Discussion in 'Identified!' started by Rle7, May 3, 2008.
Bummer, thanks anyway.
Idk if these two have been recommended but I think they kind of look similar to the sketches and they aren't on the ruled out list.
Carlene Tengelson disapeared in 72 at 16. She disapeared during her first time driving on her own. She has the height and was still in the same age range, she would of been 21.
Diane Schulte disapeared in march of 77 and I think she looks the most similar, but her height is listed at 5'5. To me she kind of looks like the Jane doe and by the looks of the picture her hair seemed to be in the same style.
I would like to see Diane ruled out. I see the resemblance.
It doesn't look like a huge gap
"The person on the other end of the line was in Australia, more than 7,000 miles -- and nearly 40 years -- removed from the case she was calling about. The woman had recognized details and images posted on the Snohomish County Medical Examiner's website for a person who was murdered in the late 1970s but was never identified."
"This woman from Australia -- she's actively searching for one of her friends from the '70s. It turns out this person was a hitchhiker and had gone from state to state at that time and was of a vulnerable population," Moorman said. "There's a very good possibility that they could be connected and she knows all the family contacts."
Interesting article. It doesn't say that the friend the caller was looking for was also from Australia. If this JD was, I would think her accent would have stood out.
I was thinking the same... about if JD was from there, too, and about the accent thing. If she was, she could have disguised it with an American accent as not to stand out.
Not all Australian accents are as pronounced as the ones you hear on TV, which it seems like are usually Queensland accents. Other regions more closely resemble western US or Canadian accents.
I spent three weeks traveling around Australia a few years ago, and nowhere was my Montana accent identified as American. Everybody thought I was from a different part of Australia. It was very strange and amusing.
Montana has an accent? LOL. I don't think I've ever heard one!
If the Australian lead is a valid one then I think this might end up being Narelle Mary Cox. She left her home travelling to destinations unknown in May of 1977, three months before the decedent was found, and hasn't been seen since. Composite sketch and photo are not totally off. Cox was a hitchhiker.
Thee question is did she come to the US?
The height for Narelle is off by around 6 inches.
We've seen them off by a lot more.
I've often wondered just how accurate some of those estimates are.
NM - Pagosa Springs, WhtFem 55UFNM, 25-35, @ San Juan River, Sep'82 *Margaret Walden*
This post has her and the Doe stats
When I took an online forensics class a couple of years ago, they indicated that most information obtained from a deceased body is based on statistical probabilities. For instance with race there's a range of characteristics that are typical of large areas of population, but even leaving out issues like racial mixing, there will always be outliers. So for example, you'll find a few Native Americans who don't have shovel-shaped incisors and a few people of European extraction who do.
Height is estimated the same way. There's a chart, and they measure the long bones and use the chart to estimate how tall the person who owned those bones might have been. There are charts that estimate how much that person would have weighed, statistically speaking. But it doesn't take into account a person with a long torso and short legs, or long arms and legs, or anything like that, or whether the person slouched or stood tall.
Some medical examiners will lay out the bones on a table in approximate position and measure from that.
The class said that bodies that aren't skeletal are usually measured, and the measurement usually does NOT take into account that the body tends to shrink after death. It's a measurement of the remains that are lying on the table in front of the examiner, not of what the person might have looked like in life.
Namus has checkboxes that in theory tell whether they're about the remains or the person when they were alive, but they aren't used consistently, and for older cases that are entered from autopsy or medical examiner reports, it's anybody's guess what they meant.
I generally just think of categories, personally. A small woman, a tall man, etc. And even that's not for sure.
Thanks, Carbuff. I think some of the height estimates for MPs are off, too, which doesn't help.
Heigh off doesn't mean much.
Height is more likely to be off when estimating off femur/skeletal remains, but SJD was found 5 days after her murder, so those estimates are likely to be pretty accurate.
Not impossible, but improbable.
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I wanted to add after some additional thought that carbuff is right, there is shrinkage after death. Its why some cultures noted nails "growing" and thought that was a sign of vampires...not vampires, just skin shrinkage. However, that would point to her being taller than 5'9, not shorter.
Height is tricky, even when you are alive. My height has varied by an inch or so over the years, not because of growth or shrinkage but because of operator calls, inaccurate measuring, etc. I think that's why an inch or two range is probably best practice when reviewing. As has been mentioned, we have seen some cases where height, weight, even gender has been off, so its not impossible.
However, SJD was characterized by DR as "tall". I don't necessarily trust his veracity on anything, but it does appear supported by ME stats. So unless you are seeing a lot of other "hits" (dental, location, circumstance) match up, probably not a likely match, IMHO.
I think a lot about SJD, and have hope with all the identifications happening in the last few years that we may finally be able to give her her name back.