Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by bessie, Mar 23, 2016.

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  1. Sun009

    Sun009 New Member

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    I'm looking at details in the numbers in each one that's been given. Times/streets/distances ...
    Would like to know the location of restaurant
    And if it was exactly 151 hours from missing until found?

    We should be close identifying the animal blood, correct?
     


  2. darring21

    darring21 Well-Known Member

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    If she drives straight to the culvert = suicide. If she parks in a place she normally parks when carpooling = suicide. Lack of evidence of murder is not evidence of suicide. It may exist, but I have not yet seen actual evidence of suicide.
     
  3. brandi

    brandi Member

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    Same with lack of evidence of any other person being in the vicinity of this kind lady. Still such a mystery ! RIP Cheryl
     
  4. Beesknees

    Beesknees Member

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    Murder versus Suicide

    We go on discussing if Cheryl's life was finished by murder or suicide and it appears that the LE can't also give a name to her MOD at least until now.

    Some posts ago someone was stating that the ones who think she was killed can't give reasons to support their theory. Many of us can be wrong and I, who strongly believe that Cheryl was killed by someone she knew, may be completely wrong, but it is difficult not to voice my feelings.

    Why do I think this?

    - It is very difficult to have the 'courage' or endurance or whatever is needed to kill one self with a thin plastic bag losely around our head and mainly without drugs in the system, which would at least allow the person to stop breathing without the natural struggle to rip the bag from the head in order to breath and live.

    - Cheryl's phone and purse weren't found, but this doesn't per se mean suicide. Any killer could have got rid of them. The same for the folded glasses. It is called staging a crime scene and we have seen many times how 'creative' killers can be. It has been stated here that she could have hidden the phone and purse not to be identified. Well, a person that doesn't want to be identified doesn't commit suicide so very near the place she lives and the place where she is known for so many years!

    - I still believe the phone texts weren't written by Cheryl and the phone was kept powered on during the exact time to let the carpool know she wasn't going that day. The 'ten minuts' text IMO was the way the killer used to avoid more questions from the carpool person. They couldn't be writing much as the more they wrote the more it could appear it wasn't Cheryl's way of writing. So saying 'ten mins' instead of risking saying 'I will go by bus' for exemple could give the carpool the oportunity to say - 'no, don't go by bus, I will wait', then 'Cheryl had to say something else to answer and so on and so forth and the perp wanted/had to make it quick and short. The phone then was powered down to stop it all and a phone down can be many things - lack of battery, lack of net, etc.

    - Murder or suicide both are awful. I have no words for the pain and dispair any of these manners of death can cause mainly to families and friends of the victims. But, if I could say something was 'preferible' in my point of view, I would say suicide. So, I would rather 'prefer' a loving one to own their life even if it meant to finish it when they felt they couldn't take it anymore than to have it finished violently by the evil hands of others. To have a beloved one killed by the actions of others is IMO the worst thing a family member can endure. So for me suicide is not so much a taboo as it has been referred. Even so, unfortunately I don't think Cheryl had the 'priviledge' to do with her life what she felt like, even if it was to finish it.

    - Last but not least at all, as we have been told by very close family members of Cheryl, she had no health problems either physical or emotional, was fully employed, certainly loved and loving of her family and had no risk factors in her life.

    - I prefer to believe it is murder and be wrong because it doesn't mean that a killer is going scott free than to put weight in the suicide theory (mainly because I don't believe in it) and let a killer be on the lose. Can't stand the thought of someone going free after finishing the life of this lady :snooty:

    I wish so much this case to be solved and justice to be served for Cheryl and for her loved ones...


    Excuse the long post and the language problems. Hope you understand.
     
  5. Mistree

    Mistree Well-Known Member

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    Justiceforcheryl

    Honestly I can't remember if it was Wednesday or Thursday but yes she was still missing. I picked up the cat because he is a shyer and sensitive cat trying to acclimate to what was a very calm and quiet home. The stress of all of the people in and out was too stressful they felt.
    I knew from the beginning something was very very wrong. Like I said, she waited months for this cat because she didn't want to leave him alone while they were gone.
    They still have the boy they got from me about 8 years ago. He is a stunning boy that I told them was so shy that they may never touch him. They got him as a buddy for the first cat. The first night she sent me pictures of him snuggled in bed with them. That's the type of people they were. The police were here and I showed them the raw food and how it can leak. However they picked him and the raw food up in a different car
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-54-Mountlake-Terrace-8-February-2016-6/page8



    Justiceforcheryl


    The cat she got from me didn't like the food I sent apparently. [/COLOR]It's common for cats not to eat the first 24 hours in a new home and in fat kitties this can cause hepatic lipidosis which we talked about the night she took him home. Many commercial raw pet foods are available at local stores. I have a mix of chicken turkey beef and pork made in an 80/10/10 ratio which is "species appropriate diet". I prefer to use the human grade organic grass fed food from the butcher shop. Many of us do that. The butcher stuff does leak easily as I showed the police when they were here. The cat also had a few small matts on his back and a razor blade is a gentle and easy way to get them out. Scissors are more dangerous as you can cut the cat.
    I have a theory based on some things I've read here but she did not kill herself. That I know. I don't care what "proof" they have, I will never believe it. She contacted me almost weekly about getting that cat. She would not get him and then kill herself.
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...54-Mountlake-Terrace-8-February-2016-6/page12
    **************************************************************************************************************************************************************
    Imo, I believe this is what the blood on the floorboard will turn out to be.
    IMO, If the new kitty didn't care for the raw food, I can see Cheryl donating it to one of her cat friends to try.
    IMO I believe she took the food with her on Monday when she disappeared possibly in "a bag" to give to her co-worker cat friend.
    QUESTION,,,,,,
    where is the raw cat food mixture now?
     
  6. Master Gee

    Master Gee New Member

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    Oh I know..and I may be completely wrong (hope so in a way) but lets be honest, we could post a video of the incident and some would claim its doctored, by LE or crooked Fred Hutch people or maybe the rabid raccoon that was placed in her car by a passerby for treatment :)
     
  7. Alohaj

    Alohaj Verified family member - Jason Thompson case

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    In discussion of suicide, it's been discussed that she would maybe have gone to the culvert to delay/prevent being found. (I bet there are some MUCH more difficult areas To have chosen not to be found). Some theories mentioned is To spare her family, or to preserve a life insurance policy. It's also been discussed that she may have carefully planned it out... Having a second method (plastic bag & water as backup). So that being said, would someone with such premeditated planning have a thin plastic bag from a restaurant as their backup? And more importantly, if you were going to test your razor blade method, would you do so in your car (which was in plain view on a street), with the risk of smearing it in/on your car? That would leave evidence, and perhaps hasten discovery of your body? From what many have said and I have read, it does take some effort to defeat the will to breathe while suffocating. Had she practiced or prepared for that? And would you prepare with a thin, restaurant plastic bag. And if it was a spontaneous decision, how would she know the methods to choose and how to defeat the will to breathe? I Say this because I've never ( and doubt I never would) considered suicide,and before reading this post would not have known about plastic bags, taking drugs to defeat the will to breathe, cold water shock and taking a breath in, etc. So in my case, if I hadn't planned it out, and it was a spontaneous decision, I absolutely wouldn't know how to do it. So if it was suicide, she either planned it, or it was spontaneous, right? Suicide isn't accidental, right? (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm truly asking this). I'm pondering all this in a logical way with the evidence that is known. While we can't determine her state of mind with logic, regardless of MOD, evidence can be examined logically, and evidence, in and of itself, cannot lie.

    If being killed without evidence on her body being left is so rare (but let's not forget being in the water, a great way to dilute evidence), isn't suddenly "snapping into craziness (whatever that condition is called) also a bit rare?

    As to her clothes not been to disheveled , how can you be laying in a ditch, with having been rained on, in dirty water all around you & not appear to disheveled? Even a custom-made three-piece suit would look pretty dishevelled at that point.

    I don't know if it was suicide or homicide. Only CD, (if it was suicide), and other parties, (if it was homicide), know this at this time. And As many have mentioned, if there is no clear cut evidence for homicide, and the same is true for suicide, this may well stay undetermined.
     
  8. PLT

    PLT New Member

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    Yep - that was my strong theory in the beginning and now I'm right in the middle and can't offer any more possibilities. I still come back to see if anything is new but may give that up for a bit because like planes in a holding pattern....we are just circling.
     
  9. PLT

    PLT New Member

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    I don' think anyone here has any idea of the restaurant name or location because it has not been make public where the bag originated. Only LE knows and Stryker57.

    It was posted that she was found 12:30 pm on 2/14 - I can not verify that for sure but remember seeing the post.
    Number of Hours missing - this can vary depending on if you use her last text around 7 am or when her husband last saw her - half hour before? What is the significance of 151 hours ?? Sounds like numerology with all the math?
     
  10. ANZAC

    ANZAC Verified SAR

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    If anything leaving the blood in the car (animal blood + her own from cuts not at the time known to be self inflicted) completely changes the search. LE is less likely to do an immediate search with SAR (it isn't clear how safe the immediate scene is, given the blood) and also changes the search parameters/probabilities.

    In my opinion, the animal blood, and possibly CD's blood were an attempt to stage the scene to make it look like she'd been abducted or was in distress. I think you can also argue that just disappearing completely and leaving no trace makes it even harder to locate her (because we may think she is fine and it was a deliberate decision to just walk off), but if someone is committing suicide not all the choices are rational one.

    We got a LOT of cases that are deliberate "dropping out of contact". At the point we locate the person (and that's more LE than SAR, typically) the case is closed providing we are sure they are an adult, healthy and the choice to "run away" is their own. I know I'm arguing against myself a bit here, but I'm trying to give some context. Finding the blood makes it a more urgent search, but will definitely change the scope and nature of the search to some degree.
     
  11. ANZAC

    ANZAC Verified SAR

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    It is extremely rare to find no evidence of another person's involvement in what turns out to be a homicide. There's always some clue or piece of evidence.
    Think about it, wouldn't there be prints on her car?

    Conversely, there is some evidence that points (not conclusively) to suicide. Self inflicted cuts, animal blood in the car (staging IMHO), turning the phone off (the killer had no need to do that, could have left it behind - far more indicative of suicide IMHO), being 1.5 miles from the car, the culvert and bag don't like up clearly with as a homicidal method. I could imagine someone who is 90 being able to be drowned with no marks left by a far stronger attacker, but someone in their 50's, who is fairly mobile is going to be able to put up a decent fight against a very thing bag and someone trying to hold them in the water. Maybe there was some chemical used to knock her out and it didn't show up at the autopsy but that is a pretty slim chance.
     
  12. ANZAC

    ANZAC Verified SAR

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    I've worked on a case that looked about 10x more like murder than this, involving someone with medical/mental conditions, and trust me, there's no rush to assume it is suicide, especially when the family and friends are spoken to. Something usually comes out. Not a lot is made of this but the police do look closely at witnesses and family/friends. (criminal history, motives, relationships etc)

    And for whatever reason, our detectives always seem to get a little less than 100% truth from friends/family even with it is suicide, or even accidental. People feel guilty and try to skip over important details that they think make them look "worse". I don't know why, just human nature. (not suggesting anything specific in this case - just saying that is a headwind the case always has to deal with to some degree.)
     
  13. Beesknees

    Beesknees Member

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    We humans and our human nature are fantastic and at the same time completely puzzling.

    We can go from 'suicide can't, but really can't make any sense at all in this case' and I am certain it couldn't be and wasn't a suicide to 'yes, it is completely possible this was a suicide and all points to that'

    Anyway I have never heard the ones convinced it was a suicide saying 'it can't be a homicide' (perhaps because they are not as 'flippant' as me or are wiser than me...) while I deeply see it can't be a suicide with what we have and what we know about the victim.

    To see here the suicide theory distresses me. Not because I don't respect who thinks so but because I think it is like denying what Cheryl endured that fateful day.

    As if I coulld hear her screaming - No, I didn't kill myself! Someone killed me!'.

    Until further informations about this crime I will refrain from posting. I don't know how her family is able to read here :(
     
  14. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

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    Just checking in for anything new. If Cheryl had received a bad health diagnosis that she had not shared with her family, this would have shown up on the autopsy. Stryker57 has not mentioned one word regarding this, therefore, I feel sure it is not applicable to Cheryl's death. JMO.
     
  15. Beesknees

    Beesknees Member

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    Off topic -

    I don't know about you but I feel dizzy (like seasick :sick: ) and my eyes are almost crossed with the new design and colors here :tipsy:

    Can't find things and get confused :confused:

    I hope it is only because I am not used to it :dunno:
     
  16. Pseudonymph

    Pseudonymph Well-Known Member

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    Autopsies don't check for every known condition.
     
  17. OC Sunshine

    OC Sunshine Member

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    It's hard for me also to focus my eyes with the blue and black text all over the place. But I sure love it here....and really like the photo visuals.
     
  18. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    I'm curious about what you come up with in terms of numerology. From 7AM Feb 8 to 12:30 Feb 14 is 125.5 hours.
     
  19. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

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    If one had been diagnosed with a life threatening disease serious enough to cause Cheryl to commit suicide, are the most common diseases at her age not checked for? I am assuming that once it was determined that suffocating and drowning were the causes of death, nothing else would be looked for.

    On one hand, this makes perfect sense, but on the other hand, if this was suicide, we will never know if a health problem existed which she had not sheared with her family. Using "we" as a figure of speech only.
     
  20. eucalyptuz

    eucalyptuz Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Some very direct, pointed questions have been forwarded to Stryker and other insiders (verified and otherwise) - some have been answered with detail and emphasis, others have passed by without response or answers that may be construed to be ambiguous. I think that is either because family members and friends don't know the answer OR don't want the die to be cast in any one direction because of a small item that may be a co-incidence or unrelated. ie: many have asked if Cheryl had any past experience with the culvert or immediate environment. (I don't think this question has been answered specifically but a history of attending schools in the area is known = broadly the SE corner of MLT.)

    If ever I should disappear (touch wood), the police would be kept busy for months analyzing my computer use and search histories and some people would be aghast at the strange places a part-time sleuther goes. Oh, and plus I have seen a therapist, plus I have used a anti-depressant in the past, plus I've definitely cried in the last few months... but with you all as my witnesses...I have only thought about suicide in abstract terms.
    BUT because of watching the cases fly by on here, seeing what grabs media and the public's attention, I think I would advise any person with a missing family member, not to come forward with a history of mental illness, instability, promiscuity, infidelity, professional woes etc. Right or wrong, I think such statements are "game changers" in terms of missing person cases and how they are responded to by LE, media, the general public and, of course, WSers.
     
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