WA WA - Oakley Carlson, 5, missing during welfare check, Oakville, 10 Feb 2021

Psychic Sleuth

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I’ve seen a couple of mentions of the school noticing Oakley’s absence as if it were a recent thing. The timeline is puzzling. Did she ask after Oakley at the sleepover after not having seen her since January? In which case one child at the school and not the other for a year? Makes more sense that they haven’t seen her since November. This is confusing
Oakley was not old enough for Kindergarten. Someone local said there was a cubby for Oakley in her sons TK class at the elementary school (which is like pre-school or transitional kindergarten is what it's called). This person did not know if Oakley was actually enrolled, or the school was just expecting her to be. This is an extremely small town.
The Principal noticed Oakley not being around when she was helping the parents after the fire in Nov. Her daughter is friends with Oakley's sister.
 

kelsie

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Addiction and the proper treatment for it is so much more than a sound byte.

I cannot recommend the Rat Park study enough. Everyone should read it.
Yes! One of the most interesting studies. It is shown that being isolated increases the chances of addiction very much, hence why overdoses absolutely exploded when COVID switched into gear and everyone had to work from home.
Substance use during the pandemic
The Impact Of Two Epidemics: Addiction And COVID-19
During Covid-19 pandemic, overdose deaths reached new heights - STAT
Aren't people basically saying the same thing you are in your last paragraph? That there should be accountability? Btw, once an addict becomes a criminal I do not care about poor poor them. No one cares about victims anymore. Its about the poor poor criminal.
I never said accountability shouldn't be taken.
And I immensely disagree with that.
Nobody cares about drug addicts, are you kidding me? Lol.

For instance, if you are in America and you have to go to the ER, God forbid, and experiencing excruciating pain - so you asked for something for the pain - there's a large chance they will think you're drug-seeking and treat you like you're lower than dirt. You will get dirty glances, muttering under their breath, rude comments, side eyes... the whole deal. Even if you've never been on drugs in your whole life.

Here's some more info on that if you want to get a glimpse into how badly people are treated for even a suspicion of being on drugs.
Many people with chronic illnesses (myself included) have experienced terrible ER visits with doctors who assume you're there to get pain meds, purely because of your age or attitude or whatever else. I have a severe case of chronic pyelonephritis which my doctors have told me is one of the most painful chronic conditions a person can get, and I still often get treated like *advertiser censored* in the ER.

How To Get Labeled a Pill Seeker Even When Youre Not One - Drug Rehab Options

Why does the Emergency Department treat me like a drug seeker?

My brother was addicted to drugs (drug use triggered schizoaffective disorder for him which has been devastating and hard to handle but he is clean now). He wasn't a criminal in my opinion, but he did have to go to jail after getting caught with drugs, multiple times. Being put in the legal system for having a substance abuse problem is one of the least helpful things imaginable, it just makes people want to use even more to forget about their legal troubles. Often they are fined lots of money or have to do jail time. It's useless and causes worsening depression or drug use.

A lot of people go into jail and are forced to get clean, but most relapse the second they come out. This post-jail relapse often turns into an overdose, as people will tend to use the same dose they're used to taking, but their tolerance has gone down and so it'll be too much for them. It's very dangerous. These people need help. Not your judgment, not jail time, not a criminal record. They need rehab, they need support, they need to see why life is worth living again. Being treated like absolute crap by society makes everything worse.

Thank you. I don't get the naivete regarding addicts. For one thing, how do people think they are supporting their habit? Smh.
I don't think kindness is naivety.
I have seen addiction up close and personal. Through the highs, lows, devastation, jail time, rehab, etc. You name it, I've seen it. I've studied addiction for about 7 years now, and in college as well, as I plan to get my AODA certification (unfortunately, school is taking me a long time due to my chronic illness).

You probably know people who are addicted and don't even know it. Many people are high functioning addicts. Many, definitely more than you think, have jobs or go to school.

High-Functioning Addicts: Who They Are, Who Is at Risk and How to Get Help: Matthew Goldenberg, D.O.: Psychiatrist
It is estimated that 10% to 14% of the U.S. population is addicted to drugs or alcohol. Many of those affected, including nearly 20% of all alcoholics, do not fit the stereotypical image of an addict — they are able to maintain their job, they may have spouses and children, and often enjoy busy social lives. Many professionals who abuse alcohol or other drugs are able to maintain a façade of normalcy, at least for some time.

Although physicians and other health care practitioners are #16 on SAMHSA’s list of the top 21 professions most at risk for addiction, it is worth noting that when health care professionals develop addiction, they are very likely to be “high-functioners.”

It is estimated that roughly 10% to 15% of health care professionals misuse drugs or alcohol at some point during their careers. Alcohol is the most common substance of abuse, followed by prescription medications. Statistics show that those at highest risk for substance abuse may be emergency room physicians, emergency nurses and staff, anesthesiologists and psychiatrists.

Another high-risk group is pharmacists. A 1987 study of pharmacists and pharmacy students showed that 46% of pharmacists and 62% of pharmacy students had misused a controlled substance without a prescription. The National Institute on Drug Abuse further found that 11% to 15% of pharmacists experience alcohol or drug dependency problems at some time in their careers. Some studies of drug addiction among professionals cite “unrestricted” access to addictive pharmaceuticals, or “convenience,” as a major factor impacting which professionals get addicted.

Compassion and empathy is crucial if we want the fentanyl epidemic to stop, the insanely high number overdoses in America to stop... the heavy amount of shame that comes with being addicted is nearly unfathomable. Many hate themselves for doing drugs and feel powerless to stop. Other people validate their own self hatred by hearing others voice the sorts of things that you are.

You're using judgmental stereotypes about addiction, and using harmful phrases and attitudes as well. Any person doing that adds to the problem, and it makes my heart hurt to see. I hope my response has helped you learn a bit about how addiction can touch anyone in any walk of life.
 

AgeofAquaruis

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I'm not sure if anyone posted it yet, but this is the address I can find for the parents and it matches the descriptions we've heard.

Google Maps

It appears to be rented so I won't link directly to the property records.


ETA: Grays Harbor County Jail Roster
He's going to have a ball on the bottom rung in there, former cop, with the charges against him. A little shimmer of a silver lining. MOO
 

HelenM

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Yes! One of the most interesting studies. It is shown that being isolated increases the chances of addiction very much, hence why overdoses absolutely exploded when COVID switched into gear and everyone had to work from home.
Substance use during the pandemic
The Impact Of Two Epidemics: Addiction And COVID-19
During Covid-19 pandemic, overdose deaths reached new heights - STAT

I never said accountability shouldn't be taken.
And I immensely disagree with that.
Nobody cares about drug addicts, are you kidding me? Lol.

For instance, if you are in America and you have to go to the ER, God forbid, and experiencing excruciating pain - so you asked for something for the pain - there's a large chance they will think you're drug-seeking and treat you like you're lower than dirt. You will get dirty glances, muttering under their breath, rude comments, side eyes... the whole deal. Even if you've never been on drugs in your whole life.

Here's some more info on that if you want to get a glimpse into how badly people are treated for even a suspicion of being on drugs.
Many people with chronic illnesses (myself included) have experienced terrible ER visits with doctors who assume you're there to get pain meds, purely because of your age or attitude or whatever else. I have a severe case of chronic pyelonephritis which my doctors have told me is one of the most painful chronic conditions a person can get, and I still often get treated like **** in the ER.

How To Get Labeled a Pill Seeker Even When Youre Not One - Drug Rehab Options

Why does the Emergency Department treat me like a drug seeker?

My brother was addicted to drugs (drug use triggered schizoaffective disorder for him which has been devastating and hard to handle but he is clean now). He wasn't a criminal in my opinion, but he did have to go to jail after getting caught with drugs, multiple times. Being put in the legal system for having a substance abuse problem is one of the least helpful things imaginable, it just makes people want to use even more to forget about their legal troubles. Often they are fined lots of money or have to do jail time. It's useless and causes worsening depression or drug use.

A lot of people go into jail and are forced to get clean, but most relapse the second they come out. This post-jail relapse often turns into an overdose, as people will tend to use the same dose they're used to taking, but their tolerance has gone down and so it'll be too much for them. It's very dangerous. These people need help. Not your judgment, not jail time, not a criminal record. They need rehab, they need support, they need to see why life is worth living again. Being treated like absolute crap by society makes everything worse.


I don't think kindness is naivety.
I have seen addiction up close and personal. Through the highs, lows, devastation, jail time, rehab, etc. You name it, I've seen it. I've studied addiction for about 7 years now, and in college as well, as I plan to get my AODA certification (unfortunately, school is taking me a long time due to my chronic illness).

You probably know people who are addicted and don't even know it. Many people are high functioning addicts. Many, definitely more than you think, have jobs or go to school.

High-Functioning Addicts: Who They Are, Who Is at Risk and How to Get Help: Matthew Goldenberg, D.O.: Psychiatrist






Compassion and empathy is crucial if we want the fentanyl epidemic to stop, the insanely high number overdoses in America to stop... the heavy amount of shame that comes with being addicted is nearly unfathomable. Many hate themselves for doing drugs and feel powerless to stop. Other people validate their own self hatred by hearing others voice the sorts of things that you are.

You're using judgmental stereotypes about addiction, and using harmful phrases and attitudes as well. Any person doing that adds to the problem, and it makes my heart hurt to see. I hope my response has helped you learn a bit about how addiction can touch anyone in any walk of life.

Thank you for this informative post.
 

Hexe

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Compassion and empathy is crucial if we want the fentanyl epidemic to stop, the insanely high number overdoses in America to stop...

It's all nice and dandy, we should be compassionate, but it still does not mean we should give the kids into the care of active addicts. And that's the clou here. Oakley was abused and neglected and is probably dead, because she was taken away from her loving foster family and given back to the addict parents who were absolutely NOT ready for that. And if you have seen the addiction up close, you probably know how traumatising, scarring and dangerous can be the life of a child in a family with an addiction problem. Compassion? Sure, but not at the expense of the children.
 

kelsie

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It's all nice and dandy, we should be compassionate, but it still does not mean we should give the kids into the care of active addicts. And that's the clou here. Oakley was abused and neglected and is probably dead, because she was taken away from her loving foster family and given back to the addict parents who were absolutely NOT ready for that. And if you have seen the addiction up close, you probably know how traumatising, scarring and dangerous can be the life of a child in a family with an addiction problem. Compassion? Sure, but not at the expense of the children.

I'm not saying that at all, and if you read my first post, you'd see that. I'm frustrated with the responses here because of the language and attitudes towards addicts in general. I do not feel sorry for either of these two people in the least, but I hate the assumption that all people experiencing addiction are just like Jordan and Andrew. They are not.

I grew up seeing alcoholism first hand everyday, my daddy picked alcohol over me, over everything. He had a heart of gold when he was sober and I loved him to death, but he wasn't a functioning dad once things got a lot worse when I was around 10. I absolutely shouldn't have been in the household because I had to look after myself at such a young age. There was definite negligence going on. Many consequences of his actions have affected my own life. I had my own battle with alcohol, I have abandonment issues, I have daddy issues... the whole fun shebang. I'm hyperaware of issues that addiction causes within families. It is a family disease.

So trust me, I know all about how scarring and traumatizing being raised by an addict is. I never said kids should be in that environment. If someone gets their kids taken away due to their addiction, they should have to work hard and be clean to get their kids back. They should be checked up on, often. CPS really dropped the ball in this case and it's beyond unacceptable disgusting.
 

kelsie

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Thank you for this informative post.
Helen, you just made my day. Thank you so much for this response! I feel inclined to spread factual information about addiction so people hopefully gain a bigger understanding of the reality of drug use. The war on drugs and the shameful stigma attached has made substance abuse one of the biggest killers in the United States, and one of the absolutely necessary steps to solving this crisis is to offer a helping hand instead of judgment to our fellow man when needed.
 

kelsie

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264455439_10224052955924090_5533486120077632877_n.jpg

Poster link in case image doesn't work
 

HelenM

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Helen, you just made my day. Thank you so much for this response! I feel inclined to spread factual information about addiction so people hopefully gain a bigger understanding of the reality of drug use. The war on drugs and the shameful stigma attached has made substance abuse one of the biggest killers in the United States, and one of the absolutely necessary steps to solving this crisis is to offer a helping hand instead of judgment to our fellow man when needed.

Kelsie, i love your input, i learn from your posts.

I lost a close family member to alcoholism and a good friend to drug issues. They were both beautiful people but couldn't shake off their demons.
I miss them both so much and when sober, i would have trusted them with my life.

I wish we could rewind time and save Oakley from the unhealthy situation she was in with her bio parents. And i wish she could have stayed with her really wonderful foster parents.
 

gophergirl50

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It's not a funding issue. They have plenty of funds. It's the laws and legislation that need to change.
As someone who has worked as a caseworker, in Illinois, it’s very much a funding issue. You’re expected to carry overloaded cases with minimal resources. Oh, and it’s money when the service prescribed to reunite the family aren’t there, when your state or service area doesn’t have enough treatment facilities, therapists, doctors, etc who will either simply don’t have beds, or won’t take state insurance for services. All those things cost money. And there simply isn’t enough out into the pot either in payment form, or in the infrastructure to support kids snd families.
And let’s not even get into the lack of adequate foster care reimbursement, or services to support foster parent recruitment, and sometimes super foster parents who are no better than the birth parents sometimes.

that’s being said, I’m guessing these workers screwed up horribly. And it’s not hard to build a case against non compliant parents- it just requires a ton of follow through snd lots of documentation.

At least in IL, kids did get their own lawyer (part of a consent decree) and they do advocate for the kids. No these are not guardian ad litem (though we did have those too).
 

Psychic Sleuth

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As someone who has worked as a caseworker, in Illinois, it’s very much a funding issue. You’re expected to carry overloaded cases with minimal resources. Oh, and it’s money when the service prescribed to reunite the family aren’t there, when your state or service area doesn’t have enough treatment facilities, therapists, doctors, etc who will either simply don’t have beds, or won’t take state insurance for services. All those things cost money. And there simply isn’t enough out into the pot either in payment form, or in the infrastructure to support kids snd families.
And let’s not even get into the lack of adequate foster care reimbursement, or services to support foster parent recruitment, and sometimes super ****** foster parents who are no better than the birth parents sometimes.

that’s being said, I’m guessing these workers screwed up horribly. And it’s not hard to build a case against non compliant parents- it just requires a ton of follow through snd lots of documentation.

At least in IL, kids did get their own lawyer (part of a consent decree) and they do advocate for the kids. No these are not guardian ad litem (though we did have those too).

When you keep giving bio parents chance after chance for years on end and paying for kids to sit in foster care during that time the expenses are phenomenal. These cases are supposed to go to TPR within 18 months and they rarely do. Or bio's are nowhere to be found then suddenly pop up at TPR and want to work their plan. Then they disappear again until it's ready to go to TPR again, then they're back and want to start their services all over again. This is a non-stop cat and mouse game that often goes on for 3 4 5 years and these children just sit in limbo and this costs a ton of money. It's ridiculous! Stop giving them so many chances.
 

AgeofAquaruis

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When you keep giving bio parents chance after chance for years on end and paying for kids to sit in foster care during that time the expenses are phenomenal. These cases are supposed to go to TPR within 18 months and they rarely do. Or bio's are nowhere to be found then suddenly pop up at TPR and want to work their plan. Then they disappear again until it's ready to go to TPR again, then they're back and want to start their services all over again. This is a non-stop cat and mouse game that often goes on for 3 4 5 years and these children just sit in limbo and this costs a ton of money. It's ridiculous! Stop giving them so many chances.
Looks these DNA Donors got help handed to them on a silver platter. So much bending over backwards for them. So many chances granted them like there's a magic genie. They just chewed that up and spit it out. These poor children are paying the price for all that bending over backwards. One Not seen maybe since Jan 27th,another denied critical meds for 15 whole months. I'm not going to be the least surprised if it turns out the other kids have been ill treated too. Well telling them one of their sibs got eaten by wolves is absolutely horrific abuse. I don't feel one bit sorry them, or their addiction issues. They can get clean,and stay that way in prison, forever. Children first. Stop bending over backwards for the DNA Donors. MOO
 

Psychic Sleuth

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Looks these DNA Donors got help handed to them on a silver platter. So much bending over backwards for them. So many chances granted them like there's a magic genie. They just chewed that up and spit it out. These poor children are paying the price for all that bending over backwards. One Not seen maybe since Jan 27th,another denied critical meds for 15 whole months. I'm not going to be the least surprised if it turns out the other kids have been ill treated too. Well telling them one of their sibs got eaten by wolves is absolutely horrific abuse. I don't feel one bit sorry them, or their addiction issues. They can get clean,and stay that way in prison, forever. Children first. Stop bending over backwards for the DNA Donors. MOO
OMG I feel the same! I am for the children. We have to protect the innocent vulnerable children. Stop bending over backwards for these parents (addicts or not). THEY are what cost the system so much money. Follow a CPS case from start to finish and you will see how ridiculous it is. Family Court hearings are public.
 

AgeofAquaruis

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OMG I feel the same! I am for the children. We have to protect the innocent vulnerable children. Stop bending over backwards for these parents (addicts or not). THEY are what cost the system so much money. Follow a CPS case from start to finish and you will see how ridiculous it is. Family Court hearings are public.
Thank You. Save the family reunification for when the children are adults,and can make the decisions for themselves. Bend over backwards for the children until then. That's who it's all supposed be about. The children period. MOO
 

Psychic Sleuth

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Thank You. Save the family reunification for when the children are adults,and can make the decisions for themselves. Bend over backwards for the children until then. That's who it's all supposed be about. The children period. MOO

I do hear occasional stories of successful reunifications where parents truly are reformed. It's few and far between. Usually, children are returned and abused even further and come right back into the system. When addiction is involved, reunification is rarely a success story. That's just the cold hard truth. And who suffers? The children of course.
 

sk716

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It's really messed up. Every state gets to set their own standards and they are wildly different from state to state. I think we need nationalized standards for removal and reunification. I'm all for reunification, but I think I'd prefer reunification take place over a longer period of time under very close (preferably live-in) observation.
 

Psychic Sleuth

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It's really messed up. Every state gets to set their own standards and they are wildly different from state to state. I think we need nationalized standards for removal and reunification. I'm all for reunification, but I think I'd prefer reunification take place over a longer period of time under very close (preferably live-in) observation.
I was all for supporting reunification when my foster parent journey began. Then I started seeing the horrible things these children went through and it's really hard to want to send them back to that. Plus, you see what the parents are like. All the failed UA's, the lies, the manipulation, the failure to do their services, follow their plan, not showing up for visits and the children so distraught they are vomiting. The damage done to these children is so profound. When you live it, it changes your outlook. Of course, this is not every case, but I would say the majority. Reunification looks great on paper. Everyone loves a successful reunification story. It just doesn't happen often.
 

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Remember that the COURT determines how many chances and how many conditions and the overworked, underfunded CPS workers have to go along with that. The caseworkers cannot decide what happens to the children.

But, agree that Oakley deserved much better and likely there are workers who missed important signs.

The sister is 6? Never mentioned at school that her sister was eaten by wolves? Hhhmmm.

jmho ymmv lrr
 
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