Was Burke Involved ? # 3

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In addition, if JBR had scratched her own throat when she was initially strangled by her own shirt collar, prior to the head wound, would experts have been able to elimate her own DNA from her fingernail clippings? Or is it possible that the mysterious female DNA under her nails, is actually her own?

My head is spinning! Kolar clearly has his own theory/agenda of the crime, and I think he mostly got it right. There was no intruder that night. PR seemed genuinely surprised to learn of the pineapple evidence. I believe something happened between those kids while their parents were otherwise occupied that had horrific consequences.

But the most tragic and unforgivable aspect, IMO, was that the parents KNEW of an ongoing sexual assault. They tried to hide it, but it was made clear that it had begun before JBR's death. The only reason to violate a dying child in such an obscene way, would be to try to hide existing evidence. So they knew. Her mother knew. And how f*cked up is that?

PS - (and I hate discussing this when it pertains to a child) Penetration by an adult male would destroy the hymen. True JR could have only used fingers, but consider the damage a 9-year-old boy could do. I have my accusations against JR, but I just don't see him sexually abusing his 6-year-old daughter. That doesn't register for me.

If you disagree, I honestly welcome your viewpoint.

Regardless, RIP to that beautiful girl.❤️

I agree with you. Someone was regularly hurting her and it wasn't the very busy JR - who had other daughters and no known history of pedophilia - or her mother. The size of the house and the fact that the parents were so far away from their kids every night probably made it that much easier for her abuser to gain access to her.

I'm slowly re-reading Kolar but I think he believes the garroting was done by the same person who caused the head wound. As we know who he thinks landed the head blow, I'd love to know why he thinks this is the case. I have trouble seeing a youngster creating that weapon, and the time difference, if the medical experts are accurate, leads me to believe it was part of the staging. I wish he'd come out and outline his thoughts. Burke could sue, but he's a limited public figure who has likely accepted compensation for his TV appearance so the bar for him to prove libel is pretty high. And the ultimate defense to libel is that the statements are the truth. After seeing Burke on Dr. Phil, I'd pay to see him deposed. I think he does remember exactly happened that night even if his parents decided to never speak of it again to him.
 
I just want to get a few things off my chest. 1st of all, I want to say thanks to BR for speaking up. A lot of people didn't think he ever would...and regardless if this interview proves to be helpful or not, I do think BR is sincere about wanting to honor his sister's memory. I still don't think he was involved and since I don't buy into any intruder theory, that leaves 2,imo. I also believe BR when he says he didn't get out of bed and that was not his voice on the 911. IMO, it sounds like JR and PR. The enhancement was so many yrs ago and I do think a new enhancement with updated technology would help and if they say yes, that is BR on that tape, then ok, I'd believe it. Here are a few things that I find a little unsettling. BR was taken aback by how long JB's hair was in her 'last' picture. Wouldn't her last, happy smiling Christmas picture be her family's prized possession and prominently displayed? We've all seen that picture, so why isn't BR familiar with it? How isolated has he been through the years and how off limits was the topic of JB? And he said he never read the full ransom note? I wonder why...maybe because he knew his parents didn't want him to. Whatever though, when I look at his face, I see someone struggling for answers and who is sincere about wanting to honor his sister. All moo.
 
I remember JR doing his hedging thing when it came to BR's gift. If BR's gift was somehow involved, that would at least explain why JR seemed to have trouble remembering and or distanced himself from whatever it was. moo
 
I hoped that Dr Phil would get tough too but after reading today that Lin Wood is also Dr Phil's lawyer I'm sure that that is not going to happen.
 
I, personally, cannot imagine that Burke knew how, or could even think to penetrate a 6 year old. Especially with an object. I believe that part of the staging was absolutely an adult. I hate to think about this, and it is a bit graphic, but I doubt it's easy to penetrate a 6 year old. For a few reasons. :( I just don't think Burke did that part at all.

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Children sexually assault other children, we can't discount this as a possibility because it is unpalatable.
 
Children sexually assault other children, we can't discount this as a possibility because it is unpalatable.
I am aware of that. It's just that for me, BR is lower down the list for this than others.

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Yes I was about to say something similar. I'd like to see a diagnosis from a doctor Burke has seen and been a patient of (as opposed to an armchair "expert" hired by the media).

That's Burke's choice. Medical records are kept between doctor and patient, investigator's with search warrants, greased medical staffs, lazy doctors who throw them out in trash bins, and any good hacker who can access a hospital's medical records. Other than all of those people mentioned, no one else will be able to see the records. Oh, and I guess they can be leaked by congress too. :)
 
In regards to the RN, I find it curious how there is not one marked out word, no mistakes made just sloppy handwriting. Maybe PR was telling BR exactly what to write, dictating to him.

They had many samples of Burke's handwriting as he was in school and had projects laying about the house.

What you need to look at is how unwilling Patsy was to cough up samples of her own handwriting. How she would provide cursive samples when she knew that they wanted printing. How she denied writing notes on the back of family photos. How she changed the style of her "a"s after the crime. How she began typing notes to the kids school after the crime.

Not hard to figure out.


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Yes, he did.

(from police deposition)
John Ramsey: "Burke was downstairs trying to put together a model that he'd got for Christmas and I couldn't get him to go to bed. We were going to get up in the morning and leave to go to Michigan so I help him put it together so I could get him to go on to bed. So he went to bed and Patsy and I went to bed."

In one of JR's past television interviews, I distinctly remember JR describing the toy as a Lego robot that transforms into a parking garage. At the time, sleuthers attempted to find the exact toy and probably came close. Even now, just a quick google brings up youtubes of a Lego robot parking garage.

Anyhow, that is the most specific toy JR ever mentioned IIRC. He also said that he helped BR assemble the toy in the "TV Room downstairs" - which sleuthers tried to determine exactly which room that would have been.
 
In one of JR's past television interviews, I distinctly remember JR describing the toy as a Lego robot that transforms into a parking garage. At the time, sleuthers attempted to find the exact toy and probably came close. Even now, just a quick google brings up youtubes of a Lego robot parking garage.

Anyhow, that is the most specific toy JR ever mentioned IIRC. He also said that he helped BR assemble the toy in the "TV Room downstairs" - which sleuthers tried to determine exactly which room that would have been.

Well...maybe it was a lego robot parking garage that transformed into a train. ;)

Kidding aside, thanks so much for this info, CorallaroC. Super helpful. :)
 
Phew finally able to watch the interviews. ID programme is on monday night over here. a strange pair. There has to be an element of truth slipped in there somewhere.

O/t my beautiful blonde haired blue eyed six year old had an accident a few months ago. She was offered a present for being such a star... she chose an americal girl doll. It took a few weeks for it to click where id heard of them before, gives me the creeps now.
 
They had many samples of Burke's handwriting as he was in school and had projects laying about the house.

What you need to look at is how unwilling Patsy was to cough up samples of her own handwriting. How she would provide cursive samples when she knew that they wanted printing. How she denied writing notes on the back of family photos. How she changed the style of her "a"s after the crime. How she began typing notes to the kids school after the crime.

Not hard to figure out.


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And to me the handwriting just doesn't look like a 9 year old boy's handwriting. But I'm no expert.


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On the 2nd Episode of DP, they discuss the baseball bat. BR tells DP that he normally left his bat on the patio although the police photo depicts the bat being on the side of the house.


Dr Phil: So, an intruder could have picked that up on the way in.

Burke: Yeah.

Begins at the 33:04 mark, after the pineapple question.
[video=youtube;FxSBUjf4QLo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxSBUjf4QLo[/video]
 
As I'm reviewing all of this and refreshing my memory on the whole thing; the time difference shown on the autopsy and the garrote just tell me so much.

I've read a lot on here and elsewhere that people take this time lapse to mean she was hit in the head and then the rest was staged.

I'm thinking no. I'm thinking this points so much to a sadist, relishing in the act. That is not uncommon at all. They will try to keep the victim just barely alive for a long time. A case many of you might remember, I know I'll never forget is that of Imette Carmella St. Guillen. She was murdered by a sadist.

Some thoughts on an intruder:

1). Usually sexual sadist have a very clear role- playing model in their head. They have very, very specific gestures and actions that they want played out right down to sounds and movements in order to satisfy the giant lizard in their brain. To that end, a sadist that used a garrote would not rely on looking around the home for the needed essentials. Specifically the needed supplies for something as exact as that garrote. WHY would an intruder bring in the cord and not have the stick with? What intruder would think to themselves, "Well, while I'm in the home with all the occupants sleeping there and I'm taking my own sweet time to do this, I'll look around and find a stick to do this with." Doesn't add up. This is exactly why the police often find, 'kits' put together that are in the sadist/murderer's car or at home. These types have it all planned out ahead of time.

Even if the sadist got off on tying the knots on the garrote, he or she would likely have brought the stick with.

2). The autopsy showed evidence of previous sexual assault.

I think we might have to consider the idea that this child was attractive to a large group of people and she may have been being sexually assaulted in the home independent of whoever committed this act. Meaning the two events are not linked but the evidence makes us think they are.

3). Fiber from the cord was found on her bed. That's disturbing. How did that get there? Was it after the Ramsey's found her and they went up to her room and transferred it there?


4). BR is an oddly behaving individual. I watched the videos of him from back then and he smiled inappropriately even then. However; when I stand back and look at all of this I don't see a child of this age being able to think about and use a garrote in the fashion it was used. As far as staging, a child that age would have made a lot of mistakes. How would he have gotten rid of the rest of the cord? Where did the other end of the paint brush go?

Some people have stated that he is a brilliant young man and he could have been smart enough back then to have pulled this off. I disagree, smarts and maturity often have to go together in order to commit a crime of this nature and he may be smart but he STILL lacks the maturity. I can see him in my mind just being a giggling idiot in the corner when placed under the kind of pressure the police could have placed him under at the time.

As far as the smarts go, I've known a whole lot of well to do families that had an odd ball child that they explained away as, "Smart", when in fact the kid was just an odd ball who had enough solitary time on his hands to focus on one subject and come across as smart. A blue bird egg is still a blue bird egg.

Under some pressure from the right investigator I think BR would crack like dry plaster if he truly had anything to hide. Maybe they should try it and see what happens. As I'm watching the interviews with DP, I'm wondering if that wasn't part of the intent with all this.
 
Also, (I know I've written about this before) I'm not sure people fully understand an Asperger's person. A friend of mine was married to one and he would just not have the appropriate emotions a lot of time. Unless you knew this guy very well, you would not guess he was having any problems. It took years of interactions and his own family thinking he was odd before someone said, "You know, I don't think he's just odd and distant, I think he has Asperger's." Sure enough when we all started reading about this he fits the description perfectly. From what I've read, they just cannot connect to other people's emotions. They seem to be lacking that sense of being able to be in a situation and respond appropriately.

When I watch the video of the funeral and I see BR SMILING as he comes out of the church, and smiling as he is walking around, that is what I think of. When I watch him interact with DP and he repeats words that DP uses to describe emotions that's is exactly what I think he's doing. He's looking OUTSIDE to the people around him for clues about how he should be reacting.
 
When I watch the video of the funeral and I see BR SMILING as he comes out of the church, and smiling as he is walking around, that is what I think of. When I watch him interact with DP and he repeats words that DP uses to describe emotions that's is exactly what I think he's doing. He's looking OUTSIDE to the people around him for clues about how he should be reacting.

In his book James Kolar describes individual photos taken of the family when they went down to give fingerprints and samples shortly after the murder. JR and PR looked like hell. Burke, on the other hand, had his arm casually draped over a chair - and a great big smile on his face.

None of us can even begin to diagnose Burke through what little we've seen of him or heard about him. All we can say is that his behavior and demeanor are atypical given the circumstances. Most atypical. And it would seem not much has changed.
 
To me the ONLY thing about the whole crime that makes any sense is parents covering up so their oldest child is not ruined for life .....if JR had sexually abused her , I would think he would have done it to the older children ....and there was NO indication of that at all ...am I correct on that?
 
As I'm reviewing all of this and refreshing my memory on the whole thing; the time difference shown on the autopsy and the garrote just tell me so much.

I've read a lot on here and elsewhere that people take this time lapse to mean she was hit in the head and then the rest was staged.

I'm thinking no. I'm thinking this points so much to a sadist, relishing in the act. That is not uncommon at all. They will try to keep the victim just barely alive for a long time. A case many of you might remember, I know I'll never forget is that of Imette Carmella St. Guillen. She was murdered by a sadist.

Some thoughts on an intruder:

1). Usually sexual sadist have a very clear role- playing model in their head. They have very, very specific gestures and actions that they want played out right down to sounds and movements in order to satisfy the giant lizard in their brain. To that end, a sadist that used a garrote would not rely on looking around the home for the needed essentials. Specifically the needed supplies for something as exact as that garrote. WHY would an intruder bring in the cord and not have the stick with? What intruder would think to themselves, "Well, while I'm in the home with all the occupants sleeping there and I'm taking my own sweet time to do this, I'll look around and find a stick to do this with." Doesn't add up. This is exactly why the police often find, 'kits' put together that are in the sadist/murderer's car or at home. These types have it all planned out ahead of time.

Even if the sadist got off on tying the knots on the garrote, he or she would likely have brought the stick with.

2). The autopsy showed evidence of previous sexual assault.

I think we might have to consider the idea that this child was attractive to a large group of people and she may have been being sexually assaulted in the home independent of whoever committed this act. Meaning the two events are not linked but the evidence makes us think they are.

3). Fiber from the cord was found on her bed. That's disturbing. How did that get there? Was it after the Ramsey's found her and they went up to her room and transferred it there?


4). BR is an oddly behaving individual. I watched the videos of him from back then and he smiled inappropriately even then. However; when I stand back and look at all of this I don't see a child of this age being able to think about and use a garrote in the fashion it was used. As far as staging, a child that age would have made a lot of mistakes. How would he have gotten rid of the rest of the cord? Where did the other end of the paint brush go?

Some people have stated that he is a brilliant young man and he could have been smart enough back then to have pulled this off. I disagree, smarts and maturity often have to go together in order to commit a crime of this nature and he may be smart but he STILL lacks the maturity. I can see him in my mind just being a giggling idiot in the corner when placed under the kind of pressure the police could have placed him under at the time.

As far as the smarts go, I've known a whole lot of well to do families that had an odd ball child that they explained away as, "Smart", when in fact the kid was just an odd ball who had enough solitary time on his hands to focus on one subject and come across as smart. A blue bird egg is still a blue bird egg.

Under some pressure from the right investigator I think BR would crack like dry plaster if he truly had anything to hide. Maybe they should try it and see what happens. As I'm watching the interviews with DP, I'm wondering if that wasn't part of the intent with all this.


There is the 1972 unsolved murder in my home town of Fayetteville Ar. of Pauline Storment very sad a young college student the suspect was Professors 17 year old son, that family protected him relentlessly and he was never interviewed so it does not seem uncommon at all to me.
 
*snip*.....if JR had sexually abused her , I would think he would have done it to the older children ....and there was NO indication of that at all ...am I correct on that?

No, there wasn't any indication John had sexually abused his older children; however, this does not rule out him having possibly done so to JonBenet. Lucinda wasn't a former beauty queen who had her femininity (i.e. that which made her a woman) destroyed by stage 4 ovarian cancer and may have unknowingly pushed JonBenet into being a surrogate for her.
 
To me the ONLY thing about the whole crime that makes any sense is parents covering up so their oldest child is not ruined for life .....if JR had sexually abused her , I would think he would have done it to the older children ....and there was NO indication of that at all ...am I correct on that?

The older children said there was no abuse. You are correct.
 
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