WA WA - Laura Macke, Hiking Alone @ Enchanted Valley, Camping at Pyrites Creek, 30. Oct 2022

[RickshawFan]

No, not oxygen. Air. Just normal air.
(If you breathe pure 100% oxygen underwater it is toxic. You get CNS oxygen toxicity and will have convulsions.)

But yes, I've had all sorts of trips rained off, cancelled, adjusted etc. for all manner of reasons. But I just find something else to do. I'm flexible.

But if you're hiking by yourself, it's only you yourself that can call the trip off. And some people find that hard to do....or they may think the rain will stop, or it'll blow over and be OK.

Lol on my scuba error, which I know absolutely nothing about.

 

[RickshawFan]

Well, I wouldn't..... but I'm quite happy to change my mind and cancel my plans. I go with the flow.
Some people however, don't like doing that. They've made the effort to plans and arrange the trip, driven all the way to the location and don't want a bit of weather to ruin it.

Plus the thought of having to go home and wait another 8 months until the winter/spring has gone until you can do the hike again wouldn't appeal to some either.

MOO.

I agree, but hikers have to be flexible and to know weather in order to be safe. The PNW weather “comes in” in late October. And Quinault is a rainforest. It is how it is. You don’t plan a backpack there in that season.

Likewise, you don’t plan a backpack near Phoenix in midsummer or Florida during Hurricane Nicole (which is about what they get in WA on that coast).

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm wondering if this is a situation like that one older woman, who wandered off from her route to pee and then died of exposure? (Can't find her name, but very sad situation).

That was Geraldine Largay. The conditions during GL’s hike, though, were summer and benign. She died of starvation, not hypothermia (she had the right gear for the conditions). And there’s a lot of backstory. RIP

Dying of exposure (aka hypothermia) is a frequent cause for missing hikers. I’m thinking in this case it happened before the first night and within hours of leaving the trailhead. The conditions were such it was almost inevitable.

See my post ^^^^ on what hypothermia looks and feels like. How fast it can come on. And the person in that article was experienced: they were well-equipped for the weather and conditions and they knew how to handle it. That person had 2 changes of clothes and hot drinks and the dry space of the car and a car heater to warm up in. Their friend knew how to handle the situation. This is from experience.

The person in that story was a Mountaineer (probably the most famous and rigorous hiking organization in the US). That’s how they knew what they knew, had required items in their packs, etc. Now, the Mountaineer group they were with behaved very problematically. But see how they got called out afterwards by the organization and got embarrassed? They won’t ever do that again. They now have experience in what the outcome could be.

From family, none of these elements were in place when LM left her car and stepped on the trail in a cold deluge in a part of the US she had no history in. This was never going to be safe. No place, actually, not just this one.

IMO stepping a bunch of miles (e.g. on the Long Trail) is not “experience”: the challenge for doing a bunch of miles is more like persuading yourself to put one foot in front of the other. Many of us do this every day trying to get to 10,000 steps. Every doggone-it day.

Experience is having a bank of decisionmaking; you get it from yourself in comparable environments, and you get it from skilled others who’ve had solutions to problems you might encounter. It’s also about having the supplies you need for the situation.

You could do the whole AT and have no significant “experience”. You just put one foot in front of the other. You hang out in a shelter or go to town when the weather gets bad. Walmarts and sandwich shops. That’s why you can get 2 thru hikers almost getting themselves killed on Lafayette even though they’d been on the AT for 4 months. They had neither experience, skill, nor equipment, but they thought they did. They were focused on “ounce counting”.
NH considered fining those 2 hikers for being unprepared. They’ve been fining people all this summer.

IMO no one on this thread would set out in a cold deluge to get their 10,000 steps done. Am I correct? Even if it means pacing up and down your house at 11 pm to 12 to finish the rings on your Applewatch?

IMO

PS I beg you, if you can, to rack up experience with a group like the Mountaineers. You will learn so much even on one hike, because you will see decisionmaking in action from somewhere that’s not your own echo in your own head. For starters, their requirements for daypack contents likely exceed anything anyone carries while long-distancing hiking in VT.

 

[Skigirl]

That was Geraldine Largay. The conditions during GL’s hike, though, were summer and benign. She died of starvation, not hypothermia (she had the right gear for the conditions). And there’s a lot of backstory. RIP

Dying of exposure (aka hypothermia) is a frequent cause for missing hikers. I’m thinking in this case it happened before the first night and within hours of leaving the trailhead. The conditions were such it was almost inevitable.

See my post ^^^^ on what hypothermia looks and feels like. How fast it can come on. And the person in that article was experienced: they were well-equipped for the weather and conditions and they knew how to handle it. That person had 2 changes of clothes and hot drinks and the dry space of the car and a car heater to warm up in. Their friend knew how to handle the situation. This is from experience.

The person in that story was a Mountaineer (probably the most famous and rigorous hiking organization in the US). That’s how they knew what they knew, had required items in their packs, etc. Now, the Mountaineer group they were with behaved very problematically. But see how they got called out afterwards by the organization and got embarrassed? They won’t ever do that again. They now have experience in what the outcome could be.

From family, none of these elements were in place when LM left her car and stepped on the trail in a cold deluge in a part of the US she had no history in. This was never going to be safe. No place, actually, not just this one.

IMO stepping a bunch of miles (e.g. on the Long Trail) is not “experience”: the challenge for doing a bunch of miles is more like persuading yourself to put one foot in front of the other. Many of us do this every day trying to get to 10,000 steps. Every doggone-it day.

Experience is having a bank of decisionmaking; you get it from yourself in comparable environments, and you get it from skilled others who’ve had solutions to problems you might encounter. It’s also about having the supplies you need for the situation.

You could do the whole AT and have no significant “experience”. You just put one foot in front of the other. You hang out in a shelter or go to town when the weather gets bad. Walmarts and sandwich shops. That’s why you can get 2 thru hikers almost getting themselves killed on Lafayette even though they’d been on the AT for 4 months. They had neither experience, skill, nor equipment, but they thought they did. They were focused on “ounce counting”.
NH considered fining those 2 hikers for being unprepared. They’ve been fining people all this summer.

IMO no one on this thread would set out in a cold deluge to get their 10,000 steps done. Am I correct? Even if it means pacing up and down your house at 11 pm to 12 to finish the rings on your Applewatch?

IMO

PS I beg you, if you can, to rack up experience with a group like the Mountaineers. You will learn so much even on one hike, because you will see decisionmaking in action from somewhere that’s not your own echo in your own head. For starters, their requirements for daypack contents likely exceed anything anyone carries while long-distancing hiking in VT.

I think maybe I should stay on my wimpy East coast hikes after reading all this.

On another note, how does a drone work in woodsy conditions, can it maneuver around trees, does it stay high in the air? I'm kind of amazed that they found one of her items that way (if that's how it was found). Did it just follow the open space above the river and scan around?

 

[fridaybaker]

Wow Rickshaw. That’s a great description of “experience” and something I’ve sort of come to conclude myself after reading so many accounts of rescues. “Miles” are just miles, but it’s stunning how many people lack basic knowledge of survival skills and do so little preparation. And rely on cell phones in the backcountry!

I’ve been reading more on G. Largay and was shocked to learn that she: was afraid to be alone; afraid of the dark; had little “sense of direction”; didn’t know how to use a compass; left her PLB behind in a motel room (why bring it on the trip if you’re not going to use it? Did she just forget it?) At 66 years old and dependent on medication, decided to hike alone, and carried little backup food/gear, etc. I’ve seen articles that have described her as “experienced”, but all of the above connotes very little experience.

So sad, though, to learn you think Laura is not alive. To die alone, cold and wet, seems like an awful way to go.

 

[Charlot123]

I hope that whatever happened to Laura, her relatives will find her, to get a closure. (A note to myself: my "hiking" places are "stone jungles" in big cities, but in the unlikely event I am pushed to hike, never, ever do it alone).

 

[deadfoot13]

Let me say something about whistles to keep everyone safe.

Check your pack. Look at the sternum (chest) strap. Look very closely at the buckle. It's very possible it has an integrated whistle. If you have an accident, it will be practically at your chin.

It looks like this:

View attachment 379207

I learn a ton from the folks on WS, but this is most definitely the cherry on top. I think you made my entire year!

 

[GraceG]

I think maybe I should stay on my wimpy East coast hikes after reading all this.

On another note, how does a drone work in woodsy conditions, can it maneuver around trees, does it stay high in the air? I'm kind of amazed that they found one of her items that way (if that's how it was found). Did it just follow the open space above the river and scan around?

In answer to your question - drone operations are not allowed in National Parks (which I'm pretty sure from reading is where she went missing) without a Special Use Permit (hard to get, but not as hard for SAR operations) But the operation must STILL be line of sight, so maneuvering around trees at lower altitudes would be hard to do and maintain visual on the drone. Here's an article on SAR and drones.

Drones for Search and Rescue Operations | SAR Drones

Search and rescue drones provide unique capabilities to responders in assessing a disaster situation and find people in distress through proactive measures.

www.flytnow.com

 

[annpats]

Lol on my scuba error, which I know absolutely nothing about.

That's alright. I'm happy to pass on knowledge about something if I know it, and I always like others to inform me, if I don't know something.
Every day is a school day. It's a cringey saying, but quite true!

 

[annpats]

I hope that whatever happened to Laura, her relatives will find her, to get a closure.

Sadly, I think her remains may be found by other hikers when the season opens there next year.

Isn't that the case in so many missing hiker cases?

Search and Rescue can sometimes only do so much, and they too are limited by weather.

 

[Vail]

I hope she's found a way to survive

 

[Caring1]

Missing Hiker in Olympic National Park Presumed Dead - NewsBreak

A missing hiker who disappeared while hiking in the Olympic National Park is now presumed to be dead, officials note. This move comes as experts note...

www.newsbreakapp.com

A missing hiker who disappeared while hiking in the Olympic National Park is now presumed to be dead, officials note. This move comes as experts note that the hiker’s “survivability is not expected.”

 

[RickshawFan]

Missing Hiker in Olympic National Park Presumed Dead - NewsBreak

A missing hiker who disappeared while hiking in the Olympic National Park is now presumed to be dead, officials note. This move comes as experts note...

www.newsbreakapp.com

A missing hiker who disappeared while hiking in the Olympic National Park is now presumed to be dead, officials note. This move comes as experts note that the hiker’s “survivability is not expected.”

The official statement came a few days ago (some news outlets are just getting to it), but yes. It seems there were many factors that made survivability unlikely. Several were unique to the individual, but the weather wasn’t tenable, either.

 

[RickshawFan]

@Tower has guilted me into spending my hard-won, PRECIOUS, REI coupon on a very bright technical top. Hard to buy orange pants, but, yep, pricey orange top instead of the lovely green one. Whooooosh! There goes my wallet.

 

[Charlot123]

Very, very sad for LM’s family and loved ones.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

 

[RickshawFan]

View attachment 379774

That's what the flares look like you keep in your pack?

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

That's what the flares look like you keep in your pack?

Yes, sorry, I didn't post any text and was very late in responding but yes, basically. Different brand, different color, but same same.

 

[ifindedout]

View attachment 379774

Are these the sticks that we used to carry in car trunks/boots back in the day, or are these ones smaller (i.e. actual size)?

 

[MissMYB]

Such a tragic case. I had held out hope, now only time "may" tell us what happened to her. My condolences to her family and friends.