Discussion in '2000's Missing' started by christine2448, Mar 6, 2008.
Continue here please.
Link to 1st Discussion Thread
What strikes me is the centrality of the MTG game to the case. It is why Joe had his freinds over that night, it was the subject of his last known phone conversation, and of course those rare cards were among the items that went missing with Joe. What happened "in game?" Sometimes the world of make-believe and fantasy can become tragically real.
"Columbine High School sophomore Jason Jones observed the Trench Coat Mafia playing 'magic' cards in the cafeteria, which were about the devil and about power."
(pg1474 of the Jefferson County(CO) evidence release)
Joe Pichler has been missing from Bremerton, Washington since January 3rd, 2006. The night Joe Pichler was last seen he was entertaining four friends at his apartment on 2000 Magnuson Way. At approx 2:30 am, he allegedly dropped his friend Kelly off at her house and then dropped his friend Justin off at an apartment Justin shared with Jesse at Jesse’s parents’ home. The other two friends, Kyle and Nicole, allegedly drove themselves home. At approx 4:08 am, Joe’s cell phone was used to call his friend Justin.
On January 4th, 2006 at approx 7:00 pm, Joe Pichler’s mother, Kathy Pichler, sent her son, AJ, to check on Joe. Joe’s apartment was unlocked and the lights were on. AJ waited for almost an hour then he turned off the lights and locked the door. On January 5th, 2006 at approx 8:00 am, Kathy Pichler went to the apartment on Magnuson Way herself. She immediately reported to the police her son was missing. She went to Discordia game, where Joe worked. They reported he did not show up for work the previous night. Kathy called AJ and asked his help with the search. AJ called Justin for help. Justin immediately came to the Pichler home. AJ said Justin took several turns and seemed to drive straight to Joe’s car which had been abandoned behind a restaurant at 2805 Wheaton Way.
When the police arrived, they found a poem among the belongings in Joe Pichler’s car. The police read the poem allowed and declared it was a suicide note. They immediately released the car to the family without any processing. Detective Davis told Kathy Pichler, Joe probably jumped from a nearby bridge and his body would float up in a few months. The police then went to Joe’s apartment where Joe’s sister, Shawna, walked with them through the apartment. Shawna reported the search was no more than 3 minutes. The police reported the apartment was fine.
This information was reported by almost every news source in America.
Now, the rest of the story…
Joe’s uncle drove Joe’s car to the Pichler home. When they got there, the family noticed vomit in the floorboard of the car on the passenger side. The family also noticed Magic The Gathering cards were strung out all over the car and the most valuable ones were all missing. They reported this to the Bremerton Police. This information as of 1/25/08 had still not reached the police report although the family told them about it many many times. The car set in the driveway for almost a year undriven. The vomit was never tested for DNA. Finally, the family gave up on the police and began to drive the car. When the Pichlers’ went to Joe’s apartment on 1/6/06, they found that it also had been robbed as well. Joe's remaining Magic The Gathering cards were thrown around over his bedroom closet. They reported this information to the police too. The information never made the police report and the apartment was never processed for blood or fingerprint evidence. The remaining cards were never tested for fingerprints or DNA as well.
The last place Joe was seen alive with Jesse’s parent home. Alledgedly Jesse admitted seeing Joe in the home, but his story changed several times on exactly how and when it happened. Jesse’s home was never checked by the Bremerton Police. Detective Davis stated many times in the newspapers that the Bremerton Police had done all they could do on this case.
In May 2006, five months after Joe’s car was found on 1/5/06, after the public reading of the poem, Justin announced it was not a suicide note. He and Joe had written “the poem” together. The Bremerton Police changed their conclusions on the case as missing endangered teen. The Bremerton Police had reported suicide to the FBI. At what point this was corrected is still not clear.
Several months after Joe disappeared, Joe’s ex-girlfriend, Cammie, came to visit Kathy Pichler. She accidently told Kathy that Cammie and another friend had gone to Joe’s car behind the restaurant to remove any items that might embarrass the family, but the police had already found it. Kathy asked Cammie how she knew where the car was and she wouldn’t respond. Cammie also admitted to having a 2nd set of keys to Joe’s car.
In June 2006, six months after Joe disappeared; the Bremerton Police Department took pictures of Joe’s car.
In December 2007, several independent investigators reviewed a MySpace account that Cammie created and which was not Joe’s but claimed to be Joe’s. All of the people last seen with Joe would send messages to it before and after Joe disappeared, but Joe didn’t send any messages. One of the messages was dated 1/3/06 at 7:03pm from Kelly to another friend claiming she was worried about going to Joe’s because the friends were planning something and they were being sketchy and weird. As of 1/25/08, Kelly has never been asked to explain this message.
As of 1/25/08, The Bremerton Police have never obtained a warrant to retrieve the private MySpace messages from the people last seen with Joe Pichler. They have never retrieved the cell phone records/messages/towers from the people last seen with Joe Pichler. The Bremerton Police told the Pichler family that if Joe hadn’t committed suicide then he was in the Witness Protection Program and they couldn’t talk about it.
In December 2007, the police still had only interviewed Justin. Cammie, Kyle, Nicole, Jesse, and Kelly all admitted seeing him on 1/3/006. They had not been interviewed and none of these people had been asked for polygraphs at this point.
An FBI agent in Washington DC stated that the FBI would help on missing person cases if it strongly looked like murder and the case was flagrantly mishandled. According to the FBI, flagrantly mishandled is when all the people last seen with a missing person are not interviewed and asked for polygraphs. All evidence in the case was not processed.
On January 3rd, 2008, the Bremerton Police announced they were given Joe Pichler’s case renewed vigor. Since that date they have re-interview Justin, tried to setup interviews with the other "friends", which have been repeatedly rescheduled by some of the "friends" or the police have not scheduled an interview at all. On January 25th, 2008, the Bremerton Police brought the Pichler family into the police station to talk about the case. They tried to convince the family there was no vomit in the car. The Bremerton Police also tried to convince the family the pictures the police took in June 2006 were actually taken on 1/5/06.
The Bremeton police told the Pichlers the cell phone records were all gone. But Cingular, Sprint, Quest, and Verizon say they keep cell phone records for 5 years minimum.
The Bremerton police told the Pichlers there wasn't probable cause to get the cell phone records of the friends.
Here is probable cause...
1) When Kathy Pichler said Cammie told her, that Cammie knew where the abandoned car was before the family and the police did. She went to the car to try to remove embarrassing things to the family from it. It was already a crime scene and to remove evidence would be against the law so how did Cammie know where the abandoned car was of a missing person? Where was she when Joe disappeared? To verify where Cammie was on 1/4 and who she talked to is probable cause to get her cell phone records. She said 'we' went to the scene. This would mean she had a partner and it would be probable cause of the same reason for her partner's records as well.
2) When Kelly admitted to Leesh on 1/3/06 at 7:03pm on MySpace that she was worried about going to Joe's that the friends were planning something and being sketchy and weird. Kellys admission that there was a plan that made her nervous amongst the people who were last seen with a missing person. To verify where these friends were during the timeframe of the disappearance is probable cause as well. And it's grounds to get every one of the friends cell phone records, because Kelly wasn't specific to one friend. She said 'people".
Please we want the police to process the evidence on this case.
Look this isn't personal. Let's dont make it that way. I am trying to help the family and yes sadly I am all they have. I am here only to provide facts, but without me this case wouldn't even be relooked at all. :crazy: Believe was very quick to dump Joe's case completely earlier today, so you see the problems the Pichler family has with LE are much the same. No one really cares that Joe is gone and that no one is investigating, but his family and me, we care.
Nothing of Joe's was gone but the cards. Favorite everything was still there. Joe, clothes he had on, wallet, and car keys.
Please let me know if there any more factual answers I can give.
I really don't want to get personal. I just want to give you the information I was given about Joe missing. If anyone cares, it would be nice for them to write LE or the media and ask that the people last seen with Joe be interviewed and asked for polygraphs.
This is the disctrict attorney's office in Kitsap county
firstname.lastname@example.org <email@example.com>; firstname.lastname@example.org <email@example.com>; firstname.lastname@example.org <email@example.com>
Maybe we could add these people to our email list...
This is Joe's case #
Report #B06000286 Joe Pichler
This is the letter I wrote them.
Dear Mr. Hauge,
Joe Pichler has been gone since January 3, 2006. His case is classified as 'endangered missing teen'.
Joe's car was robbed and his apartment was robbed on 1/3/06. Joe is gone and has not been seen since 1/3/06.
New evidence has been discovered on MySpace that one of the people at Joe's house the night of 1/3/06 knew
of a plan among the people going there that night. A plan that made her nervous, people were being weird
and sketchy, and she didn't want to go to Joe's, but she went anyway.
Now Joe is gone and has been gone for 2 years. He was never seen again after that night.
We believe his case is an 'abduction' or 'suspected foul play', but the case escalated from 'endangered missing
teen' to a criminal offense when Joe was robbed and evidence of 'a plan' surfaced on MySpace prior to his disappearance.
Please help us change Joe's case or do what you can to help get this changed. Joe's case # is B06000286.
Joe Pichler is a high profile case. He was a child actor and his case has been receiving a lot of attention in the
last few months.
We have spoken to Detective Krane and Detective Davis from the Bremerton Police Dept. Many other detectives in the US have also spoken to Detective Krane and Davis without success. Many concerned citizens have also called the Bremerton Police Dept. Please help us get this case reclassified so that this case can get the attention it deserves.
Update: I added SAG to the list of news media and LE we need to email:
firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; 60II@cbsnews.com ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; Special@foxnews.com ; Foxreport@foxnews.com ; Oreilly@foxnews.com ; Hannity@foxnews.com ; Colmes@foxnews.com ; Ontherecord@foxnews.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ;firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org;email@example.com;mailto;ElRushbo@eibnet.com;
The Joe Pichler family website is www.joepichlermissing.com
This website is in the process of being updated with the correct dates and location of the car. 2805 Wheaton Way.
Oh, Kathy said that it was very unusual for Justin to invite Joe to spend the night at his house as Justin alledgedly said he did on 1/3/06.
Again though Sharon, What is that going to do? They were Minors at the time, they can't be ordered to be polygraphed w/o a warrant/charges being filed. And honestly? Does Bremerton even have the resources to haul all these people in, hire the experts to adminster the polygraph etc...Who's going to pay those bills?
And go on this tangent, say all this does occur, and they all pass their polygraphs...What happens next?
IE - Some of us are trying to think outside the box, but for some reason, you're focused on your belief that Joe is dead. I'm confused, One moment you are telling posters to pass out fliers and get his name/picture out there, but then you've stated on a couple of different postings that he is dead. And when we post follow up that - that it is NOT necessarily true, you state anyone after 2 years statistically is dead. What about the missing people and children that do show up? As you put it, should people just "give up" because of what YOUR husband states is a statistic? Again I'm confused, you stated that Bremerton is wrong for assuming that there's nothing more they can do, that he's in the water somewhere etc, but then state your own husband agrees with that...That defeats the whole purpose of what some of us do. Prime example Meredith Emerson (there is a thread/forum regarding her disappearance here if you'd care to indulge into the details it's called "Gary Michael Hilton" and then you'll see all about Meredith - People thought she was dead, several of us thought otherwise, and after her murderer was apprehended, it turned out she had been alive most of the time the searches were ongoing for her. So why are we wrong to assume that he's alive?) Please help to clarify?
IMO it almost seems you're on a personal crusade against these kids he was with. As you stated he has money, and he has friends, so WHY was he out with these people if he didn't have something in common with them or even a basic friendship. He is obviously smart, and Kathy didn't raise a silly boy, again, WHY would he be out with them if he was fearful or thought something was amiss. These kids he was with, probably do have some nervousness, heck, if you were with someone of Joe's magnitude, and then he is missing, you were supposedly the last persons seen with them, Wouldn't you be nervous too? Knowing your name is plastered all over the media and the internet?
Again, I ask, Why is it so far fetched to believe that he may have gone off to find himself, do whatever etc, maybe his friends helped him "disappear" and that was "the plan". His mom states on her website for him that He wasn't happy about coming home, but he did it, and that acting was something he needed to do to fulfill his soul. He was an 18 year old boy at the time of his disappearance. "teens" even smart ones, do things spur of the moment. Look at any of the threads on websleuths and you'll see that for youself, heck, you'll see all ages doing it. Sometimes it's good things, sometimes it's bad things. I'm just confused as to what it is you have against these kids, and why again, you're so sure he's dead...
I know Believe and I know her dedication to the cases she works upon, I never seen her giving up, so please don't put her name out there negatively when that was never, ever the case.
:waitasec: I would think it was about the game that night 1/3/06, but Kelly specified a premeditated plan on 1/3/06 at 7:03pm prior to going to Joe's. It could have been the results of a game another night, but as you can see from reading MySpace that Joe didn't hang around these people normally. They had to beg for him to get together with them this night.
Ya' ever hear of a guy named Thomas Wales? He was the US Attorney(Justice Department) for the Seattle area when he was shot twice through his living room window a month after 911. It took the FBI a whopping five years to come out with a composite sketch of their suspect. Another one of his successors was fired by Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez. According to the DA, he was fired because he was too diligent in pursuing the murder investigation.
Look, the gub'mint don't care what you or I want. If the cops don't want to pursue it, they aren't going to pursue it. I think if the family wants answers, they should do their own investigation. Start with filing FOIA requests and open-records requests with every relevant local, state, and federal agency.
If there is one question I want answered, it's that bit about court-ordered counseling. If Joe did have a shrink, I would focus like a laser beam in that direction.
There was no court ordered counseling. Joe had a party at his house that summer. It got too loud. Someone called the police. There was beer there and only beer. Joe got a ticket, which he was paying. No court ordered counseling.
:waving white flag:
Maybe we can go back to the goal of getting a search done in the area for Joe, and work backwards from there. If anything is found, that will be reason enough for them to investigate. And, maybe some of us could look into finding him if he is out there "finding himself." If we don't find him, it will be somewhat ruled out, and if we do, wonderful!
I agree that the family should be looking into hiring a good pi and a good lawyer. Kathy sees WS and does the rest of Joe's family. But from the stress I have endured for fighting for why Joe is not just a runaway and why his case needs to be investigated, you can see why they shy away from direct contact with the forum. They are fighting to find their son not arguing about why he is gone. They have gone to City Counsel meetings, tried to meet with the mayor, the chief of police, the state police and the FBI. They have written every media outlet they could think of and are constant champions for Hopeseek, Doe Network and NCMEC.
They contacted TES and GSSD. Are they any other good ideas about search organizations?
Other friends have told me that are still putting out posters every weekend and will this weekend as well in the Bremerton area.
Bremerton is reviewing Joe's case status and hopefully we will know more about that very soon too.
We went over this yesterday though..In the first thread post number 78 You stated that 2 years ago they were all minors.
Sharon999 vbmenu_register("postmenu_1996819", true);
Join Date: Oct 2007
I know the names, and since the friends didn't seem to be keeping their identity secret at the candlelight vigil I guess they don't care if I mention their names. They made a big deal of getting pictures taken on the bridge and dropping flowers in the water. Just the five of them made this weird procession to the bridge. I guess its ok to tell you. 2 years ago they were minors, but now they aren't. I want to make it clear though that they were the last to see Joe alive according to the police report and the family. Thats all we know. I'm not accusing them of anything. They just haven't been cooperative with the police. Most have refused to come in for interviews.
***end of quote****
First you state you're not accusing them of anything, but over the course of this thread you've implicated them in, conspiracy, theft, basically murder, concealing a body, and kidnapping. Pretty heavy charges...Sharon, do you understand what could happen if these kids (now adults) or their legal reps/parents were to get ahold of what you are posting about them..Unfounded? (I state unfounded because LE has not pursued this) Here though in your post you state that the myspace messages aren't anything more than what normal teenagers post -
Sharon999 vbmenu_register("postmenu_1840821", true);
Join Date: Oct 2007
His myspace account is pretty normal for a teenager unfortunately. I don't think its any worse than a lot of the crowd in the big high schools.
**End of quote** Which one is it? They're admitting to crime or it's not different than any other person's myspace page?
Second - you stated joe has plenty of money. Why was he making payments on a ticket? I would think that he, his agent, or his family would have hired a lawyer, to take it under advisement and have it NOT appear on his record, pay the fine and get it over with....so that it didn't follow him while he tried to revamp his career....
Let's see... The Bremerton Police Dept told the family the kids were minors. But upon further investigation they were not. The family believed them.
I didn't think Joe's MySpace was that bad until I found out what the pictures that MySpace took off were from a Sheriff in Oregon. And Kathy Pichler told me who created it and why they created it, and she said Joe never used it... When I first saw it, I didn't think it was that bad. You should see what Cammie put on there, that MySpace took off!!!! YIKES.
Joe did have money. I don't know why he didn't pay the ticket in full. I will ask his mother, but she is in a conference now.
Gosh. I am learning about Joe's case every day too. I can only give you the information as I get it. I still have questions too.:crazy:
That quote about the minors wasn't yesterday. I have known for several weeks they weren't minors and stated so. I had to investigate what the police said as I have had to on everything they said.
I am not accusing these young adults of anything (they were not all minors like the police said, only Kelly and Jesse and they weren't when Joe's case was changed to 'endangered missing teen' in May 06.). I am saying Joe was robbed, there are indications of a plan on MySpace prior to his disappearance and Joe is gone. The people last seen with him, who claim who be his friends are not cooperating with the police.
Even if they were minors. Why wouldn't they want to cooperate with the police and help their missing friend?
I don't know what happened to Joe. If it looks like I am accusing the friends, then thats just because they look guilty. But I am not. I just want them to cooperate (which they haven't done in 2 years, 2 months) and the evidence to be processed (apartment, Dickson house, car, cards,etc...).
Kelly was 17 when Joe disappeared by turned 18 within a few months after that. Cammie, Nicole, Kyle, and Justin were all 18. From what I can find, Jesse D was 17, but he wasn't even supposed to be at Joe's house.
They all turned 18 within several months of Joe's disappearance. They are 19 and 20 years old now.
Sharon999 vbmenu_register("postmenu_2025004", true);
Join Date: Oct 2007
The police need probable cause to test the apartment, the car, and the Dickson house. Here is is....
Joe has been missing for two years and the last place he was seen alive was at the Dickson's house or at his apartment. Joe's apartment was robbed and so was his car. This is probable cause to test Joe's car and his apartment, as well as the Dickson house, for blood evidence.
Jesse Dickson and Justin Gilbert say Joe was last seen at their house on 3249 Appaloosa Way. Joe was last seen, alive, at their house. This is probable cause to test their house for evidence of foul play.
you've posted these people's addresses, Full names, and that they should be looked at for Foul play (direct quote from you above) Which one is this...You're advocating for the family OR (as you've stated in your beginning posts - that you're just investigating the case?
Is your goal to bring Joe home or to punish these people for being with him the last time he was seen?
Given that they were the last to see Joe alive, I believe the family has a right to know their version of events. Questions have been raised. Questions should be answered. Let them come here onto this forum and tell us what they know.
Separate names with a comma.