WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

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mountainash

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Perhaps he was a war veteran with PTSD and bulimia who was sent over the edge by the 9/11 attacks?
 

SeriouslySearching

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Perhaps he was a war veteran with PTSD and bulimia who was sent over the edge by the 9/11 attacks?
His prints would have come up as a soldier and maybe his DNA (not certain about that one). I think we can safely rule that one out.
 

SeriouslySearching

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To all the people who believe he was murdered due to the manner in which he hanged himself(or due to other reasons not mentioned): what is it that looks suspicious? The scene was so meticulous, he did what he could to ensure his comfort, and he behaved strangely in the days leading up to his death.

I'm not saying that a death that's ruled a suicide can never be murder(see: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...alen-Norway-WhtFem-503UFNOR-Soviet-Spy-Nov-70)...but, the idea that Lyle was murdered just strikes me as so unlikely.
I have mentioned so many things which make me wonder if this was a suicide. I even gave a list earlier.

The scene was meticulous, but even that could be a sign of foul play. Did someone scrub the room and dispose of anything related to Lyle? What was left was not going to give away his ID or other information. A newspaper, a cup, clothing on him and shirt on chair, toothbrush and paste, 3 word note with money for room, one word note, a broken room key, spare change, and that was it.

Evidence shows he showered more than once so where are the other clothes (and are the large clothes he is wearing actually his clothes or did someone dress him?)? We know he went to the store and the money he paid for the room was crisp like new bills so where is his debit card or wallet? What was in the bathroom trash basket that was taken out prior to his death? It is what is NOT in the room that is suspicious and should have been taken into consideration at the time they found the body.
 

SeriouslySearching

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Incorrect. I'm sick of defending myself against people who don't know anything about Washington's Public Records Laws and accuse me of acting improperly or unlawfully when I released the documents. For your information, here's the law: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=42.56. Take a look specifically at RCW 42.56.240, as it governs law enforcement records. You can also take a look here: http://www.seattle.gov/police/contact/PublicRequestUnit.htm for an example of exceptional compliance with WA records laws.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they didn't understand and don't get the laws of WA state. It is different in every state across the country and some allow more than others. I don't think anyone believes you did anything illegal at all! Some may have a problem with the nature of the photos and question the ethical situation, but there is no improper misconduct associated with their release especially where you are concerned. You went to all the trouble of requesting them and jumped through the hoops to get the records. If anything could push this case forward and finally get an ID for Lyle, this could be it.

Thank you again for doing this and I am very grateful you posted everything as it came to you. No reason not to use every single bit of information from them as is and in context.
 

emeraldine

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I have mentioned so many things which make me wonder if this was a suicide. I even gave a list earlier.

The scene was meticulous, but even that could be a sign of foul play. Did someone scrub the room and dispose of anything related to Lyle? What was left was not going to give away his ID or other information. A newspaper, a cup, clothing on him and shirt on chair, toothbrush and paste, 3 word note with money for room, one word note, a broken room key, spare change, and that was it.

Evidence shows he showered more than once so where are the other clothes (and are the large clothes he is wearing actually his clothes or did someone dress him?)? We know he went to the store and the money he paid for the room was crisp like new bills so where is his debit card or wallet? What was in the bathroom trash basket that was taken out prior to his death? It is what is NOT in the room that is suspicious and should have been taken into consideration at the time they found the body.

I didn't just mean you. :) It seems like we're about 50% divided, here - half think it definitely was a suicide, half think it could have been murder.

I'd love to know where his debit card was, too. To me, the crisp new bills basically guarantee - with no bank nearby - that he either had his money changed at the border or(much more likely) visited an ATM.

I'd also love to know what exactly he shaved with, if he had no razor. THAT should have been in the trash can, if he didn't think he needed it, anymore.

I do believe it was a suicide because it "fits" to me, but I'm now wondering if someone didn't come in and clean up before LE got to the room.

I don't want to discourage anyone from posting here who may have been more directly involved than we were(in fact, I want to encourage it), but I wonder if there was something "incriminating" that the staff wanted to dispose of before anyone else could see it - maybe he wrote something else that could have been really damaging, or had something with him that might have been illegal/questionable(and they didn't want to be seen as appearing to allow it).

It would fit the "he was hiding after committing a crime" theory.
 

emeraldine

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I think that if Lyle didn't want to be found he would have gone into the woods, or to be harder to find, a cave. The fact that he checked into a hotel says that he did want to be found, but probably didn't want to be sent home for reasons only known to him.

I agree with the idea that he probably didn't want to be sent home.

I don't think he meant to name himself after Meathead(given the similar surname), but the person who mentioned Archie Bunker in the previous thread might have been on to something. His family could have been similarly rude, intolerant, abrasive, brutal, dismissive, against his religion or sexual orientation, or prone to treating him like an unwelcome guest who wasn't worthy of their "circle."

Nobody wants to be around people like that. If that's what he was dealing with, I feel badly for him, and think that would explain his actions(and desire for anonymity) very well.
 

Spurser

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Incorrect. I'm sick of defending myself against people who don't know anything about Washington's Public Records Laws and accuse me of acting improperly or unlawfully when I released the documents. For your information, here's the law: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=42.56. Take a look specifically at RCW 42.56.240, as it governs law enforcement records. You can also take a look here: http://www.seattle.gov/police/contact/PublicRequestUnit.htm for an example of exceptional compliance with WA records laws.

I appreciate all you have done.
 

SeriouslySearching

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I didn't just mean you. :) It seems like we're about 50% divided, here - half think it definitely was a suicide, half think it could have been murder.

I'd love to know where his debit card was, too. To me, the crisp new bills basically guarantee - with no bank nearby - that he either had his money changed at the border or(much more likely) visited an ATM.

I'd also love to know what exactly he shaved with, if he had no razor. THAT should have been in the trash can, if he didn't think he needed it, anymore.

I do believe it was a suicide because it "fits" to me, but I'm now wondering if someone didn't come in and clean up before LE got to the room.

I don't want to discourage anyone from posting here who may have been more directly involved than we were(in fact, I want to encourage it), but I wonder if there was something "incriminating" that the staff wanted to dispose of before anyone else could see it - maybe he wrote something else that could have been really damaging, or had something with him that might have been illegal/questionable(and they didn't want to be seen as appearing to allow it).

It would fit the "he was hiding after committing a crime" theory.
I guess I am used to being the odd woman out here. lol

The razor is something else that should have been in the room. At first people thought maybe he didn't grow much facial hair, but in the side photo (which brought out the discussion of his hair being brown), there is light stubble. 3 full days of growth?
 

outofthedark

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I guess I am used to being the odd woman out here. lol

The razor is something else that should have been in the room. At first people thought maybe he didn't grow much facial hair, but in the side photo (which brought out the discussion of his hair being brown), there is light stubble. 3 full days of growth?

CCM had replied in #4 that he did have sparse stubble, but had shaved in the days prior.
 

Woodland

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Suspect the motel family owners can put a proper name to Lyle. Jmo.
 

DayLea

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Perhaps he was a war veteran with PTSD and bulimia who was sent over the edge by the 9/11 attacks?

I wondered about the PTSD angle myself. Even if he wasn't a soldier, he could have been subjected to some other sort of trauma. If that's the case, the attacks could have triggered his symptoms. I always thought it was curious that he seemed to be trying to get as far west as possible...

I just had a thought. What if he actually went further and tried to get into Canada, but didn't possess sufficient ID to enter the country, and had to turn around?
 

Estelle1

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Has anybody contacted VD-G (the daughter of the maid) yet on Facebook? She posted a link to one of the Web Sleuth threads about Lyle when she wrote that Facebook post, so she's obviously been following the case somewhat - well up until 2014 at least. I would really like to hear from her, and I don't think it would be insensitive to ask her to join up here. She can only say no after all.

It would give us a chance to fill in some of the missing jigsaw pieces - especially if her mother, MD, is willing to talk to us as well. Even if MD was able to remember simple details (like whether Lyle was wearing the same clothes during each moment of contact), it might trigger a 'light bulb moment' in someone on here, which might eventually lead to his identification. VD-G said her mother still lights a candle for Lyle, which proves there are people who care about him - even if he didn't feel this way when he was alive.

Like someone said earlier, this renewed interest in the case can only be a positive thing - especially if it means we're getting closer to putting a name to Lyle. The fact that Lyle is lying in an unmarked grave still saddens me. Reading through the last couple of pages, I know there are still ethical questions about whether Lyle should be identified at all. However, I disagree - namely because law enforcement were/are willing to do so (and made steps to try and identify Lyle). Also, it's by no means certain that Lyle wanted to remain anonymous (as opposed to someone like Jane Doe in Annandale, Virginia - who did).

Contacting VD-G may only be baby steps but it's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned. Please make it happen someone!
 

Roselvr

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Incorrect. I'm sick of defending myself against people who don't know anything about Washington's Public Records Laws and accuse me of acting improperly or unlawfully when I released the documents. For your information, here's the law: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=42.56. Take a look specifically at RCW 42.56.240, as it governs law enforcement records. You can also take a look here: http://www.seattle.gov/police/contact/PublicRequestUnit.htm for an example of exceptional compliance with WA records laws.

I personally am thankful to see the photos but as an advocate for families of missing; I have to think of the day Lyle gets identified; his family now may see your photos. I wish you would have put the hanging ones in their own private album. There are people that want to see them but can't due to how graphic the hanging pics are. I do not have time right now to read your links but will try to read them this afternoon
 

dotr

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I guess I am used to being the odd woman out here. lol

The razor is something else that should have been in the room. At first people thought maybe he didn't grow much facial hair, but in the side photo (which brought out the discussion of his hair being brown), there is light stubble. 3 full days of growth?

The appearance of facial stubble on decedents could be the result of skin dehydration.Explained here, about a 1/4 down page.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=Hv...e shrinks appearance of beard stubble&f=false
 

emeraldine

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I personally am thankful to see the photos but as an advocate for families of missing; I have to think of the day Lyle gets identified; his family now may see your photos. I wish you would have put the hanging ones in their own private album. There are people that want to see them but can't due to how graphic the hanging pics are. I do not have time right now to read your links but will try to read them this afternoon

Very well said!
 

emeraldine

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I guess I am used to being the odd woman out here. lol

The razor is something else that should have been in the room. At first people thought maybe he didn't grow much facial hair, but in the side photo (which brought out the discussion of his hair being brown), there is light stubble. 3 full days of growth?

All I can think of(given what others are saying, about how he definitely shaved and how stubble becomes "longer" after death like head hair does) is that, if the hotel staff didn't clean the room before LE arrived, then Lyle(either had a backpack or) must have disposed of his razor and other personal effects in the trash/dumpster of a nearby business.

It's a shame that the nearby businesses weren't looked at more thoroughly.

In this "new" picture, he does look like he was capable of growing a fuller beard than the original info/pictures suggested.
 

Kentuckiana

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Going back to the character from which he seems to have borrowed his alias...

I mentioned earlier that I wondered what role 9/11 may have played. Lyle looks as if he may well have had at least partial middle eastern ancestry. People of middle eastern ancestry were expressing great fear of retaliation in the aftermath. In my apartment complex, which was very near a mosque, some of the Muslim women were being escorted on errands by white female residents to ensure their safety. The fear was very real for them. Anyway, I found some more information on the Lyle character, other than the fact that he fantasized about hanging himself, that may be relevant. In the book, at the peak of McCarthyism, the Lyle character is reported as being a "Red sympathizer" when he uses an atlas in his store to prove to an overly jingoist, Patriotic American customer that China is actually a larger country than the U.S. He endures a pretty brutal interrogation by the authorities before being cleared and released. It is a significant event in that character's story because he never fully recovers psychologically from the experience. It was a pretty frightening time for all of us, but how much more so for those Americans who either resembled the perpetrators or who had middle eastern ancestry.
 

dotr

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The book is also about illicit passion..
rbbm.
http://articles.latimes.com/1987-08-16/books/bk-1572_1_joyce-carol-oates

"In the Stevick family, father Lyle is a family man, resigned to his life as a used-furniture store owner. He and wife Hannah have four children: Geraldine, who gets pregnant and must marry; Warren, who fights in Korea; promiscuous Lizzie, who shames her parents by becoming a nightclub singer; and Enid, the youngest, the one with the aspirin.

Enid is quiet, intelligent and always well-behaved. But privately she struggles with a darker self, her alter ego, whom she calls "Angel-Face." This darker self tempts her to steal trinkets from stores, to enjoy men's glances on the street.

When Enid is 14, her Uncle Felix, who is twice her age, seduces her. Felix "the Cat" is a retired middleweight boxing champion. Envied and scorned by Lyle, his half-brother, Felix is dark, brooding and glamorous. He gambles, womanizes and lives dangerously. Enid falls in love with him, and when he ignores her, she writes him a note saying, "Felix I want to die. I love you so much." When he still doesn't respond, she becomes obsessed with the idea of committing suicide. She longs for death to the point where commonplace things evoke a death call. She feels it in the pull of the undertow at Lake Shoal and sees it in the complex pattern of her bedroom wallpaper.

Felix, taken by her willingness to die for him, comes back to her, and they carry on a passionate, destructive love affair. These are four years of erotic, violent scenes in the back seats of cars and cheap hotel rooms on the outskirts of town"
 
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