WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

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brett1968

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It's great to see so much activity on this thread!

I haven't heard back from any authorities on whether Ilija Dukic is or isn't... yet.

The wheels grind slowly, however Lyle's case manager has taken the info for comparison as per roselvr (and thanks very much, too.)

Just to throw this in for discussion, who thinks that the name Lyle Stevik, (spelled deliberately distinctly differently from the actual name of the character in the book, 'You Must Remember This') was used deliberately by Lyle so that, despite him dying without id there would be a future search for his identity and somehow somewhere, someone that he wanted to know of his demise would somehow receive the message?

Given that the character Lyle Stevick spends his happiest moments staring at a noose he's suicidally prepared earlier, may I inquire as to who thinks that this is just a coincidence?

I am waning on the side of this being a deliberate act on Lyle's part with a full knowledge of the book, the character and the future effect that this mystery would have on the denizens of the electronic internet forum, which has lead to its perpetuation. I think he left out the 'c' so as there would be no confusion.

As for the crisp banknote, he really could have collected it anywhere earlier in his travels at any point in the past.

I also wonder if the catalytic effect upon his decision to actually follow through with his suicidal ideation wasn't so much the effects of 9/11 and the recent announcements of security crackdowns, particularly on identity proofs and suspect that it perhaps had more to do with the loss of finances, this being perhaps a theft from his room of a large sum of cash that he was using to finance himself?

I also believe that the scratches on his knuckles are from part of a bolt lock on an outhouse which he was struggling to open a short time before and that he accidentally caught his hand on the screws when moving the body of Brock Stone whose details can be found here.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-River-WhtMale-334UMON-28-40-Sep-01-*GRAPHIC*

This uid also was found with travel and hotel paraphernalia in his possessions indicating time spent traveling and staying in hotels as we know Lyle may have done also. These two men appear to be of a similar age and Bret Stone wore very expensive glasses indicating being perhaps the financier of their travels?

I honestly feel there's a connection between them due to the numerous similarities in their circumstances and the proximity of their places of death and the very close time frame.

I think Stone's death was also a contributing factor in Lyle's ultimate decision.

Any thoughts please?
 

carbuff

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It's great to see so much activity on this thread!

I haven't heard back from any authorities on whether Ilija Dukic is or isn't... yet.

The wheels grind slowly, however Lyle's case manager has taken the info for comparison as per roselvr (and thanks very much, too.)

Just to throw this in for discussion, who thinks that the name Lyle Stevik, (spelled deliberately distinctly differently from the actual name of the character in the book, 'You Must Remember This') was used deliberately by Lyle so that, despite him dying without id there would be a future search for his identity and somehow somewhere, someone that he wanted to know of his demise would somehow receive the message?

Given that the character Lyle Stevick spends his happiest moments staring at a noose he's suicidally prepared earlier, may I inquire as to who thinks that this is just a coincidence?

I am waning on the side of this being a deliberate act on Lyle's part with a full knowledge of the book, the character and the future effect that this mystery would have on the denizens of the electronic internet forum, which has lead to its perpetuation. I think he left out the 'c' so as there would be no confusion.

As for the crisp banknote, he really could have collected it anywhere earlier in his travels at any point in the past.

I also wonder if the catalytic effect upon his decision to actually follow through with his suicidal ideation wasn't so much the effects of 9/11 and the recent announcements of security crackdowns, particularly on identity proofs and suspect that it perhaps had more to do with the loss of finances, this being perhaps a theft from his room of a large sum of cash that he was using to finance himself?

I also believe that the scratches on his knuckles are from part of a bolt lock on an outhouse which he was struggling to open a short time before and that he accidentally caught his hand on the screws when moving the body of Brock Stone whose details can be found here.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-River-WhtMale-334UMON-28-40-Sep-01-*GRAPHIC*

This uid also was found with travel and hotel paraphernalia in his possessions indicating time spent traveling and staying in hotels as we know Lyle may have done also. These two men appear to be of a similar age and Bret Stone wore very expensive glasses indicating being perhaps the financier of their travels?

I honestly feel there's a connection between them due to the numerous similarities in their circumstances and the proximity of their places of death and the very close time frame.

I think Stone's death was also a contributing factor in Lyle's ultimate decision.

Any thoughts please?

Isn't "Stone" the guy they found in the Laurentian Hills in Ontario? Yes, the dates are close, but Ontario wasn't near Washington state the last time I looked. Unless there was an earthquake I didn't hear about?
 

SeriouslySearching

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Starvation(or even regularly skipping meals) will bring the metabolism down and result in a hypothyroid condition. That, too, will create weight loss, because the person is gradually less and less capable of digesting the food he eats. It would also explain his "spaced out" behavior.

If he was hyperthyroid, and had been for long enough to lose 30 lbs., I'd expect his eyes to start bulging and his lower limbs to start swelling up. His nervousness and pacing could be seen as symptoms of it, though.

To test for either, they usually do a separate thyroid panel - but, CBC and/or metabolic profile(what they probably did on him) can detect some symptoms/effects of either. Whether or not they'd tie those symptoms to a thyroid issue is another thing entirely, though.

Of course, if he actively starved himself, there would be signs in the CBC, too, regardless of thyroid involvement. He'd have low potassium, fewer white blood cells, noticeable loss of heart muscle, etc. Surely, they'd have seen it and commented on it.

It's hard to say what was wrong with him, but it is really hard for me to believe he was healthy, even if they didn't see anything wrong with him during the autopsy. Healthy people don't drop 30 lbs. in a "recent" timeframe. Even people with thyroid problems usually don't, unless they suddenly get a tumor in that area or something.

I still say he went to a thrift store and bought whatever clothes he could afford - maybe before the weight loss, maybe after. The money he was carrying might have been the only money he had left - he drained his bank account and then went to the hotel.
But maybe he didn't drop any weight at all. Not sure where the 30lb weight loss came from, but how would anyone really know? A guess from the belt and the loose clothing isn't reliable.
 

SeriouslySearching

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It's great to see so much activity on this thread!

I haven't heard back from any authorities on whether Ilija Dukic is or isn't... yet.

The wheels grind slowly, however Lyle's case manager has taken the info for comparison as per roselvr (and thanks very much, too.)

Just to throw this in for discussion, who thinks that the name Lyle Stevik, (spelled deliberately distinctly differently from the actual name of the character in the book, 'You Must Remember This') was used deliberately by Lyle so that, despite him dying without id there would be a future search for his identity and somehow somewhere, someone that he wanted to know of his demise would somehow receive the message?

Given that the character Lyle Stevick spends his happiest moments staring at a noose he's suicidally prepared earlier, may I inquire as to who thinks that this is just a coincidence?

I am waning on the side of this being a deliberate act on Lyle's part with a full knowledge of the book, the character and the future effect that this mystery would have on the denizens of the electronic internet forum, which has lead to its perpetuation. I think he left out the 'c' so as there would be no confusion.

As for the crisp banknote, he really could have collected it anywhere earlier in his travels at any point in the past.

I also wonder if the catalytic effect upon his decision to actually follow through with his suicidal ideation wasn't so much the effects of 9/11 and the recent announcements of security crackdowns, particularly on identity proofs and suspect that it perhaps had more to do with the loss of finances, this being perhaps a theft from his room of a large sum of cash that he was using to finance himself?

I also believe that the scratches on his knuckles are from part of a bolt lock on an outhouse which he was struggling to open a short time before and that he accidentally caught his hand on the screws when moving the body of Brock Stone whose details can be found here.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-River-WhtMale-334UMON-28-40-Sep-01-*GRAPHIC*

This uid also was found with travel and hotel paraphernalia in his possessions indicating time spent traveling and staying in hotels as we know Lyle may have done also. These two men appear to be of a similar age and Bret Stone wore very expensive glasses indicating being perhaps the financier of their travels?

I honestly feel there's a connection between them due to the numerous similarities in their circumstances and the proximity of their places of death and the very close time frame.

I think Stone's death was also a contributing factor in Lyle's ultimate decision.

Any thoughts please?
It would be a great idea for a book, but I don't see how we can connect any of those dots realistically. There is zero evidence connecting them. Unless LE could match DNA from Stone to something at the scene where Lyle was found or visa versa, that is a non-starter to investigate, imo.
 

Sutton

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No, I was legitimately worried it might keep someone off this forum - I'm not offended, myself(except maybe if you think something's going to tick me off when I didn't say that). :)

What you are saying makes perfect sense.

Thanks for explaining. You're right-- religious "preachiness" is not a good tone for WS. I didn't mean to come off that way. I try to be open & accepting to religions other than my own, and I overcompensated.

I appreciated many of your earlier comments. Glad we're still posting together.
 

Sutton

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Certainly a good and valid question Sutton - Imo, LS hung himself - unless someone can point out why it is suspicious. [BOLD]How would one be able to manipulate/coerce someone into the position LS was found and leave a tidy scene?[/BOLD] Drugs/alcohol would render someone submissive, however, getting them to stand still and then kneel after tying their belt the was it was found seems unlikely to me - thrashing/dragging would be involved and not leave ones person or clothing untouched. Jmo.

But, after reviewing the photos and case files (giving a visual on the scene) why would a guy dispose of his belongings and ID only to be found deceased in a motel room? We have precedent here (which means zip on a case by case basis) of people leaving a note with a false name and instructions on what to do with their remains after committing suicide. The same people brought belongings with them - clothing, CD player, Christmas tree and defined their right not to be identified.

So I don't get this case. While it might be a one off so to speak, why dispose of a razor, clothing etc and leave a note stating 'Suicide' and nothing else?

Fwiw, I bought into the motel owners story until I saw the case files - too many questions imo.

That's why I believe it was suicide. I do not think it is possible to force a 6'2" man to hang himself in this manner. Toxicology tests were clean. For it to be homicide, would have to be murdered elsewhere and then a scene staged with matching physical evidence. Unless I'm overlooking something?

I think Lyle threw out all belongings in order to be as neat as possible. I would do the same thing (stupid, I know, because there's a body here someone is going to have to deal with, but I would pack my belongings in a bag or throw them out).

I agree--The SUICIDE note is confusing. And the case files leave more questions. Seriously, can LE just re-interview the maid? And everyone else?
 

Sutton

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...I also believe that the scratches on his knuckles are from part of a bolt lock on an outhouse which he was struggling to open a short time before and that he accidentally caught his hand on the screws when moving the body of Brock Stone whose details can be found here.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-River-WhtMale-334UMON-28-40-Sep-01-*GRAPHIC*

This uid also was found with travel and hotel paraphernalia in his possessions indicating time spent traveling and staying in hotels as we know Lyle may have done also. These two men appear to be of a similar age and Bret Stone wore very expensive glasses indicating being perhaps the financier of their travels?

I honestly feel there's a connection between them due to the numerous similarities in their circumstances and the proximity of their places of death and the very close time frame.

I think Stone's death was also a contributing factor in Lyle's ultimate decision.

Any thoughts please?
RSBM. That's quite a theory to just throw out there! It seems a bit fantastical to me, but not totally outside the realm of possibility.

The only thing they have in common is 1.) Male, 2.) Unidentified, 3.) Died in Sept. 2001...well I guess BW did say Lyle might have had a faint Canadian accent.

I like this kind of thinking outside the box.
 

emeraldine

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But maybe he didn't drop any weight at all. Not sure where the 30lb weight loss came from, but how would anyone really know? A guess from the belt and the loose clothing isn't reliable.

I haven't read this anywhere else but on this forum(so far), but people are saying he had visible stretch marks. If so, that doesn't guarantee he lost weight(doesn't virtually everybody have some hint of stretch marks from all the sudden childhood growth spurts? maybe), but it could be what they're going by.

I wish they had originally been more clear about why they thought what they thought. Hopefully it was for some other reason than just his clothes - I mean, I could go around wearing giant pants like the people in the diet commercials do, but I would hope people wouldn't start saying I just lost 30 lbs. because of it. ;)
 

Sutton

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I haven't read this anywhere else but on this forum(so far), but people are saying he had visible stretch marks. If so, that doesn't guarantee he lost weight(doesn't virtually everybody have some hint of stretch marks from all the sudden childhood growth spurts? maybe), but it could be what they're going by.

I wish they had originally been more clear about why they thought what they thought. Hopefully it was for some other reason than just his clothes - I mean, I could go around wearing giant pants like the people in the diet commercials do, but I would hope people wouldn't start saying I just lost 30 lbs. because of it. ;)

Has anyone here ever gotten stretch marks from LOSING weight?
 

brett1968

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A non starter, granted.

These are the similarities that I have noted between Bret Stone and Lyle Stevik

1. Both men were dressed in the fashion of hikers. Including well worn boots (quite obvious on Lyle's crime scene photos).

2. They both had a psychologically expressed (in Lyle's case an address given as a previous residence which was actually a hotel address) or a physical link to a hotel of some type as also found amongst Bret Stone's possessions ie a paper tag from a discount hotel chain in Costa Rica.

3. They were around the same age range.

4. I believe that Bret Stone who had overdosed on caffeine pills, (a sure way to purge weight, gain endurance and to walk at night, as illegal immigrants are most likely to do to gain safe passage, traveling at night especially to cross borders at unguarded points in National Parks for example, as illegal immigrants might be forced to do by circumstance), such as I believe these two were.

5. The rapid weight loss evident in Lyle makes sense if he was the friend of a someone who used caffeine pills regularly when changing time zones and he also took them himself.

6.There is a feasible distance to travel in the period between Lyle's arrival at Amamda Park WA and a departure from Laurentian Hills Deep River On

7. Also, if one looks at the odd circumstances in the 'concealment' of Bret Stone's body in an out house out in the forest at a time of year when there's no snow around, which the outhouse had obviously been built to cater for, making the fact anyone who was one their own, might choose to use one seems remarkably odd.
Given what I do in the forest when nature calls, when alone, is quite different to when others are around.

If there were someone with me I might choose to use the out house out of 'propriety's' sake, which may also have been the case if Lyle and Bret were together.

This leads me to suspect that Bret Stone didn't die alone, but had his body hidden by Lyle Stevik, as Lyle didn't want people to notice them being together in recent memory (had Lyle and Stone passed anyone on the forest track, which they most likely had).
Lyle didn't want any police looking for him because of a dead body he was associated with lying out in the open, as he was an an illegal immigrant.

8. The fact that there was no ID at all on Stone indicates someone may have at least taken his wallet, also indicating evidence of a possible companion.


I base my assumptions on the fact that Lyle Stevik was Ilija Dukic and he took off, deserted the army during the Summer of 1991 when the song, 'Smells like Teen Spirit' came out and, as anyone who was there at that time might understand, what 19-20 year old young soldier who found himself in the middle of an an unwanted and very gory and brutal war, might not think to himself,

'I'm going to swim across that river and get outta here',

(which, as a previous poster from Croatia pointed out, is the very river that someone would want to cross in order to make an escape from that nation, to ostensibly 'Go party.'

Maybe Bret Stone had aided his escape and funded it to some extent, if Ilija didn't have some form of ongoing secret support financially from overseas in his home country.

Perhaps he walked across Alaska?
Possibly that's how he got to America eventually.
Stranger things have been done and war is a very powerful catalyst for the movement of people as evidenced by the movements of nations and races throughout human history.

To virtually prove (imo)that it's Ilija Dukic, please check this computer generated 3d facial comparison of Ilija Dukic and photos of Lyle Stevik on youtube put up by a colleague of tear-drop

[video=youtube;5ablAliqnk0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ablAliqnk0[/video]

Please, particularly note at the point when the mouths on both photographs are overlaid, at 1.05 and it's impossible to tell the difference between them.


It would be a great
2. They both had a psychologically expressed or a physical link to a hotel of some type.
idea for a book, but I don't see how we can connect any of those dots realistically. There is zero evidence connecting them. Unless LE could match DNA from Stone to something at the scene where Lyle was found or visa versa, that is a non-starter to investigate, imo.
 

Snoopster

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Okay, I'm sorry, but why are we discussing Jesus and religion in this thread?

If Lyle bookmarked those passages in the Bible, there could have been some significance to them in his mind, and that should of course be discussed...however, it may offend some posters(Jewish, Muslim, atheist, or those who simply have had bad experiences with Christianity) to see the religious aspects of those passages promoted(that is, described as "prophetic" or "comforting" and read out like a sermon is being given) - in other words, people could read this and get the message that Christianity is the religion of choice for this site.

That's going to tick some people off.

(Note: I, personally, am a Christian. I just don't see the reason to do this in this way.)

Thanks for your concern for non-Christians emeraldine. From my perspective though, I'm an atheist and I am certainly not ticked off at this discussion. I think it's relevant and important and don't know why it would upset the groups you mention. We all want to understand what LS could have been thinking or what message he could have been sending.

Luckily we aren't posting on the comment section of a news site as no doubt we'd be hearing from the extreme angry atheists and the extreme angry Christian fundamentalists! Luckily for us, the folks here on WS are simply caring people who want to solve this mystery!

I for one would appreciate hearing from Christians, or otherwise, as to their interpretations of that Bible section.
 

Snoopster

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A non starter, granted.

These are the similarities that I have noted between Bret Stone and Lyle Stevik

1. Both men were dressed in the fashion of hikers. Including well worn boots (quite obvious on Lyle's crime scene photos).

2. They both had a psychologically expressed (in Lyle's case an address given as a previous residence which was actually a hotel address) or a physical link to a hotel of some type as also found amongst Bret Stone's possessions ie a paper tag from a discount hotel chain in Costa Rica.

3. They were around the same age range.

4. I believe that Bret Stone who had overdosed on caffeine pills, (a sure way to purge weight, gain endurance and to walk at night, as illegal immigrants are most likely to do to gain safe passage, traveling at night especially to cross borders at unguarded points in National Parks for example, as illegal immigrants might be forced to do by circumstance), such as I believe these two were.

5. The rapid weight loss evident in Lyle makes sense if he was the friend of a someone who used caffeine pills regularly when changing time zones and he also took them himself.

6.There is a feasible distance to travel in the period between Lyle's arrival at Amamda Park WA and a departure from Laurentian Hills Deep River On

7. Also, if one looks at the odd circumstances in the 'concealment' of Bret Stone's body in an out house out in the forest at a time of year when there's no snow around, which the outhouse had obviously been built to cater for, making the fact anyone who was one their own, might choose to use one seems remarkably odd.
Given what I do in the forest when nature calls, when alone, is quite different to when others are around.

If there were someone with me I might choose to use the out house out of 'propriety's' sake, which may also have been the case if Lyle and Bret were together.

This leads me to suspect that Bret Stone didn't die alone, but had his body hidden by Lyle Stevik, as Lyle didn't want people to notice them being together in recent memory (had Lyle and Stone passed anyone on the forest track, which they most likely had).
Lyle didn't want any police looking for him because of a dead body he was associated with lying out in the open, as he was an an illegal immigrant.

8. The fact that there was no ID at all on Stone indicates someone may have at least taken his wallet, also indicating evidence of a possible companion.


I base my assumptions on the fact that Lyle Stevik was Ilija Dukic and he took off, deserted the army during the Summer of 1991 when the song, 'Smells like Teen Spirit' came out and, as anyone who was there at that time might understand, what 19-20 year old young soldier who found himself in the middle of an an unwanted and very gory and brutal war, might not think to himself,

'I'm going to swim across that river and get outta here',

(which, as a previous poster from Croatia pointed out, is the very river that someone would want to cross in order to make an escape from that nation, to ostensibly 'Go party.'

Maybe Bret Stone had aided his escape and funded it to some extent, if Ilija didn't have some form of ongoing secret support financially from overseas in his home country.

Perhaps he walked across Alaska?
Possibly that's how he got to America eventually.
Stranger things have been done and war is a very powerful catalyst for the movement of people as evidenced by the movements of nations and races throughout human history.

To virtually prove (imo)that it's Ilija Dukic, please check this computer generated 3d facial comparison of Ilija Dukic and photos of Lyle Stevik on youtube put up by a colleague of tear-drop

[video=youtube;5ablAliqnk0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ablAliqnk0[/video]

Please, particularly note at the point when the mouths on both photographs are overlaid, at 1.05 and it's impossible to tell the difference between them.

Amazing work brett!!

Holy crap! I never noticed that one eye was more droopy that the other, the difference that I focused on between LS and Dukic was that Dukic's eyebrows seemed lower....but that could simply be due to the fact that LS's photo is postmortem.

I was in Croatia (and Bosnia) a few weeks ago and spoke with a number of people who had fought in the war...most of whom didn't really want to but circumstances simply required it. I likely wouldn't have been of any use researching Dukic, but now I'm kicking myself for not even thinking about it.
 

emeraldine

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A non starter, granted.

These are the similarities that I have noted between Bret Stone and Lyle Stevik

1. Both men were dressed in the fashion of hikers. Including well worn boots (quite obvious on Lyle's crime scene photos).

2. They both had a psychologically expressed (in Lyle's case an address given as a previous residence which was actually a hotel address) or a physical link to a hotel of some type as also found amongst Bret Stone's possessions ie a paper tag from a discount hotel chain in Costa Rica.

3. They were around the same age range.

4. I believe that Bret Stone who had overdosed on caffeine pills, (a sure way to purge weight, gain endurance and to walk at night, as illegal immigrants are most likely to do to gain safe passage, traveling at night especially to cross borders at unguarded points in National Parks for example, as illegal immigrants might be forced to do by circumstance), such as I believe these two were.

5. The rapid weight loss evident in Lyle makes sense if he was the friend of a someone who used caffeine pills regularly when changing time zones and he also took them himself.

6.There is a feasible distance to travel in the period between Lyle's arrival at Amamda Park WA and a departure from Laurentian Hills Deep River On

7. Also, if one looks at the odd circumstances in the 'concealment' of Bret Stone's body in an out house out in the forest at a time of year when there's no snow around, which the outhouse had obviously been built to cater for, making the fact anyone who was one their own, might choose to use one seems remarkably odd.
Given what I do in the forest when nature calls, when alone, is quite different to when others are around.

If there were someone with me I might choose to use the out house out of 'propriety's' sake, which may also have been the case if Lyle and Bret were together.

This leads me to suspect that Bret Stone didn't die alone, but had his body hidden by Lyle Stevik, as Lyle didn't want people to notice them being together in recent memory (had Lyle and Stone passed anyone on the forest track, which they most likely had).
Lyle didn't want any police looking for him because of a dead body he was associated with lying out in the open, as he was an an illegal immigrant.

8. The fact that there was no ID at all on Stone indicates someone may have at least taken his wallet, also indicating evidence of a possible companion.


I base my assumptions on the fact that Lyle Stevik was Ilija Dukic and he took off, deserted the army during the Summer of 1991 when the song, 'Smells like Teen Spirit' came out and, as anyone who was there at that time might understand, what 19-20 year old young soldier who found himself in the middle of an an unwanted and very gory and brutal war, might not think to himself,

'I'm going to swim across that river and get outta here',

(which, as a previous poster from Croatia pointed out, is the very river that someone would want to cross in order to make an escape from that nation, to ostensibly 'Go party.'

Maybe Bret Stone had aided his escape and funded it to some extent, if Ilija didn't have some form of ongoing secret support financially from overseas in his home country.

Perhaps he walked across Alaska?
Possibly that's how he got to America eventually.
Stranger things have been done and war is a very powerful catalyst for the movement of people as evidenced by the movements of nations and races throughout human history.

To virtually prove (imo)that it's Ilija Dukic, please check this computer generated 3d facial comparison of Ilija Dukic and photos of Lyle Stevik on youtube put up by a colleague of tear-drop

[video=youtube;5ablAliqnk0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ablAliqnk0[/video]

Please, particularly note at the point when the mouths on both photographs are overlaid, at 1.05 and it's impossible to tell the difference between them.

Out of everyone who's been put forth as a possible match, Dukic resembles Lyle the most. If they're the same person, I'm surprised there hasn't been more "movement" on either of their cases...but, I see that a lot of these sorts of things(unfortunately) require the general public to either "prod" or "call around" until the right kind of action is taken.

You make some good points about the similarities between Bret and Lyle, however unlikely it seems to me that they were connected. If Bret's cause of death was undetermined(and, therefore, wasn't ruled a homicide), I don't see why Lyle would need to either hide the body or fear implication even if he could be proven to have known him.

I'm also not sure what you're trying to say toward the end of your post, or what the Nirvana song has to do with Lyle's situation(or Dukic's). Kurt Cobain did live in Aberdeen when he was young, and he also committed suicide, but that was in 1994 - Lyle did not do the same until 2001.
 

Snoopster

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Amazing work brett!!

Holy crap! I never noticed that one eye was more droopy that the other, the difference that I focused on between LS and Dukic was that Dukic's eyebrows seemed lower....but that could simply be due to the fact that LS's photo is postmordem.

I was in Croatia (and Bosnia) a few weeks ago and spoke with a number of people who had fought in the war...most of whom didn't really want to but circumstances simply required it. I likely wouldn't have been of any use researching Dukic, but now I'm kicking myself for not even thinking about it.

Sorry to quote myself, but I had another point I wanted to make.

I just wanted to add that I see a possible connection to Bret Stone (proximity in time; no identification; tidy, casual, yet nice attire; excellent dental work; signs of rapid weight loss; no signs of transportation to ultimate site; possible Canadian connection, etc.). I also see the visual similarities between LS and Dukic.

I find each of these "connections" plausible, however to have all 3 connected seems a longer shot to me. I have trouble thinking of what the connection between Bret Stone and Dukic would be. Is there a reason why you think BS is connected to Dukic, brett1968?
 

emeraldine

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Thanks for your concern for non-Christians emeraldine. From my perspective though, I'm an atheist and I am certainly not ticked off at this discussion. I think it's relevant and important and don't know why it would upset the groups you mention. We all want to understand what LS could have been thinking or what message he could have been sending.

Luckily we aren't posting on the comment section of a news site as no doubt we'd be hearing from the extreme angry atheists and the extreme angry Christian fundamentalists! Luckily for us, the folks here on WS are simply caring people who want to solve this mystery!

I for one would appreciate hearing from Christians, or otherwise, as to their interpretations of that Bible section.

My main reasoning at the time came from the suggestion that Lyle could have been from a radical religious group, or else was connected to 9/11 in some way. This is also a thread about identifying a man, rather than about extolling the mysteries and specific beliefs of any one religion(especially over another). Given the conversation that we had after I made that comment, and the greater clarity there is now, I don't see how anyone could be offended by what was really said/intended.

That aside, I don't even want to think about what it'd be like if we were the comment section of a news site. I'd probably want to leave in disgust after reading 2-3 comments! There are many threads on this site that are directly connected to religion and the discussion thereof; they are all very tasteful, and this site really is a very caring place, overall.

What I think concerning the Bible verses that were bookmarked is that, IF Lyle was the one who did it, he was indeed trying to leave a message to the staff or to LE in some way - but, I can't say what that might have been without being him, regardless of what the scripture itself means to me(interpreting it in my own words, and/or to reflect my own personal "take" on it, would feel out-of-place to me in the context of this thread).

He does seem to have had a penchant for symbolism, what with the name he chose and his almost "premeditated" comment about the pillows in his first room(both subtle enough at the time not to ring the alarm bells, but significant in the aftermath).

What I hope we can do is identify him, give him his name, and possibly take a long-missing person's face out of public circulation...details of his personality and motivations both(imo) belong to the people who knew him best when he was still alive. We'll never be able to say for sure what he was thinking.
 

Spurser

Inquire Within
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Dukic has a very noticeable Adam's apple. Lyle does not. At least at the angle of this picture.....
 
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