Identified! WA - Snohomish Co., WhtFem 516UFWA, 15-22, hitchhiker, Aug 1977 - Lisa Roberts

Idk if these two have been recommended but I think they kind of look similar to the sketches and they aren't on the ruled out list.

Carlene Tengelson disapeared in 72 at 16. She disapeared during her first time driving on her own. She has the height and was still in the same age range, she would of been 21.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2837dfga.html

Diane Schulte disapeared in march of 77 and I think she looks the most similar, but her height is listed at 5'5. To me she kind of looks like the Jane doe and by the looks of the picture her hair seemed to be in the same style.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1034dfid.html

Diane Schulte was ruled out by dentals. Please see additional rule out list upthread (page 12) from LE.

Circumstances with Carlene and the fact that she had braces when LKA make it more unlikely than not, IMHO.
 
I wanted to add after some additional thought that carbuff is right, there is shrinkage after death. Its why some cultures noted nails "growing" and thought that was a sign of vampires...not vampires, just skin shrinkage. However, that would point to her being taller than 5'9, not shorter.

Height is tricky, even when you are alive. My height has varied by an inch or so over the years, not because of growth or shrinkage but because of operator calls, inaccurate measuring, etc. I think that's why an inch or two range is probably best practice when reviewing. As has been mentioned, we have seen some cases where height, weight, even gender has been off, so its not impossible.

However, SJD was characterized by DR as "tall". I don't necessarily trust his veracity on anything, but it does appear supported by ME stats. So unless you are seeing a lot of other "hits" (dental, location, circumstance) match up, probably not a likely match, IMHO.

I think a lot about SJD, and have hope with all the identifications happening in the last few years that we may finally be able to give her her name back.

Ooops, I got my brain cells crossed up and was thinking the missing woman was the tall one.
 
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/36637/0
New to NamUs
Kim Charleson missing from Cannon Beach, OR 01/07/1976
Listed height is 63-65 inches but I see a resemblance to the reconstruction.
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I received an email today from the Snohomish County Coroner's Office (Jane Jorgensen).

"Hi (Uncool Negated),

Thank you for the tip. There is a resemblance, isn’t there? I will follow-up with New South Wales Police to see if our Jane Doe could possibly be Narelle Mary Cox.

When we first published our unidentified persons website, we did get a tip from Australia that our Jane Doe might be Christine Ruth Thornton, but NamUs ruled her out within a couple of days using fingerprints.

Thank you again, and please don’t hesitate to send us information on anyone else you may think is our Jane Doe.

Best Regards,

Jane


Jane Jorgensen
Investigator
Snohomish County Medical Examiner’s Office"

Could just be a rule out, but I thought you guys would want to know about an active lead that is being pursued. I'm excited but realize it could be a dead end too. Full story at my Linked-In page:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/snoh...ssie-narelle-lambert?trk=pulse_spock-articles
 
I received an email today from the Snohomish County Coroner's Office (Jane Jorgensen).

"Hi (Uncool Negated),

Thank you for the tip. There is a resemblance, isn’t there? I will follow-up with New South Wales Police to see if our Jane Doe could possibly be Narelle Mary Cox.

When we first published our unidentified persons website, we did get a tip from Australia that our Jane Doe might be Christine Ruth Thornton, but NamUs ruled her out within a couple of days using fingerprints.

Thank you again, and please don’t hesitate to send us information on anyone else you may think is our Jane Doe.

Best Regards,

Jane


Jane Jorgensen
Investigator
Snohomish County Medical Examiner’s Office"

Could just be a rule out, but I thought you guys would want to know about an active lead that is being pursued. I'm excited but realize it could be a dead end too. Full story at my Linked-In page:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/snoh...ssie-narelle-lambert?trk=pulse_spock-articles

I can't wait to hear an update. Thanks UncoolNegated.
 
Something interesting I noticed SJD's watch.

516UFWA_watch.JPG

We know it's a Timex, which was a popular brand back then. Looking through the Timex catalog (link) from 1977, I think I found the model of watch. It is close to this one:

Screen Shot.png

Two things you will notice about her watch vs the one in the catalog. One the hands and dial markers are lighter on hers. This could either be an older model, fading from being out in the sun, or simply lighting.

The watch line is called Cavatina, these are ladies dress watches.


However, the most important part, the straps are totally different. The strap she is wearing is called a bund strap--this is where the strap covers the back of watch. Looking through the catalog, there is not a single watch that has a bund strap. This is most likely an aftermarket strap.

So, with that being said, the important thing is this strap type doesn't seem to be very popular during this era. I looked at a Seiko catalog from 1974 (Timex and Seiko were ruling the watch market) I couldn't find a single watch with this strap type.

The only picture I could find someone wearing any type watch with the band was Paul Newman when he was racing in Le Mans in 1979.

Another possibility is she had a metal allergy and that prevented the back of the watch from touching her skin.

Major point--we have a ladies dress watch on an unusual aftermarket strap. I wonder if the Snohomish County PD have identified the manufacturer of the strap? I also wonder if this could have been a popular thing in a certain area of the county?
 
Update: One other thing I noticed about SJD's watch strap. It the wrong size for the watch. Look closely at the leather loops holding the spring pin. They don't cover the spring pins very well. This usually will cause the watch to move from side to side.

I am not sure the case diameter, but if it's a ladies watch it shouldn't be very big. This band is unusual because it seem to made for a really small watch. Most bund straps are made for men's sports watches, which are wider watches.

(P.S. I found a few other anomilies that might be helpful to the case. Not about the watch, but other stuff. But, I will post them later.)
 
The leather back straps were popular in the early 70s. The watch itself looks even older. Notice how the metal around the face of the catalog watch is sleek and smooth, while SJD's has some kind of ornamental twist? That was more popular earlier in the decade. But it's less ornate than sixties styles.

This kind of watch was often given as a high school graduation present, sixteenth birthday present, etc.



Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
 
The leather back straps were popular in the early 70s. The watch itself looks even older. Notice how the metal around the face of the catalog watch is sleek and smooth, while SJD's has some kind of ornamental twist? That was more popular earlier in the decade. But it's less ornate than sixties styles.

This kind of watch was often given as a high school graduation present, sixteenth birthday present, etc.



Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

I'm not seeing any ornamental design on SJD watch. Let me show a better picture I found.

vlcsnap-2017-07-27-00h05m29s455.png Screen Shot.png

It's almost an exact match.

Now, watch companies may go years without changing their basic designs. However, the watch itself can't be older than a couple of years, because the first Timex Quartz came out in 1972 and it was one model. Before that all their watches were mechanical. So, I would have to say the model isn't any older than 74. Unless it's mechanical.

As for the band, this might be worth submitting to the Snohomish County PD, that this is likely an aftermarket band. It might be worth looking into the manufacturer of the band.

Interesting point on the Bund strap being popular in the early 70's, didn't know that.
 
Okay, apparently what looked like twisted ornamentation in the other photo is just pixelation. Thanks for putting up the better photo.
 
A new article on this case...

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/genealogy-buffs-could-help-identify-woman-killed-in-1977/

DNA and genealogy could help identify a woman killed in 1977

EVERETT — Forty years ago the search for her name began with the discovery of her death.

Berry pickers came across the young woman’s body Aug. 14, 1977, in a wooded area in south Everett.

She was wearing a pastel, striped tank top, cut-off jean shorts and size seven blue Mr. Sneekers tennis shoes. A Timex watch with a yellow face was on her left wrist, the leather band fastened at the second-to-last notch. In the pockets of her shorts were 17 cents, a partial pack of Marlboros and an empty plastic bag.

She was brunette, tan and tall, maybe 5-feet, 10-inches. A forensic anthropologist later estimated she was between 15 and 21, likely 16 to 19.

The medical examiner dug seven bullets out of her head. Her killer would later tell detectives he wrapped a bungee cord around her neck when she turned down his advances. She urinated in the front seat of his car as he choked her. He dragged her out of the 1963 Chevy Nova and emptied his rifle into her.

....
 
Another recent article about this case:
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/08/jane-doe-murder-ancestry/536916/

They're hoping to do ancestral DNA on this case with the help of a forensic genealogist.

Since the Snohomish County sheriff’s office couldn’t find a match for Jane Doe’s DNA in federal databases, investigators wondered if they could find a family member’s DNA in online ones. But they needed help. So Scharf reached out to Colleen Fitzpatrick, a forensic genealogist based in California. She runsIdentifinders, a service that uses DNA samples to help clients locate people. That can include adoptive children looking for their birth parents, or police with a DNA sample from a crime but no hits in CODIS, an FBI database that stands for Combined DNA Index System. Using methods the company calls proprietary, Fitzpatrick compares an unidentified DNA sample with records across public genealogy websites.
 

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