WA - Seattle bus, duck boat crash leaves four dead, dozens injured

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by zwiebel, Sep 25, 2015.

  1. zwiebel

    zwiebel New Member

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    A four-vehicle crash in Seattle involving a bus full of students and a tourist duck boat has left four students dead, 15 people critical and 33 others with less serious injuries.

    The crash occurred Thursday morning on the Aurora Bridge and triggered a huge emergency response; at one stage an emergency vehicle overheated and broke down, forcing responders to wheel a victim the rest of the way to the hospital.

    An investigation into the cause of the crash is ongoing.

    http://abc13.com/news/4-college-students-dead-in-seattle-duck-boat-crash/1000200/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-Duck-Tour-vehicle-collides-bus-Seattle.html
     
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  3. KaaBoom

    KaaBoom `·.¸¸ ><((((º> ...·´`·.¸¸ ><((((º>...·

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    Thats crazy. Those are military beach landing vehicles. They have no business operating them on crowded city streets, that way. It's just an accident waiting to happen, and apparently this is not the first time it has happened. I hope they shut that operation down.
     
  4. sonjay

    sonjay New Member

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    As far as I'm aware, every single type of vehicle being operated on public roadways has been involved in crashes.

    Do you know what, specifically, is so dangerous about these Duck Boats that they should be singled out to be shut down? I'm unclear on what makes them so much worse than any other vehicle on the road.
     
  5. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers Well-Known Member

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    Don't most cities now offer Duck Boat tours? How many times has this happened?

    They're very popular (and fun!) and I doubt they're going anywhere.
     
  6. KaaBoom

    KaaBoom `·.¸¸ ><((((º> ...·´`·.¸¸ ><((((º>...·

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    Well, take a look at what happened to the motorcyclists in this video. These vehicles were designed to land troops on beaches in World War 2, not to be giving tourists rides through a major congested Downtown area.

    [video=youtube;1xwQmL3n8Hg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xwQmL3n8Hg[/video]
     
  7. sonjay

    sonjay New Member

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    Well, I could post videos, pictures and news reports all day long of horrendous vehicle crashes not involving Duck Boats. Plain old sedans, SUVs, compact cars, convertibles, luxury cars, pickup trucks, tractor trailers.... Bloody carnage all day long.... about 30,000 people killed every year -- that's about 80 people per day. And many thousands more injured and requiring medical treatment or hospitalization.

    Wikipedia tells me there have been very few fatal incidents and very few non-fatal incidents involving Duck boats:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_tour#Fatal_incidents

    It seems that they have, overall, a pretty good safety record, considering that these Duck Boat rides are taking place all over the world.

    As far as I can tell, this is the first fatal crash on land involving a Duck Boat and another vehicle. There was a fatality involving a pedestrian who crossed the street against the light while reading her tablet. The Duck Boat driver wasn't charged in that incident. The most famous Duck Boat incident is probably the one in Philadelphia a few years ago. The captain of the Duck Boat was found partially at fault, but the tug boat pilot who ran it down was criminally charged and convicted. And that incident had nothing to do with the safety of Duck Boats on city streets.

    It's being reported now that in the Seattle crash, the left front tire of the Duck Boat came off. That sort of thing can and does happen to all types of vehicles, and has nothing to do with the safety of Duck Boats on city streets.

    Honestly, I just don't see how they're so horrendously unsafe that they should be banned. If Duck Boats must be banned because they're so dangerous, then we really should ban all vehicles. If I were going to start banning vehicles from the roads because of safety concerns, I'd probably start with motorcycles, followed by either convertibles or compact cars. Then probably either the huge SUVs, or the tractor trailors. Duck Boats would likely be pretty far down on the list of vehicles to ban because of inherent safety issues.
     
  8. Trino

    Trino Active Member

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    If the tire came off, the company that operates the boat is legally responsible, and the lawsuits will probably put the company out of business. A ban may not be necessary.
     
  9. KaaBoom

    KaaBoom `·.¸¸ ><((((º> ...·´`·.¸¸ ><((((º>...·

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    From the Wikipedia article.

    Again these vehicles are being used for a purpose other then what they were designed for. They should be treated the same way any other vehicle on the road is treated that doesn't have a clear line of sight with the traffic. They should be required to run with a pilot car in front, one behind, and they should have and additional tour guide on board to provide the entertainment, so the driver can concentrate on communicating with the pilot cars, so they don't run into anyone.
     
  10. KaaBoom

    KaaBoom `·.¸¸ ><((((º> ...·´`·.¸¸ ><((((º>...·

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    Unfortunately thats not the way things work. These things are making the owners millions of dollars a year. This type of situation is what they have insurance for. They will just pay higher insurance premiums, and raise their ticket prices to cover the cost.
     
  11. sonjay

    sonjay New Member

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    So, two rear-end collisions 4 years ago and 5 years ago means that these things are so dangerous that they need a front and rear escort?

    How many rear-end collisions have tractor-trailors been involved in since 2010? How many rear-end collisions have SUVs been involved in since 2010? How many rear-end collisions have plain old garden-variety sedans been involved in since 2010?

    I just don't see any evidence that these vehicles are particularly dangerous.

    Police identify all 18 victims of tragic tractor-trailer crash
    Witness: Tractor-trailer "mowed cars down" in 9-vehicle crash
    http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...-cars-down-9-vehicle-crash-killed-six/311684/

    2 dead, 4 injured after truck hits motorcycles along Interstate 85 in Guilford County
    http://www.wxii12.com/news/tractortrailer-motorcycles-involved-in-i85-accident/34215010


    2 dead in tractor trailer crash
    http://wtnh.com/2015/09/18/2-dead-in-tractor-trailer-crash/

    1 dead, another injured after tractor trailer accident
    http://www.live5news.com/story/2962...tractor-trailer-strikes-several-trees-on-i-95

    1 man dead after tractor-trailer crushes minivan
    http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index...shes_in_cicero_ends_up_on_top_of_vehicle.html

    http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/breaking-multi-vehicle-accident-route-65/nnFd2/
    2 dead after 4-vehicle crash involving tractor-trailer

    These are just a small sampling of fatal tractor-trailer crashes in the past couple of months. Obviously, tractor-trailers are too dangerous for public roads and should be banned.
     
  12. KaaBoom

    KaaBoom `·.¸¸ ><((((º> ...·´`·.¸¸ ><((((º>...·

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    Yes, any vehicle that the driver doesn't have an unobstructed view of road in the front of them should have an escort. IMHO. How would you like to be stopped at a red light and have an oversized vehicle that can't see you come up behind you?
     
  13. Trino

    Trino Active Member

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    http://kstp.com/article/stories/S3919786.shtml?cat=12678

    Duck boats suspended:
    The decision came a day after federal investigators announced that the duck boat involved in the crash did not have an axle repair that was recommended two years ago for such vehicles. Expect millions in payouts.
     
  14. LyndyLoo

    LyndyLoo Active Member

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    Well..THAT would eat into their profits..and of course they could pass that onto their patrons..BUT they didn't!!

    Well, It's about time..this Duck Boat Company was all about "Profit Margins"..and not doing their due diligence says it all....So by closing down their company.. means they will likely go bankrupt..so liability claims will be nullified...Yeah for free market ( NOT)!!

    LOL..Start a company..diregard safe practice...then shut down leaving the Government to pick up the costs...I'm sorry..but Any Company must have Insurance to do what they do..Yet no doubt that Insurance Company will negate responsibility due to Duck Boat NOT complying with directive safety concerns..relieves them...Talk about Corporate Bailouts!!
     
  15. sonjay

    sonjay New Member

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    Do you have any idea how many car accidents & truck accidents and plane accidents and train accidents and boat accidents happen because someone failed to adhere to some aspect of a maintenance schedule?

    I'm not saying it's okay for the Duck Boat company to not keep their Duck Boats maintained properly. (Although I'm sure someone will come along and respond as if that's what I'm doing.)

    I am saying that it happens all the time, and people die, and no one calls for the company to be put out of business.

    Also, an accident that happened due to inadequate maintenance is unrelated to the safety of the Duck Boats on city streets. Apparently, this accident had nothing to do with the overall safety of Duck Boats.

    For heaven's sake, I really need to hear you folks calling for cars & trucks to be banned. If four fatalities justifies banning something, then ALL cars, trucks, tractor trailers, boats, planes, trains, bicycles, motorcycles, scooters, and every other type of mechanized transportation needs to be banned.
     
  16. KaaBoom

    KaaBoom `·.¸¸ ><((((º> ...·´`·.¸¸ ><((((º>...·

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    You do understand that you are comparing a couple of hundred 70 year old military surplus vehicles that were never designed to be used as tour vehicles, vs millions of modern vehicles with safety equipment that didn't even exist during World War 2, right? It's kind of an apples and oranges comparison. Of course the millions of modern vehicles, are going to have more accidents, then a couple of hundred WW2 surplus vehicles. But that has only to do with sheer numbers. It doesn't prove that they are as safe as modern vehicles.
     
  17. sonjay

    sonjay New Member

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    You do understand that I still haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that these things are so inherently dangerous that they must be banned... right?

    You're the one making the assertion that they're so inherently dangerous they must be banned. Can you provide any accidents-per-mile-driven statistics, or any other evidence of their inherent danger? Simply repeating over and over that they were WWII military vehicles doesn't prove anything.
     
  18. LaborDayRN

    LaborDayRN Well-Known Member

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    I agree. There are 2 million tractor trailers in the U.S. http://www.truckinfo.net/trucking/stats.htm
    There are a couple hundred duck boats (If that, I can't find an exact number). You really can't compare the number of accidents of one to the other. Whether they are inherently dangerous (duck boats) I think we need more info. MOO
     
  19. sonjay

    sonjay New Member

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    I'm not attempting to compare safety records of the two. I'm pointing out that if a couple of fatal accidents over the course of a decade means that Duck Boats are so dangerous they must be banned, then the tens of thousands of fatal accidents involving cars, motorcycles, semis, and other vehicles should also require banning those vehicles.

    Is it only a tragedy if someone is killed in a Duck Boat accident? Are the 30,000 people killed in non-Duck Boat motor vehicle accidents every year not a tragedy? We don't care about the 30k killed annually by other motor vehicles? We only care about the few killed by Duck Boats?
     
  20. Montjoy

    Montjoy Inactive

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    It's not just the number of vehicles that makes the comparison useless -- it's also the relative number of miles, hours of usage, etc.
     
  21. sonjay

    sonjay New Member

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    In post #16 above, I asked for stats on accidents per miles driven.

    Anyone who believes these things are so dangerous they must be banned should certainly have those stats at hand.
     

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