness. My job does not involve life/death situations or grieving families but I would hope those that do are thorough in their process and know when to pull in experts if the best knowledge is needed. I feel LE in CD's case must have more than we know to indicate suicide if that's what they will rule or like Steelman had predicted many threads ago - they will decided on "undetermined".

I usually lean towards suicide or accident when I read cases where someone disappears and there is no evidence of foul play.People leaving bars and ending up in rivers, Shane Montgomery, the woman who disappeared on vacation in Scotland (Susan). I may have started out thinking abduction/murder was at hand, but when the evidence appears to show otherwise, I convert especially if the family is accepting. What bugs me with this case is that I want to convert over to the suicide theory because I'd rather hear CD made the decision on her own .....but cannot because there supposedly were no triggers whatsoever. That is the information that I think LE has if they are leaning that way.

Even the fact that CD kept calling JusticeforCheryl about the cat could go either way for me. Maybe she thought the cat would distract her from whatever was bothering especially after vacation when things would go back to normal OR it could indicate that she intended to be around for the cat like she said. If one has a sudden breakdown (emotional or otherwise) and decides to end life that day, I would think it would be in the quickest manner possible. Maybe they'd go off somewhere nice but I would think think final act would be just as sudden as the breakdown and more impulsive requiring less thought /planning.
I would never think of this bag /drowning method unless I had known about it or researched and if CD had then some of her other actions don't fit. Nothing really fits here because I think we are missing a few facts - either the trigger of suicide or the evidence suggesting a second person involved.

 

[Beesknees]

Irks me too, and makes me wonder, why a few people on here are trying SO hard to convince everyone it was suicide when it is such a stretch to do so. It just doesn't add up for suicide, yet there's a pervasiveness to explain it all away with statistics. Statistics can be distorted to suit the situation.

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck... It's most probably a duck. And this duck doesn't look, sound or walk like suicide. If one were to put probabilities on suicide/homicide, what would they be? 50/50, 20/80? 80/20? IMO I'd go with 10/90

For me it would be 0/100 and I'm baffled how can we be here discussing suicide along pages and pages when this lady didn't commit suicide! It screams murder!

M-U-R-D-E-R!!


ETA - It could have been manslaughter followed by an intricate cover up. When I say murder I mean I deeply believe someone killed her.

 

[roro206]

Well I think we are here on these boards because we are NOT active, trained LE/Investigators. And we are forming conclusions and theories to fit what evidence we have. I do like to think that posters on WS are unbiased and do their best to stay objective in examining an ongoing case.

I agree. While appreciating Anzac's verified status and learn from his expertise as SAR, I also keep in mind that he is not an LE or a ME. He is also working with the same set of information that has been given to us. I take his opinions as that just that, his opinions. Just as I would take Stryker's opinions as his own, from that of a grieving family member who has the highest knowledge about CD's personal life than anyone else here.


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[otto]

If Cheryl told the friend to go on without her, and Cheryl also stated she would probably ride home with carpool person, also mentioned that it would take 10 minutes to get yer badge,,,,,
What inspired the carpool person to wait until 730?

If I tell someone that I'm going to be late, and considerately suggest that they go without me, but that person instead says "how much time to you need", that means that person is considering waiting for me. If I say it will take too long, go without me, that's the end of it. If I say I need 10 minutes, that means I'm thankful that they will consider waiting and will take the 10 minutes and ... and then the discussion stopped. There needed to be one more comment to wrap up the discussion, but there wasn't.