WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #4

[Woodland]

Oooh, aaah dotr - DM anyone?

 

[Woodland]

A note from ccm - thread 2, page 6, post #137 -

Lyle doesn't fit the norm of the suicides I have investigated. The majority of them killed themselves at home, in their car, somewhere they feel comfortable. Very few have put this much forethought into it, which leads me to believe he is well educated. He didn't kill himself right away, he spent his last few days probably analyzing his situation. He probably read the paper to keep up on national events, such as the attacks, to confirm his decision to end his life. He may have just wanted something to read. If a person really wanted to disappear, they could walk miles into the woods (Grays Harbor is 1,900 square miles of woods). Lyle wanted his body to be found, to be taken care of, to be buried. I believe he just didn't want to burden his family. I handled a case years ago where the body of an older man was found on a hilltop outside a small town. The person had shot himself in the head. There was no identification, no jewelry, nothing. We put a description in the local paper. A woman called to tell us a male friend she grew up with had moved to Arizona years ago. The caller was friends with the mans wife, and the wife had informed the friend her husband had disappeared a month before. He left his truck, clothing, everything. We confirmed the dead man was the missing person from Arizona. Somewhere along the way, he disposed of his wallet, watch, and wedding ring, bought a bus ticket to Grays Harbor (to where he grew up years before) and killed himself. He was suffering some medical problems, and didn't want to burden his wife, so he chose to disappear. We know that Lyle isn't from Grays Harbor, but he may have lived here at one time, may have visited, or just went as far West as he could go.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-Harbor-17-Sept-2001-2&p=1195120#post1195120

 

[outofthedark]

Three of my own questions:

1. How do she remember everything else about his stay, but not if he had a backpack? If he did have one, what would he have had that was of value? If the mysterious backpack was stolen, was it before the cops showed up? I'd think that if was stolen while he was seen pacing around the highway, he would at least notice given all the attention that he gave to details.

2. I have my doubts that he arrived by bus. If he didn't come by bus, how did he get there? I think that he if was Canadian, he could have partially arrived via ferry.

3. What exactly might the staff not have told to LE?

An observation:

If there weren't any nearby banks, then he must have gotten the money from the bank that he was with. Did he have an American account as well if he was Canadian?

I have a hunch that he might be from the Lower Mainland area, and could be from around the Vancouver or Victoria areas. It takes only 4 and 5 hours from both cities, and I think he left for Grays Harbor on the same day that he arrived.

If CCM insinuated that he didn't believe that the staff wasn't 100% honest, this kind of sounds like that the staff wanted to sweep it under the rug. If he didn't elaborate on what they might have been dishonest about, is it too confidential or is it something that the staff could turn around and file a lawsuit if they happened upon any postings?

I think they should re-interview the maid WITHOUT the knowledge of B and her nephew. See what she'll say after 14 years. The fact that they didn't interview her a second time 14 years ago is really suspicious.

Could any of those people lurking on here?

 

[Woodland]

I'm thinking there might have been more crisp bills than the ones found in the note 'for the room'. Did the motel eventually get that money?

If LS arrive in the US from Canada, which I doubt but jmo, then it was before 9/11. Or before 9:00 am the morning of. Jmo. He may have had a vehicle that disappeared as well - we don't know that and neither does LE.

Definitely talk to the maid again. And post transcript here! Okay, not going to happen.

 

[emeraldine]

I got a chance to read over the consolidated posts by coldcaseman. A couple of things he mentioned put a couple of light bulbs on for me. In one post, he describes Lyle's handwriting as reminding him of the handwriting of doctors and other rushed medical professionals. In a different post he mentions that the placement of the belt was very well executed - placing pressure on both carotid arteries without placing too much pressure on the trachea. The first light bulb being the possibility that Lyle actually was a doctor, EMT or other medical professional. The second being, did Lyle die of asphyxia in the sense of the word as most of us perceive it (strangulation preventing O2 from entering the lungs and thereby preventing it from going to the brain), or was death actually the result of the blood flow carrying the dissolved O2 being cut off to the brain? The result is essentially the same: there is no O2 getting to the brain cells, so the cells begin to die. I can see "asphyxiation" being the technically correct cause of death in either case, but I can see the second method being much quicker and less uncomfortable. Again, if Lyle specifically planned to cut off the blood flow while avoiding the pain of the hunger for air, that hints further that he may have had a career in the medical field or have been a med student at some point.

Agreed; it would have been a much quicker way to die(at least, to fall unconscious), so he wouldn't have had to feel so miserable for so long. It would also explain why his eyes looked so...I guess "clear" is the word. He looked alive, to me, in the photos. There were no obvious signs of trauma, swelling/bruising(though the washcloth could have helped minimize those things, too, depending on where it was), discoloration, or even of the cause of death(bear in mind, though, I haven't seen the suicide photos; I'm just going by his face).

I'd expect someone in the medical field to be as fastidious and clean as he was...really, a lot of signs point to what you're saying. He just looks like a very precise person all around, and maybe even a slight germophobe. The demands of that sort of job(especially on someone who seemed so young) might even explain the weight loss.

I would think the absence of someone who would be working with so many people on that kind of level would be noticed very quickly, though(and it would be noticed even more quickly if he was still a student). That's the only problem.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Fwiw..

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/7mistakes.htm

"The Seven Major Mistakes in Suicide Investigation"

They couldn't answer so many of those questions to make a determination on his behavior and past history. Interesting read.

I did notice in the photos the hands on the homicide victim left to appear as a suicide were near the same position as Lyle's. Do hands naturally go into a semi-curled position after you lose consciousness? I never thought about it before, but I assumed they would be outstretched in a defensive type of position because of fighting for oxygen or the thrashing talked about on some sites.

 

[emeraldine]

I'd never seen pictures of the hotel, before...it's so tiny and unassuming! Surely he would have had to know about the place beforehand.

I agree that the maid was probably trying to convince herself she didn't see what she saw, and that calling the manager over a person she actually did think was praying probably wouldn't happen.

Why was she not available for questioning? Did she quit, move away, feel too traumatized by the discovery to talk about it any further(which would be understandable, imo)?

 

[Woodland]

The maid did not give a statement to LE on 17 Sep - either in speaking to LE or giving a written statement. LE did speak to her at some point later on though, at least I think so, based on ccm wanting to re-interview her later on. And I suppose the maid was a she.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I'd never seen pictures of the hotel, before...it's so tiny and unassuming! Surely he would have had to know about the place beforehand.

I agree that the maid was probably trying to convince herself she didn't see what she saw, and that calling the manager over a person she actually did think was praying probably wouldn't happen.

Why was she not available for questioning? Did she quit, move away, feel too traumatized by the discovery to talk about it any further(which would be understandable, imo)?

I don't understand why it wasn't followed up on by the detective. I am surprised no one thought it necessary to have the person who found the body make a formal statement even if they had to go out of town in order to obtain it. Being traumatized is not an excuse to avoid giving a statement to LE unless it is severe. There was no blood or gore associated with the find and the trauma, imo, would be minimized for the finder. After all, praying was the initial reaction.

 

[Woodland]

Fwiw, doubt praying was the initial thought. Would really like to see the statement she eventually gave, assuming that happened.

 

[emeraldine]

I think her mind could have been "playing tricks on her" to protect her from the trauma, if anything...but, she most likely had full conscious knowledge of what she saw.

If she wouldn't want to be interviewed again, she could always provide a written statement - writing about the events as she's comfortable(or with the help of someone who can be supportive), and then giving it to the authorities when she's done. She wouldn't have to go through the stress of recollecting it all at once, face-to-face, with someone who might intimidate her to begin with.

 

[Woodland]

DM phoned in his fathers suicide and LE ruled it a suicide. Now he's facing charges for his fathers murder. Just like your article said could happen.

 

[Kentuckiana]

I'd never seen pictures of the hotel, before...it's so tiny and unassuming! Surely he would have had to know about the place beforehand.

I agree that the maid was probably trying to convince herself she didn't see what she saw, and that calling the manager over a person she actually did think was praying probably wouldn't happen.

Why was she not available for questioning? Did she quit, move away, feel too traumatized by the discovery to talk about it any further(which would be understandable, imo)?

I agree. Remember, too, the state of utter disbelief and shock that everyone was still in from 9/11. To walk in on something like that so few days after watching the Towers come down on TV, and having your mind completely rejecting the reality of what your eyes are seeing on the TV screen when they did, absolutely could have had that effect. Within an hour of the second tower falling, there were sirens screaming down the road to my apartment complex. I ran outside to see what was happening and flames were shooting out of the top of the building right next to mine. I was already in such a state of shock and to have that going on so soon, while I was still trying to process the Towers, the Pentagon and the possibility of more planes that hadn't attacked yet, I just lost it. I remember standing in our parking lot yelling "WTF? WTF? WTF?" over and over. Other neighbors were reacting just as bad, in their own way. I can definitely see walking in on a suicide so close to 9/11 just being way too much, way too soon.

 

[Kentuckiana]

DM phoned in his fathers suicide and LE ruled it a suicide. Now he's facing charges for his fathers murder. Just like your article said could happen.

I'm still confused. Or is this a private conversation?

 

[Kentuckiana]

What gets me is the money - not sure which one of you mentioned it, but he may have withdrawn that from an ATM and I bet the store has an ATM inside of it. I didn't see any notes about interviewing the staff at the store. He got the newspaper(s) from somewhere. He got the cup from somewhere. From what I could tell on Google maps, he had to have gotten those things from the store. I can see why they didn't see if he got off the bus. The store appears to block the view of the bus stop. Someone made a very valid point that if he came from Canada, he either had to have come by road or he had to have flown in prior to the planes coming down on the 11th, which would have been before 5 am on the 11th on the west coast. The more I think about it, the less I believe he came from Canada. As far as being missed if he was a medical professional, he wouldn't be missed if he had resigned his position first. Paramedics and EMTs would be even less likely to be missed and students do drop out. I think he was older than the general consensus is. I think he was around 35 years old. He paid for one night then said he would be staying a few more days. Why was that? Did he decide while he was there to commit suicide and do it there? Had he intended to commit suicide the first night, then have second thoughts, requiring more time to talk himself into going through with it? If he was intent on committing suicide, I would think that he would get up every morning thinking "today is the day" - but he asked for fresh towels on Saturday. So, had he set a date that he intended to do it? If so, why wouldn't he pay in advance for days up to the day he intended to commit suicide? The pacing out on the highway is weird. There were more pleasant places to walk if walking was his sole intention. Was he trying to get up the nerve to jump out in front of a moving vehicle? Was he waiting for someone or something that didn't show up? Was someone supposed to come get him from the motel and he got stood up? It's really starting to make me wonder if he came there with the intention of committing suicide at all. For the record, I don't think he was murdered. I am starting to believe that what he wanted to happen at the motel did not go as planned, though.

 

[Spurser]

I just looked at the crime scene photos and noticed the pillows placed between the wall and closet bars. Why do u think he did that? Noise reduction? So no one could hear him struggling? It seems odd to me and I'm just curious what you all think? Forgive me if this has already been asked.

 

[emeraldine]

It does look like there's a private conversation going on in the background, yes.

 

[Spurser]

I wonder if someone could do a rendition of what he would look like 40 pounds heavier. His bone structure may not have looked so prominent/chiseled with more weight on him. Maybe thats what's throwing people off.

 

[emeraldine]

What gets me is the money - not sure which one of you mentioned it, but he may have withdrawn that from an ATM and I bet the store has an ATM inside of it. I didn't see any notes about interviewing the staff at the store. He got the newspaper(s) from somewhere. He got the cup from somewhere. From what I could tell on Google maps, he had to have gotten those things from the store. I can see why they didn't see if he got off the bus. The store appears to block the view of the bus stop. Someone made a very valid point that if he came from Canada, he either had to have come by road or he had to have flown in prior to the planes coming down on the 11th, which would have been before 5 am on the 11th on the west coast. The more I think about it, the less I believe he came from Canada. As far as being missed if he was a medical professional, he wouldn't be missed if he had resigned his position first. Paramedics and EMTs would be even less likely to be missed and students do drop out. I think he was older than the general consensus is. I think he was around 35 years old. He paid for one night then said he would be staying a few more days. Why was that? Did he decide while he was there to commit suicide and do it there? Had he intended to commit suicide the first night, then have second thoughts, requiring more time to talk himself into going through with it? If he was intent on committing suicide, I would think that he would get up every morning thinking "today is the day" - but he asked for fresh towels on Saturday. So, had he set a date that he intended to do it? If so, why wouldn't he pay in advance for days up to the day he intended to commit suicide? The pacing out on the highway is weird. There were more pleasant places to walk if walking was his sole intention. Was he trying to get up the nerve to jump out in front of a moving vehicle? Was he waiting for someone or something that didn't show up? Was someone supposed to come get him from the motel and he got stood up? It's really starting to make me wonder if he came there with the intention of committing suicide at all. For the record, I don't think he was murdered. I am starting to believe that what he wanted to happen at the motel did not go as planned, though.

They should have interviewed the store employees if they didn't. He would surely have been noticeable, since he was so tall and skinny(and maybe already acting strangely at that point). Getting money from an ATM is a good possibility - and I think you're the only person I've ever seen mention it...!

He doesn't strike me as the type who'd jump out in front of a vehicle(or do this at the spur of the moment at all). It's so potentially painful and messy, and can backfire disastrously. I think he was just trying to "outrun his demons," so to speak, on the highway. He was on the edge of an enormous decision. I think he was maybe waiting for a certain "last thing" to happen, before he could "go," and was getting restless because he didn't know when that thing would happen(but would have figured that it had to happen sometime within the next few days after checking into the hotel).

The method he chose seems to have been decided upon before he got there, what with him "messing up pillows" in the first room already.

I agree with the bolded text, and I also don't think he was murdered. I've talked to people who think he was, and think it's natural to feel sadness when someone dies in such a gruesome way. It's very tempting to imagine someone's still out there who could be held accountable for what happened.

It seems unlikely to me that he flew to that location - even though he would have had to arrive pre-9/11, I'd think that the lists of people who had been on any flight that landed in the US shortly(days, weeks, 1-2 months?) before that date would have been meticulously searched.

 

[emeraldine]

I wonder if someone could do a rendition of what he would look like 40 pounds heavier. His bone structure may not have looked so prominent/chiseled with more weight on him. Maybe thats what's throwing people off.

Someone posted one a couple pages back, but I don't remember who/where. I don't know if even 40 lbs. would have made much of a difference in his facial structure because of his features(and because he wouldn't have any "excess" weight even then, at that height), but his neck and such would certainly have been thicker.

I wonder if he started out with longer hair or even facial hair, and nobody would recognize him without those things.