GENERIC HEADER NEWS MISSING PERSONS

WA WA - Seattle, WhtFem 159UFWA, 33-45, alias 'Mary Anderson', Oct'96

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by outofthedark, Jun 1, 2006.

  1. GloSeattle

    GloSeattle New Member

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    Great ideas! Yes, I was thinking LE, but military would fit right in as well with the meticulousness of her death. Those velour outfits bothered me as well, and I also wondered if they were just purchased, and if her purse was, her makeup, the toothpaste (how much was used and why no toothbrush?), if the jacket was new. The ME/Anthropologist believes she was in her 30's, her appearance looking older was as a result of cyanide and decomposition for 2 days before she was discovered. I know there are clues here, though... and you're right someone reading this may recognize her in the comments we make with our guesses... for instance, in the wah-me article by Matthews it said the sheets were stripped from the bed... that's a huge clue, why would she do that? This would be telling to a relative or someone close to her, maybe she did this because she was afraid she'd get sick (she would know that hotels will replace the mattress if someone dies on it) so she didn't want them to have to throw the sheets away too. She knew about hotel deaths...I'm convinced of that. October 9th is the anniversary of Leif Erickson discovering "Vinland" (possibly L'Anse aux Meadows, Canada) reputedly becoming first European to reach North America... so maybe the leaf and this date are pointers? If she was in LE or in the military was she a chemist, or in forensics? Perhaps check and see if there's some pension checks which came back "address unknown" for a person her young age, although she might have not enlisted/joined LE until a later age making that not an issue. She wore black at her death, but leggings and a turtle neck top, much more fitting and fashionable in 1996, so the velour, and all the items almost seem like a further deception to me. Even having the bible on her, she may have been a staunch atheist, or even wiccan... if she didn't want to be known she would take every measure possible to hide who she was/is. I agree though, there is a "regimented" detail in which she kept herself from being discovered, and bad luck on id numbers, and id on her dentals as well. But then again, no one I believe thinks she's dead to this day! I think wherever she left from, she traveled and moved a lot, made no permanent friends, and those who were recent thought she was moving again to another area, perhaps country and may not be seen again. So, no one expected to see her. Or, she and her family were so permanently alienated, that they just wonder if she'll ever forgive them, or they haven't forgiven her? I agree, this case needs more information released on her so perhaps someone will recognize something in the room as "a way she used to do this" and say hey I think I know her. We are 5 days away now from her 18th year of being UID. I sure don't want her to stay Jane Doe :-(
     
  2. LkjAndersen

    LkjAndersen New Member

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    I dunno, the lengths she went through to not be ID'd, I am thinking there was someone she didn't want to know of her passing. If she was permanently alienated from her family, and had no real friends, would she really have cared that much? If you disappear to commit suicide, you want to leave some plausible deniability for someone.

    There is a part in David Simons "Homicide: A Year On The Killing Streets", where they talk about the suicides of police-officers. Clean and methodical. They don't leave anything to chance and they like to leave a clean scene. No doubt of the cause of death, no question of ID, and little to no cleanup. Generally, according to the book, they want to leave as little work as possible for their colleagues. Certainly, she fits part of that. Except for the part about not leaving a huge puzzle behind. And not only allowing herself to be dead for two days before being found, but spending her last cash to ensure it.
     
  3. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    The thing that continues to puzzle me is that her possessions and clothing seem to be that of an older woman. The velour pantsuits, for instance, strike me as completely normal for a 45-50 year old overweight woman to wear for a fall weekend in the city. Decent looking and comfortable. But a woman in her 30's usually thinks of them as "clothes my grandmother wears."

    Was she trying to make people think she was older than she was? Had she been living under a false, older perona? Was she just "old for her age," as my mother would say?

    We have several other unidentified people who traveled long distances to commit anonymous suicide in a hotel room, so the act itself seems within the range of normal behavior, but everything about the way she did it seems unusual.
     
  4. GloSeattle

    GloSeattle New Member

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    Exactly... she was protecting someone - look at the note, no one to blame, and she made sure there was no one to blame. Like that book, by David Simons, and that is what I thought too... just too neat and clean. That's why I was wondering if she was former LE, forensics, something in that background. She tied her ends up clean, 18 years and no one realizes she is dead! So, she's protecting someone who cares for her deeply but doesn't realize she's even missing in these 18 years... was it a man she divorced or broke up with that she convinced that she'd never contact him again for anything and he just thought she's gone she'll never be back? But wouldn't he wonder and try to look for her? Maybe he wasn't that type. Did she tell someone she was reassigned and was moving out of the country and not returning? What was the lie she told to not make anyone suspect she was dead? What would you say??? Great points, good analogy I think you're spot on!
     
  5. GloSeattle

    GloSeattle New Member

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    See I'm in her age range, and that's what I thought too. Even the cosmetics... my grammy used that brand, none of us did. And grammy was using it in the mid 80's, and she wore the velour pantsuits in colors! If I wore a work out outfit, it was a sweatshirt material, or terry. I wouldn't have been caught dead in those, especially bright colors if I was over weight. I'd wear black, like what she died in, it makes you appear slimmer. That's the thing, the entire room and belongings I think were there to spin an opposite story about who she was. (The sheets off the bed really doesn't fit, why strip the bed not wanting housekeeping to throw them away, really? Why would that even matter...There has to be a reason there. And the medication, she was taking something, or someone she cared for did and she grabbed an empty bottle to transport the cyanide in. I wonder what her organs looked like at autopsy, if there were any medical conditions they identified and didn't release? What other traces of anything were in her blood... So many questions....)
     
  6. GloSeattle

    GloSeattle New Member

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    Again, back to cyanide and access:
    "College courses in chemical analysis lab we put waste cyanide product in old gallon (or about that size) bottles for disposal."
    "Cyanide is also known
    by the military designations AN (for hydrogen cyanide) and CK (for cyanogen chloride)."

    So could have been a pharmaceutical rep too as cyanide can occur in many specialty chemicals.

    "Nitriles are a form of cyanide found in solvents and glue removers. Acetonitrile and propionitrile are the most commonly encountered nitriles. Metabolized to cyanide in the liver, acetonitrile is the active ingredient in artificial nail removers and has been linked to cases of cyanide poisoning."

    "Although not a common cause of poisoning, natural sources can produce cyanide poisoning when taken in large quantities or when they are packaged as alternative medicines, such as Laetrile. Cyanide occurs naturally in amygdalin, a cyanogenic glucoside."

    "The U.S. Food and Drug Administration prohibited the interstate shipment of amygdalin (Vitamin B17) and laetrile in 1977.[26][27] Thereafter, 27 U.S. states legalized the use of amygdalin within those states" as long as it doesn't cross state lines.

    "No doctor in their right mind would let the FDA know they were using laetrile in their practice. The FDA would immediately notify the AMA, and the AMA would yank the person’s license (unless they had a really good lawyer and a lot of money). Thus, it is effectively illegal to purchase laetrile pills."

    "There are also major vendors for apricot kernels in Iran and Turkey."

    So if she was a pharmacy rep she might have traveled once the drug became (pardon the pun) suicide for any doctor to apply to the FDA for it. She may have had cancer and saved up her supply of this drug and used it for her own suicide, or obtained it in this way.

    Also, solvents and glue removers contain cyanide... so perhaps a flooring reconstruction business? So chemistry, mining industry, military, flooring or factory where glue removers are made, pharmaceutical representative, or forensics department of LE. Any of these positions could involve travel to other countries with our global business climate. Here's the links with the information:

    http://ccn.aacnjournals.org/content/31/1/72.full
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdalin#Laetrile
    http://www.cancertutor.com/faq_buy_laetrile/
     
  7. GloSeattle

    GloSeattle New Member

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    Just had a thought = suppose I'm on someone's "hot list" looking up cyanide all the time as a possible terrorist :-( I hope they see I'm on Websleuth's LoL (I keep running across all these terrorism links for cyanide so I'm hoping they look at more than just what you're looking up? Thank goodness this is one of only 3 groups I belong to!)
     
  8. annemc2

    annemc2 her name is Suzanne Marie Sevakis

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    Yes! It's like Hello NSA! I'm just looking into where someone got some cyanide in 1996! Nothing nefarious going on whatsoever! Nothing to see here! Kthxbye!
     
  9. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Carbuff suggested that she might have been a caretaker for an older woman who died. The clothing and medicine bottle might have belonged to her employer. Maybe she was expecting a legacy she didn't get, or caused her employer's death, or something along those lines.
     
  10. Shamrocker99

    Shamrocker99 New Member

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    if she was military, her fingerprints would have been in the system...they own you body and soul while you are in, so I am sure her prints were taken! I have a hard time reconciling her choice of clothing/makeup with her supposed age, also! such old-timey choices for someone allegedly in her 30's!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  11. GloSeattle

    GloSeattle New Member

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    I like that, entirely possible - perhaps an in home nurse for someone. We hired one for my mom after her cancer scare. Would make sense with the clothing (I am her age and I would not have been caught dead in bright velour in 1996 even if I was over 200 pounds, that sheen would make it worse!) Maybe we can look for headlines on a nurse or caretaker in the 90's and an untimely death of one of her patients?
     
  12. GloSeattle

    GloSeattle New Member

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    Good ideas! I wonder if they ran her prints with the State Department or the Department of Defense? My brothers in the Persian Gulf War and in the Iraq/Afghanistan war are both deceased, otherwise I'd ask them how or if they were finger printed back then. Anyone else know?
     
  13. drbuzz0

    drbuzz0 New Member

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    A huge step toward knowing who this is is knowing where she came from. If her origin can be narrowed to a region, for example, the North Eastern US or the Gulf Coast or Western Canada etc, then that will give a very good sense where to start looking and to eliminate a huge number of dead ends.

    This can be done with an unidentified body using a technique called isotope analysis. It can be done on tissue samples and even teeth and bone. It can even provide a general history of where they have lived in the past.

    It exploits the fact that different areas have slightly different ratios of isotopes in the local environment.

    The problem is it is expensive and I don't think that the authorities are interested in spending the money necessary. If they don't have tissue samples saved, it would be even more expensive, as they would need to exhume the body.
     
  14. LavenderLotus

    LavenderLotus Active Member

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    When I joined, they took our DNA samples as well.
     
  15. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    My friend tells me they want complete ID info for everybody in case they need to identify the body :p Grim but necessary.
     
  16. drbuzz0

    drbuzz0 New Member

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    One thing that has been left out is the nature of the cyanide that she took. It's not easy to come by these days, but it would have been even harder in the days before the internet. At least today you'd be able to track down potential suppliers online. In the 1990's you'd need to be involved in mining, analytical chemistry, medicine or a few other areas to have access to it. You might have been able to get it from a chemical supplier, but you'd need a plausible story or they'd be suspicious about selling it. You'd probably need some kind of connections.

    Cyanide comes in different compounds. It could have been potassium cyanide or sodium cyanide or something else.

    Knowing this could narrow down what area it might have been used in and where it could have come from.

    Also, if there was any cyanide residue left on the container it was in, was it analyzed? If so, how pure was it and what impurities were there? This also would depend on what it is used for. If it was used for an industrial purpose, it would be of a lower purity than if it was used for analytical chemistry.
     
  17. FiveFelines

    FiveFelines Well-Known Member

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    Revisiting Mary today. Did we already discuss this article? It's from 1991, but has some interesting tidbits about cyanide. It was much more difficult to purchase after the Stella Nickell case. I know Mary is likely not from WA, but the list of cyanide manufacturers in the area might be worth noting: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910305&slug=1269780


     
  18. JayFletcher6493

    JayFletcher6493 Member

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  19. Aeronomy

    Aeronomy Active Member

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    I've not seen it mentioned about whether or not "Mary" were a smoker. I noticed there were a pack of cigarettes and a lighter on the bedside table. Does anyone know if they were hers? (My apologies if this had been covered already.)

    I'm surprised her freckles aren't mentioned as a physical characteristic for her. The ones on her nose and under her eyes seem prominent enough to reference.
     
  20. JayFletcher6493

    JayFletcher6493 Member

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    could she possibly have had a terminal illness?
     

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