Was BR involved? #2

[Linda7NJ]

Is there anywhere that tells what time these neighbors saw these lights moving around?

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Yeah...all said around midnight.


Lights in Kitchen
Schiller Account. "At about midnight, Scott Gibbons, a neighbor, looked out his kitchen window toward the Ramseys' house and saw a light on in the kitchen area." (Schiller 1999:58).
Thomas Account. Thomas states in his book that "A neighbor to the north would say that the butler kitchen lights were on around midnight and considered that unusual since it was the first time he had noticed that light being on in the Ramsey home... (Thomas 2000a:49). Although Thomas does not provide the name, Gibbons lived next door to the Ramseys to the immediate north (map); he would have had a direct view of the butler pantry (diagram).

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682525/What Neighbors Reported

There's more...I'm just too tired to find it.

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[MyBelle]

It certainly would be great if he did.

I think it less about the possibility of being sued (I actually think he might relish that) but more about the evidence he can't reveal b/c it's not in the public domain.

What might be actually even better though would be a release of the GJ testimony.

Burke can reveal anything he wants right now to cops but if he sued, he would have to testify. There is no upside for him to say anything now.

The prosecution has already said it will reveal GJ evidence if there are charges filed. Whatever Burke says now is useless as evidence. It is what he said years ago that is evidence.

 

[MyBelle]

Agree 100%
I bet the remaining Ramsey's would change their minds lightening quick if they were suddenly offered what they're claiming they now want!
The release of ALL of it.


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I agree. JR wants to know what evidence there is against him and the Judge refused to comply. One check mark for justice for JonBenet.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I agree. JR wants to know what evidence there is against him and the Judge refused to comply. One check mark for justice for JonBenet.

John knows it's over. He won. He accomplished his goal.
I take some comfort in knowing what it cost them and the toll it's taken on their lives. I know he despised being under that umbrella. And as far as I'm concerned ...he's still under it, right along with his son.


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[gramcracker]

Yeah...all said around midnight.


Lights in Kitchen
Schiller Account. "At about midnight, Scott Gibbons, a neighbor, looked out his kitchen window toward the Ramseys' house and saw a light on in the kitchen area." (Schiller 1999:58).
Thomas Account. Thomas states in his book that "A neighbor to the north would say that the butler kitchen lights were on around midnight and considered that unusual since it was the first time he had noticed that light being on in the Ramsey home... (Thomas 2000a:49). Although Thomas does not provide the name, Gibbons lived next door to the Ramseys to the immediate north (map); he would have had a direct view of the butler pantry (diagram).

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682525/What Neighbors Reported

There's more...I'm just too tired to find it.

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was there also a light "off" that was always on, except that night? the sunroom, maybe?

 

[MyBelle]

John knows it's over. He won. He accomplished his goal.
I take some comfort in knowing what it cost them and the toll it's taken on their lives. I know he despised being under that umbrella. And as far as I'm concerned ...he's still under it, right along with his son.


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I don't believe it is over. I think sufficient members of law enforcement remain outraged over the unbelievable conduct of some attorneys in the DA's office. Of course JR despised being under the umbrella of suspicion. He's just as much a narcissist as his wife. The guy arrogantly assumed he would get away with a crime, not realizing a Grand Jury had indicted him.

He reminds me of Bernie Madoff, who got away with fraud for a decade. He was only caught because he confessed to his sons. I think this is also a case where the son will be the undoing.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

was there also a light "off" that was always on, except that night? the sunroom, maybe?

I don't remember that. Could very well be! I just can't remember. I thought there were 3? Neighbors that gave statements about lights being on... And the lady that reported the scream also said around midnight.


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[Linda7NJ]

I don't believe it is over. I think sufficient members of law enforcement remain outraged over the unbelievable conduct of some attorneys in the DA's office. Of course JR despised being under the umbrella of suspicion. He's just as much a narcissist as his wife. The guy arrogantly assumed he would get away with a crime, not realizing a Grand Jury had indicted him.



He reminds me of Bernie Madoff, who got away with fraud for a decade. He was only caught because he confessed to his sons. I think this is also a case where the son will be the undoing.



JMO

I hope you're right.


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[bettybaby00]

Burke can reveal anything he wants right now to cops but if he sued, he would have to testify. There is no upside for him to say anything now.

Huh? I'm talking about the possible threat of Kolar being sued by john ramsey.

And that's why I think Kolar might relish that, b/c everything would come out. It's not surprising all those lawsuits filed by the Rs were "settled out of court"

Whatever Burke says now is useless as evidence. It is what he said years ago that is evidence.

?????

I don't think that's accurate. Anyone with more knowledge on the subject?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Huh? I'm talking about the possible threat of Kolar being sued by john ramsey.

And that's why I think Kolar might relish that, b/c everything would come out. It's not surprising all those lawsuits filed by the Rs were "settled out of court"


?????

I don't think that's accurate. Anyone with more knowledge on the subject?

I don't ever recall reading a retraction...do you?




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[gramcracker]

Captain OCD reporting for duty. in Kolar's FF, Melody Stanton reports hearing a child scream sometime between midnight and 2am. the neighbor to the south said a main floor southeast room (the sunroom) usually was lit all night long, but that night between 2:30-3am the light was not on. another neighbor reported that around midnight the upper kitchen lights were on and dimmed

in PMPT Melody Stanton reported hearing a horrifying child's scream around 2am. she assumed that, because she heard the scream at a distance, the scream woke the child's parents. the neighbor to the south reported that a safety light on the southeast corner of the house was not on, and that it had been on every night for years, and thought it was unusual. the neighbor to the south saw lights near the kitchen around midnight

in IRMI the neighbor to the south noticed that the sunroom was dark and thought it was odd because that was the first time in years that the light there was not burning all night. a neighbor to the north reported that the lights were on in the butler's kitchen around midnight and had not ever seen those lights on before (after the Rs went to bed, is the inference). a neighbor to the west said her dogs always barked at anyone in the alley but they made no noise that night

Steve Thomas' IRMI/kindle location 1978

To the question of which interior house lights were on when everyone went to bed, the peculiar reply was "The custom is (and it is believed custom was followed that night), that JonBenet's bathroom light would have been on, with the door open a crack to allow a little light into her bedroom from her bathroom."

Asked if either of them got up during the night, which I considered to be a yes or no question, the answer came back, "Neither has a memory of doing so." I thought this conveniently allowed the possibility that some witness may have seen one of the parents up and about.

Asked who checked to see if the doors and windows were secure, the innocuous reply was "Patsy did not check the doors and windows. John does not believe that he did." He had told several policemen that the house was locked.

that is all ...

 

[bettybaby00]

I don't ever recall reading a retraction...do you?




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You mean from the tabloids they sued....nope


And then the Rs made a deal with the Globe as part of the settlement to do an interview....b/c you know, they needed to get their side of the story out!

Whatever happened to all the money?

 

[bettybaby00]

Captain OCD reporting for duty. in Kolar's FF, Melody Stanton reports hearing a child scream sometime between midnight and 2am. the neighbor to the south said a main floor southeast room (the sunroom) usually was lit all night long, but that night between 2:30-3am the light was not on. another neighbor reported that around midnight the upper kitchen lights were on and dimmed

in PMPT Melody Stanton reported hearing a horrifying child's scream around 2am. she assumed that, because she heard the scream at a distance, the scream woke the child's parents. the neighbor to the south reported that a safety light on the southeast corner of the house was not on, and that it had been on every night for years, and thought it was unusual. the neighbor to the south saw lights near the kitchen around midnight

in IRMI the neighbor to the south noticed that the sunroom was dark and thought it was odd because that was the first time in years that the light there was not burning all night. a neighbor to the north reported that the lights were on in the butler's kitchen around midnight and had not ever seen those lights on before (after the Rs went to bed, is the inference). a neighbor to the west said her dogs always barked at anyone in the alley but they made no noise that night

Steve Thomas' IRMI/kindle location 1978


that is all ...

Thanks Captain

 

[MyBelle]

Huh? I'm talking about the possible threat of Kolar being sued by john ramsey.

And that's why I think Kolar might relish that, b/c everything would come out. It's not surprising all those lawsuits filed by the Rs were "settled out of court"


?????

I don't think that's accurate. Anyone with more knowledge on the subject?

Burke is now an adult. John Ramsey can't sue him. It would have to be Burke, imo.

 

[PPKik]

The lights to the basement were found turned on. I don't see any 9-year-old wanting to go into a basement for any reason during the night without turning on the lights.

Do you remember where this came from?

If the R's reported this, it's meaningless.

How would anyone know since had to be such a time lapse between the murder and the 911 call. I'm curious who said this because I don't remember reading this, but it's been years that I've read anything, except for most of Kolar's book. TIA

 

[UKGuy]

Huh? I'm talking about the possible threat of Kolar being sued by john ramsey.

And that's why I think Kolar might relish that, b/c everything would come out. It's not surprising all those lawsuits filed by the Rs were "settled out of court"


?????

I don't think that's accurate. Anyone with more knowledge on the subject?

bettybaby00,

Whatever Burke says now is useless as evidence. It is what he said years ago that is evidence.

What is said as part of an interview or statement is simply provisional and timebound, it is not actually evidence, but can be used to indicate prevarication.

Evidence is what is led the in the actual Court Room, so whatever BR was to say in an imaginary court case about any subject would be evidence and supercede any prior statement on this subject, unless an attorney wished to contrast it with a prior statement?

.

 

[UKGuy]

Do you remember where this came from?

If the R's reported this, it's meaningless.

How would anyone know since had to be such a time lapse between the murder and the 911 call. I'm curious who said this because I don't remember reading this, but it's been years that I've read anything, except for most of Kolar's book. TIA

PPKik,
That is shocking, does that mean the intruder never had the decency to switch the lights off before leaving the building?

.

 

[UKGuy]

The flashlight was found to have been wiped clean, not merely free of prints. The batteries had also been found to have been removed, wiped clean, and replaced. Something NO intruder would do- why would they? ONLY the prints of someone who owned the flashlight would be on the BATTERIES. IMO, the batteries being wiped of prints were the most glaring indication that the family needed to distance themselves from that (IMO) murder weapon. And there had to be a reason for that. I think we all know what it is.
In one of Patsy's interviews, LE asks about the flashlight. As we know, JR claimed he "had one just like it" but the one in the crime photos was "dirty". We know that it wasn't "dirty"- it had been dusted for prints. I think the Rs wiped the flashlight and batteries so that they could claim it wasn't theirs.
As LE goes over the photos with Patsy, they talk about an open drawer just off the kitchen, and Patsy says that drawer is where the flashlight was always kept. In the photo, it is clear that the flashlight is NOT in the drawer. LE offers up the possibility that, as the drawer obviously does NOT contain the flashlight, and the only flashlight found was the one "just like theirs" but "dirty"- it is apparent that LE believes the flashlight found in the home IS the Rs from that drawer, which Patsy dances around.

DeeDee249,
So why not leave the flashlight next to JonBenet in the wine-cellar, voila perfect staging?

I agree that the flashlight could be the blunt force weapon.

I actually think the story about the drawer in the kitchen might simply be anecdotal to deliberately lead people astray.

Technically the flashlight would not be needed for the basement, since you could just switch the lights on.

It would be needed in JonBenet's bedroom since her main light did not work and PR is on record stating she used a flashlight regularly to check on or take JonBenet to the toilet.

Whatever the role of the flashlight the person who used it did not want linked to the crime-scene so wiped it clean and placed it away from the wine-cellar!


.

 

[Mama2JML]

"The flashlight was" NOT "found to have been wiped clean."
&
"The batteries had" NOT "also been found to have been removed, wiped clean, and replaced."

 

[Tawny]

"The flashlight was" NOT "found to have been wiped clean."
&
"The batteries had" NOT "also been found to have been removed, wiped clean, and replaced."

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/1107jonnn.shtml

Lucky for us, that article still exists.