Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[HMSHood]

I remember hearing Burke Ramsey being a suspect. I remember hearing he had tantrum issues and would get upset that JonBenet was getting more attention.

 

[October]

I am also certain that the murder was committed by someone in that house. The part I struggle to understand is the parents supposedly finishing her off because they know the injury is fatal. I just can't imagine a scenario where they assume this is the golden child's fate. If my child had been hit in the head and was unconscious, I can't imagine assuming that it was an injury that could kill them. There is just no way that my mind would go there. I think a doctor could tell me that my child had a fatal injury and as long as they were breathing, some part of me would still believe they could be okay.

That's why I feel like JR and PR didn't find her until she was dead.

JMO
I am certain the death of JBR was caused by someone in that house. I am convinced PR wrote the letter.

I keep flip-flopping between Patsy or BR as far as what actually happened though. It comes down to one of two things to me. Its either

1-PR got really mad at JBR for something she did like bed wetting again or peeing her clothes or opening christmas gifts that were supposed to be for the trip or something else. It doesn't really matter whatever the reason for this option. The bottom line is she loses her temper with her discipline of JBR and it goes too far and JBR hits her head on something which cracks her skull. PR panics as JBR is gurgling but still breathing. PR realizes the injury is near fatal and she doesnt want to get in trouble from JR for her over zealous discipline so she uses a string of some sort to put her out of her misery. She thinks quickly and realizes she needs to remove her body and come up with a plan. She first just hides the body in the basement to get her as far away from JR as possible. Then she remembers her movies and decides a ransom note is perfect. For two reasons. 1-it buys her a lot of time from JR because she goes upstairs and tells him she cant sleep and is going to watch a movie. 2-she can see how they did the note.

So the movies get played and the one with Danny Devito is her favorite. She remembers a couple lines from other movies and throws those in too. One of two things happens here which really doesnt affect this option much.
A-The note writing is taking much longer than she thought and hours start to drag on which is when JR thinks it really strange she is gone so long. He goes down to check on her and catches her writing the note. She breaks down and tells him what happened. He reluctantly agrees with her plan. She convinces him that he would be destroyed in the media just like she would.
B-He stays asleep and has no idea what happened until he reads the ransom note and it is obvious to him that she wrote it so she has to tell him what happened. This happens right before the call to 911 and no time to move the body. Or it finally hits him what she did after the police are already there. Really doesnt matter. The premise of this option 1 is what is important.


2-BR and JBR agree to sneak down to open the christmas gifts that are for the trip or to play with their other gifts. A typical sibling argument breaks out. It doesnt matter why. Could be that BR gets a bowl of pineapple from fridge and JBR uses her fingers to grab some chunks. Or any other infinite reason why brothers and sisters fight. This one is bad though and BR gets really really mad.

BR chases her and she runs down to the basement and hides from him in the dark. He gets even madder because he cant find her so grabs the maglite to find her. He finds her and bashes her in the head. He didnt realize it would hurt her as bad as it did (Lionel Tate probably didnt realize he would kill his 6 year old sister with a wrestling move either).

JBR is gurgling and making loud noises and he panics and gets his play-garrott that he had tormented JBR with before while horsing around. He applies the noose end with the knot and pulls it tight until she stops making gurgling breathing noises.

The commotion wakens PR who comes down to find him standing there like a deer in headlights. She screams "What did you do?!!" Which brings down JR and they take him to his room and shut the door and tells him he is to stay in his room and dont come out until its time for them to talk with him further. (for the dont say anything at all to police when they come. You were here in your room the whole time)

PR+JR meet downstairs to begin the planning of what to do next. The rest is same except no time to get rid of the body. They agree to get rid of it later. What happens is LE is not going anywhere and they cant stand the pressure anymore so JR pretends to find it.


So those are the general two options I keep flip flopping on.
Can someone help me decide which one of those two options is much more likely and why? In a general way .

1-Either PR did it and BR had no involvement or
2-BR was involved in her death and PR or PR/JR helped coverup

 

[minazoe]

No I think the killing was completed by her brother who was toying with her like a dead mouse...I wonder if he then coldly went and got patsy to show her that something bad happened..

The part of this I can't put together is John Ramsey going to the basement with FW ..maybe he had no choice and somehow his plan changed due to uncontrollable circumstances...

I think the screams heard were pasty.

Have you ever met a creepy little kid? Remember the bad seed?

Interesting...wonder why they had a book on sexual aggression in children? I don't have a book on that subject do you?

 

[PositiveLight]

Someone also posted that there was a crime scene investigation book beside JRs bed. No links and not sure how valid it is but if it's true it makes you wonder.
Moo

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[AmyPond]

<snip>

JBR is gurgling and making loud noises and he panics and gets his play-garrott that he had tormented JBR with before while horsing around. He applies the noose end with the knot and pulls it tight until she stops making gurgling breathing noises.

<snip>

I haven't heard of a play garotte before. Do you have a link for this?

 

[Errrr]

Now that I've seen the autopsy photos I no longer believe this was an accident. Those strange burn marks on her neck look too professional. No kid did this either.

 

[otg]

I was hoping you'd show up otg. Thank you.

Been busy with other stuff :juggle:. I'm trying to catch up, but hwow: my goodness at all the new posts and posters :freakedout:.

 

[Lamima]

Just read Kolar's book on my tablet. Kinda skimmed through some of it but never saw where he stated his theory in full...did I miss it? Or are we to surmise what he thought happened by the bits and pieces (I kinda do but was hoping to read his theory in full).

 

[pocketaccent]

There was no interaction between PR and JR on the morning of Dec 26th. They were not in the same room comforting each other. The victim advocates thought they were either divorced or estranged. - per The Bonita Papers
I think PR and JR were beyond pissed at each other and couldn't stand being in the same room, knowing what each did to JBR.

I think BR went downstairs to play with his new toys, JBR followed him, shared a bowl of pineapples, JBR went back to her room, BR may have gone back to his room or went to the basement...until PR and JR, carrying a flashlight, came down with deceased JBR and found him there. JR took BR to his bedroom using the flashlight.

What happened to JBR is between JR, PR, and JBR in JBR's room that night. (JR initially told police that he read a book to JBR that night then changed his story later).
I think he had done something that needed to be kept in secret, had done something very shameful and so horrible that whatever PR did in a fit of uncontrollable rage was 'understandable' to him and had to go along with the crime of staging a fake kidnapping.

 

[TeaTime]

Someone also posted that there was a crime scene investigation book beside JRs bed. No links and not sure how valid it is but if it's true it makes you wonder.
Moo

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Yes, "Mind Hunter" by John Douglas however, some have stated it was not on the night stand but rather on top of a pile of books stacked near his side of the bed.

 

[TeaTime]

Now that I've seen the autopsy photos I no longer believe this was an accident. Those strange burn marks on her neck look too professional. No kid did this either.

They are listed as "abrasions" not burns on the autopsy report.

 

[TeaTime]

There was no interaction between PR and JR on the morning of Dec 26th. They were not in the same room comforting each other. The victim advocates thought they were either divorced or estranged. - per The Bonita Papers
I think PR and JR were beyond pissed at each other and couldn't stand being in the same room, knowing what each did to JBR.

I think BR went downstairs to play with his new toys, JBR followed him, shared a bowl of pineapples, JBR went back to her room, BR may have gone back to his room or went to the basement...until PR and JR, carrying a flashlight, came down with deceased JBR and found him there. JR took BR to his bedroom using the flashlight.

What happened to JBR is between JR, PR, and JBR in JBR's room that night. (JR initially told police that he read a book to JBR that night then changed his story later).
I think he had done something that needed to be kept in secret, had done something very shameful and so horrible that whatever PR did in a fit of uncontrollable rage was 'understandable' to him and had to go along with the crime of staging a fake kidnapping.

So you think BR is just a witness. Interesting.

 

[colette]

Burke was not involved. I can not believe this is even a serious question here on Websleuths. I hope someday the real killer is found so this family can finally get some peace.

 

[AmyPond]

Burke was not involved. I can not believe this is even a serious question here on Websleuths. I hope someday the real killer is found so this family can finally get some peace.

Why can't you believe it would be a serious question?

 

[thefragile7393]

Burke was not involved. I can not believe this is even a serious question here on Websleuths. I hope someday the real killer is found so this family can finally get some peace.

As of right now there is no evidence to say he was or wasn't....we are here to discuss thoughts and theories of known facts. Stating that he wasn't involved isn't a known fact....it is an opinion.

 

[Meryl12]

JMO
I am certain the death of JBR was caused by someone in that house. I am convinced PR wrote the letter.

I keep flip-flopping between Patsy or BR as far as what actually happened though.
(SNIP)
2-BR and JBR agree to sneak down to open the christmas gifts that are for the trip or to play with their other gifts. A typical sibling argument breaks out. It doesnt matter why. Could be that BR gets a bowl of pineapple from fridge and JBR uses her fingers to grab some chunks. Or any other infinite reason why brothers and sisters fight. This one is bad though and BR gets really really mad.

BR chases her and she runs down to the basement and hides from him in the dark. He gets even madder because he cant find her so grabs the maglite to find her. He finds her and bashes her in the head. He didnt realize it would hurt her as bad as it did (Lionel Tate probably didnt realize he would kill his 6 year old sister with a wrestling move either).

JBR is gurgling and making loud noises and he panics and gets his play-garrott that he had tormented JBR with before while horsing around. He applies the noose end with the knot and pulls it tight until she stops making gurgling breathing noises.

The commotion wakens PR who comes down to find him standing there like a deer in headlights. She screams "What did you do?!!" Which brings down JR and they take him to his room and shut the door and tells him he is to stay in his room and dont come out until its time for them to talk with him further. (for the dont say anything at all to police when they come. You were here in your room the whole time)

PR+JR meet downstairs to begin the planning of what to do next. The rest is same except no time to get rid of the body. They agree to get rid of it later. What happens is LE is not going anywhere and they cant stand the pressure anymore so JR pretends to find it.

1-Either PR did it and BR had no involvement or
2-BR was involved in her death and PR or PR/JR helped coverup

This is a brilliant post. I agree with this 2nd theory with a few of my own ideas. It has been said that JBR was afraid of the basement, so probably she grabbed some pineapple and possibly BR objected (childrens squabbles) - then she grabbed one of his toys (it doesn't matter what she grabbed) and ran away from BR knowing she had made him mad, but unaware that she had enraged him. Then he chased her enraged, still holding the magnalite flashlight. BR easily caught up with the much younger JBR, demanded his toy, pushing her over. Then he hit her with the magnalight. The injury looks very much like JBR was laying down on her side with her head on something solid like a floor for her skull to crack open like that. Taking one of BR christmas presents and running away with it would enflame his rage. The skull fracture would make JBR gurgle and convulse really horribly and BR had stop these so he used the garrott to silence her. Then he had tell PR that something has happened to JBR, she fell over in the dark or some lame excuse.
The sexual violation with the paint brush handle has to be BR because I cannot imagine PR doing that to JBR.
But I have no doubt that the staging and coverup were done because of their idea of their public image. Previous sexual abuse would be exposed, now it has been exposed. PR must have known about the sexual abuse.
BR problems would have been exposed, and now they have been exposed. He didn't get better.
All of the other details are PR, - tying JBR's hands together, and taping her mouth etc have to be PR.
At what stage JR gets involved I cannot estimate. I am certain JBR was moved to where she was found and all the rest was staging with BR in his room and JR and PR completing the completely staged scene.
I think PR started the staging to protect their Perfect Family public image before JR became aware, but when he was made aware he continued the staging. He didn't stop what was happening and say "STOP. We cannot do this", and follow correct procedure.
He continued with it.

 

[Red Viewfinder]

John said on Dr Phil that they had gotten bad advice after the murder. He seemed to be alluding to speaking to the media BUT...is it possible he also meant about how to handle the murder? Could they have confided in someone else that night, such as FW, and took advice to cover up JBR's death?

 

[hot cawfeee]

BOESP---your post at # 302-----and call all your friends to come over and start putting out "the story" that they can repeat as tho they are witnesses.

 

[hot cawfeee]

having been catching up with my morning cawfee this is a great group !!!
fast snarkment-- and then question----as regard the Ransom Note--- a foreign faction with English as a first language?
And was it ever investigated that there had been problems within the corporate world with kidnapping, blackmail etc ? Any record of a specific threat made to JR or to his company? The executives of companies are the ones targeted, not family members.... back in the 1970's that was huge--ot-- Mama Cawfee's cousin and his family lived in South America for a few years while he worked for a big corp. When they returned to US his replacement was kidnapped and found executed by the kidnappers.

 

[Errrr]

They are listed as "abrasions" not burns on the autopsy report.

Did you see the images? A tiny circular abrasion does not compute.