From the June 1998 interview: 0167 1 arms; they were tied up behind her head. 2 LOU SMIT: Were they tied tight? 3 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, very tight. 4 LOU SMIT: They were very tight? 5 JOHN RAMSEY: I noticed a spot in her coat, 6 below the surface. 7 LOU SMIT: How do you know they were tied 8 tight? 9 JOHN RAMSEY: Because they were -- you know, 10 her skin was swollen around. And they were not 11 easy to get off. I tried to untie them quickly and 12 I just picked her up carried her upstairs. I was 13 screaming. In fact, I couldn't even scream.