Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Tricia, Sep 14, 2016.
OTG, I have to say that I am coming around to your way of thinking re: the 'garotte'.
Right now it's just a rumor but I'm hoping!
I would like to read the documents. Do you have a link?
I think you'll find it doesn't make logical sense to most people.
What are the odds that someone from outside the family had that many of Patsy's writing similarities and style?
I think they figured the ransom note was very clever at the time. Either that, or they were desperate for something to work.
You're presenting a false dichotomy, OCB. It's not a question of being smart OR stupid. The FBI said it best: whoever did this was intelligent and manipulative but had no knowledge of real criminal acts.
Pieces of tape and cord are a LOT easier to carry and hide than a body! Less emotional attachment, too.
Like Dr. Pitt said, you'd be amazed what "good" people can do, even to their loved ones. You're making the same mistake the police made: you've seriously underestimated the Ramseys.
You're lucky. I wish I didn't believe that, either. But they had to at least try to make it convincing.
You can have your opinions, OCB, but you can't have your own facts. Those marks look nothing like a taser. They don't line up with one, either.
Oh, there are SO many problems with that assertion!
Me, neither! Especially when it keeps happening!
Wonder was cut from the 2hrs of the CBS special? Could have been them going through and ruling out IDI theories?, Thought they ruled out prior sexual abuse too easily in the version that went to air.
what other brand of boot had compasses on them in the 90s?
i don't keep every receipt.
what's weird is the lies about the boots. deny deny deny to aid IDI theory.
Yeah and those missing items(including panties) could have easily fit in someones pocket. Its unfortunate that every single person wasn't searched as they left the house.
I'm watching the deposition of JR right now on yt. He was just talking of entering that basement room with Fleet and finding that broken window. He said he and Fleet were looking to see if they can find broken glass and that he MIGHT have broken that window himself weeks earlier.
So you don't remember if you broke into your own house smashing a basement window weeks earlier?
Why go searching for glass with Fleet if you know you broke that window yourself? Red flags everywhere.
thank you zencompass and dotr. Wow Burke is an interesting character even in that clip. :notgood:
A couple ponderings about Burke:
When watching the Dr P show and he admits to being down stairs that night, playing with a toy and he mimics holding the toy in his hands and playing and says something like "I just remember being down stairs playing with that toy"..... I couldn't help but wonder if PTSD over that night and blocking memories, especially ones that have been clearly manipulated over the years....could mean that he really has a mental block from that night all these years later....and the one piece of memory he holds on to is the last pleasant experience he had, before the horrible sequence of events began.
Which makes me think it's possible he was up playing and either JBR came down on her own, or at some point he decided to go up and wake her...I could see scenarios playing out either way.....but when he was talking about that memory it did strike a chord with me.....it was almost like how if someone is in an accident they often don't remember the accident but can recall events before it (and not always just because of brain damage or amnesia....but because it's a self defense mechanism ingrained in all of us, to survive sometimes we need to forget.
And long time sleuthers please help me out with this a bit....but was the paint brush believed to be inserted into JBR ever found? Is it possible it was the wooden part on the garrot? Could they have wiped it down after?
The reason I ask, is. Because what if the kids were playing a clearly innapropriate game which involved BR "capturing" JBR...aka tying her up. What if while she's tied up, he is too rough by shoving the wooden part of the garrot into her, causing her to scream and basically tell BR she's down with this game and tries to run away.
As she tries to run Burke, still with the garrot in his hand causes her to trip or fall, and he sits on top of her pinning her down so she can't go anywhere....so she starts yelling and screaming (but no one hears her because parents are 3 floors up), but Burkes afraid they will, so he takes the garrot which is still in his hand and wraps it around her neck in an attempt to quiet her.....but she's obviously struggle and wriggling as anyone would who isn't getting air, so he reaches for the flashlight and smashed it into her head. And at some point she of course soils herself.
My thought is perhaps he was just so focused on quieting her, he wasn't even fully aware at how over the top and life threateningly aggressive he was being with her.
But when she finally stops moving after the head blow and he finally gets off her and realizes she's not moving, he starts poking her, grabbing the tracks and poking her with that.
Perhaps when he knows she either dead or seriously seriously injured because she remains unresponsive, is when he decides to drag her body into the WC, accounting for bruising consistent with dragging. I think it's possible if he was trying to rouse her and she was face down at some point he might have flipped her over.
Regarding the parents coming into the picture....I think Patsy got up a lot earlier the 545, or heard Burke downstairs or going can to bed, or checks on them in there room....something like that and finds Burke but no JBR....so she starts grilling him and freaking out which leads to discovering JBR in the WC with a garrot around her neck, her hands bound, soiled, etc and freaks out......she looks at BR like "what did you do!" .
Perhaps she even tries to see if JBR is alive, scoops her up in your arms, tries to loosen the garrot.....I mean she just found her daughter in this state....I think the first instinct would be to scoop up your baby....which could account for her DNA and sweater fibers being found.
Then Patsy freaking out wakes up JBR......and they cry and cry and cry and grill BR.....and finally calm down enough to come up with a game plan....JR being the most level headed, and given the state her body is in, instructs everyone to leave these ligatures in place and they will stage it to look like a different crime. Patsy decides the ransom note is a good idea with her flat for drama.....
They said BR to his room and Patsy and John "clean up" the house and JBR but obviously miss details. BR was in bed when the ransom note became and idea.....hence his "what did you find" question......
Just a possible scenario.
Well there wasn't a whole lot done with the garrote. I'm thinking they went into that a bit further and CBS had second thoughts about doing that.
how many times have the ramsey's sued or been sued over this case? seems there is a mountain of depositions out there. Do you think JR wants to go through another round? A law firm could have made a living on this case for sure.
JR and PR were never deposed. All lawsuits were either withdrawn or settled before the case was ever brought to court.
Yeah they were. there are video's of depositions. I am not sure which lawsuits but go to youtube. there are some there.
I just watched the deposition regarding the book they wrote.
What book? Who deposed them and why?
While its true no defamation suit brought by the Ramseys has ever gone to trial, they were deposed in a civil suit brought by Boulder journalist Chris Wolf, whom they accused in their book of being a viable suspect. His case was dismissed by a judge who thought it likely that the Ramseys were innocent. How that makes Chris Wolf a viable suspect though is a little hard to fathom.
I believe the entire depositions can be found on youtube. Needless to say, the Ramseys had the better attorney. CBS will do better.