WA WA - Elma, AsianFem 25-40, 330UFWA, Sz6 pearl Avon ring, gold earring w/5 blue sapphires, Oct'88

help me figure out what these terms mean from doe case118uffl

cervical rib?
sacralized vertabrae?
Wormian bone?
Schmorl's nodes?
carabelli's cusp (dental)

and why the hell no NCIC ?

what ya think? anybody?
kk
 
here's a couple images of area where Lady Elma was found.

The wooded are just aobve Elma and Satsop is the property where the logging roads are entwined. It just gives an idea of layout and general surroundings.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elma,...l=47.045797,-123.395691&spn=0.191835,0.541077
the green arrow is downtown Elma. to the west is a road that runs north off county road thru Elma. Its called Middle Satsop rd. the next image is an aerial from the USGS website from 1990 i think. It's a cool site. you cn look up your neighbor hood and see the tops of your houses in some of these.
http://edcsns17.cr.usgs.gov/finder/doq_finder_map.pl?
kk
 
sorry for my mouth. i'll try to get the second link again. if you go to USGS and type in 98541 into zipcode box it'll pull up these images.

kk
 
Yes, I think she might look a lot like her. I went back to look at her pic I posted and it's gone! The link is there but it doesn't show up on the post anymore :( Elma's eyes were further up on her head but I think that was an error by the artist, although I dont' see how unless her chin bone ws gone.

Scandi
 
how much of the lower mandible was found, ccm?
i noticed the artist distinctly made the lower jaw angled . Did she have bone to work with here?
kk
 
Here she is again:

330UFWA.jpg
 
wannabesleuthkk said:
how much of the lower mandible was found, ccm?
i noticed the artist distinctly made the lower jaw angled . Did she have bone to work with here?
kk
It was broken right in the middle.
 
is this the perimortem injury?

sure wish we could find one of Elma's relatives. wonder what her family tree looks like.....
kk
 
wannabesleuthkk said:
good work OODles.
thanks
kk
Thanks! :)

Did with what I could find on the Doe Network- found a potential match for Elma quite fast- but I'll still look on other pages and I'm still working on Lyle though because I still can't find a potential match for him
 
Hi Everyone,

I assume the lower mandible is the chin bone that hooks at the joint in front of the ear. Boy, to make it crack straight up through what would be the cleft of her chin, would that take a hit straight on at that spot? Maybe we can learn more about this killer by what happened to her body. If he held the gun sideways and hit her with the straight part of the handle straight in the middle of her chin, would it tell you anything about him? I watch only the finest crime shows on TV - they're damn good ones. And often I see detectives do this, replaying a scene and sometimes an answer comes to them like a bolt out of the blue. Maybe that can be done here too.

From a layman's opinion there are two advantages we have here that I see. The body wasn't moved except for critter activity from death till she was found, and also that skull cracked in two, that should tell a lot. The force that was used to crack the bone, the angle from which the skull was struck being upwards, downwards, straight in to do it, the number of hits, whether one two or three and the angle of the bullet. And I would think that would give an investigator a very good idea as to the width of the but of the gun if that is the weapon considered.

You could determine the killers height and weight for sure I would think! If she was with an Ortiental man, often they are short and chunky.
That is why his height and weight are important IMHO. We automaticly picture a tall skinny man leading her down into those woods. Maybe t'aint so!

Stretching, right? :eek: Just trying to get a different angle on it. There is something here, I just know it.

But I keep going back to the earing. It might have a bit of Karmatic Justice that let that one earing stay in place to fall on the ground on it's own and be found by such a dedicated investigator, instead of being knawed off by a big male coyote I do believe in that.

Sometimes things happen that we don't realize at the time, but are Godsends to help us. I've seen these things happen so often after 3 years of Sleuthing.

There must be a way to track this earing. If a pair would sell for $200, there has to be a way to find this out.


Scandi

PS: You guys are so great to work with, all of you. Some I miss like efxdavid who don't come around very much :boohoo: Oops!~ Forgot he's on Lyle's case. LOL :banghead: :rolleyes:
 
one reason i asked about cutting marks.
fractured jaw doesn't necessarily mean he punched her or coldcocked her with the butt. I just wanted to see if he used a blade or hatchet, machete.....

second, this ain't crossing jordan sweetie. wish it was. that's why i like images. of everything. i replay it in my mind.

don't assume either she wasn't moved except for the animals snacking.
we don't know that. He could have dropped her 20ft away and drug her under pile of logs. Anything's possible. But i like your line of thinking.
It's sort of profiling. him and the scene.

be back
kk
 
Ya Ya, but I think the idea I had was no one except the killer touched her until she was found. Did we learn if they found any of her DNA on that shirt.
There could have been a hair on the inside of the shirt. Ripped off and thrown though, pretty sure it was hers, don't cha think?

But now I know what CCM meant when he said once he ID's her then he'll find the killer with no problemo's. He probably has a picture of the guy in his mind just from the way she was murdered.

Great work Outofthedark, I think you're right and Cheri is perfect. I also noted Naoka Onda, a Japanese gal who looks a lot like Elma too, same weight and height and the one beneath her, Catherine Clampett. All could be her if they were ever known to have ties to the NW or been here. Oh, and do you know if the serial killer John Edward Robinson was ever in Washington?

Possibilities abound! Lovin it. YaYa Scandi
 
Scandi i imagine if our fearless leader says its hers, he'd probably be able to back up his words.
That reminds me...
the cuffs.
i wanted to know if the cuffs on the shirt/jacket were buttoned or unbuttoned? youknow how ya try to pull off a shirt and you peel it off and your wrists get stuck?
I'm just trying to picture her peeling off inside out and a stopped to unbutton the sleeves it shows it wasn't done fast. unless she's one of those people that leave their sleeves dangling open. (that's so annoying to me)
just a thot.
i checked out a little of the mailorder bride scene and got too many disturbing images for one day. THere's a lot of mags and sites devoted to finding young asian girls for pleasure and it creeped me out for a min.
and i don't creep easily. i lived in NYC, i've seen it all. This rings more of a local domestic drama to me so far. but i keep following up on all the weird stuff my brain pitches me. just in case.
(you shoulda seen what i got when i googled egyptian men. wow)
kk
 
outofthedark said:
Missing Native and Asian Women between 1982-1988
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/913dfca.html (Looks most like Elma)
I remember taking a hard look at her. I recall I excluded her for some reason, but I'll have to dig through my file at the Sheriffs Office to be sure. Most of the other women are too tall. My girl is tiny 4-11 or 5-0 about.
 
ccm, have you looked at any pics of asian women that ring true for you?
and does that mean you might go to SO to get that file of yours?
could you also check to see if there are other pics of earring that we could see, please? maybe a photo of skull fragments? if you can't i understand. you know me and my imagery.
thanks,
kk
 

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