Was Burke Involved? # 4

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Tricia, Sep 14, 2016.

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  1. johnjay

    johnjay New Member

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    Wasn't the family dog left out of that picture too?
     


  2. DakotaMayi

    DakotaMayi Former Member

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    Not sure. However i would say it was more significant leaving out your sister than it is leaving out the dog
     
  3. mrseeker

    mrseeker Former Member

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    Lot's of armchair psychology going on. Maybe he left her out for the reason he said. She was gone. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
     
  4. DakotaMayi

    DakotaMayi Former Member

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    I was wrong then. Sorry.
     
  5. johnjay

    johnjay New Member

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    Thinking about this some more, it seems that the hair entwined in the knot would keep the stick end from being pulled far enough away to tighten the noose part.
     
  6. BBB167893

    BBB167893 Former Member

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    I'm not sure that the handle was on it before she was strangled, johnjay. And yes, I'm convinced that it was simply pulled, not twisted.

    You just nailed it, johnjay: nobody wants to believe that the Girl Scout den mother down the street could do something like this. It's comforting in a way to think that good is good and bad is bad and only the most derelict among us do these things. I'm sure that's what the Rs were going for. And just as a personal statement, I'd say it's a stretch to call either John or Patsy "normal!"
     
  7. Djoop

    Djoop Member

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    I allready stated that I can't reproduce the deductive reasoning that lead me to believe this was being suggested. It may have been a wrong assumption on my part, based of the post you made in which you pointed on the possibility that it was an act of sexual aggression.

    I think we understand eachother when it's about the nature of agressive acts by children this age, whether they are sexual or not, they're not sexually driven, driven by lust. Therefor, like you I believe we can discard the idea of erotic asphyxiation (as a motive for Burke to use the garrote). I also believe that the use of the garrote pretty much excludes the whole accident theory and does open the door towards sadism; that he must have intended to inflict extreme agony or even death on her. Not merely ASPD, but one with psychopathic features, a disorder that overlaps with, but is distinguishable from ASPD. Like the Enforcing Sadist you describe. Which is helpful if you're trying to narrow it down. Once you found the behavioral pattern, you can make sense of certain behavior or lack of it. His lack of empathy for example has been pointed out by many. However, this theory also requires a kind of personality disorder that's not likely to stay unnoticed long. It raises other questions worth addressing.

    I think the BDI theory is most viable when you consider it was an act of rage. He struck her on the head, and the parents proceeded to cover this 'accident' up, like they covered the one with the golf club - they didn't want to believe their son intended to kill her. It doesn't require him to be a sadist, you have a wide array of possible personality traits that could explain why he hit her and felt no remorse for it afterwards. It would explain why the parents staged the scene (believing the blow to her head had allready killed her) and the 911 call.
     
  8. johnjay

    johnjay New Member

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    Do you think Burke did that and John staged what we ended up with?

     
  9. BBB167893

    BBB167893 Former Member

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    Agreed. Those cases are as different from this one as night and day. I don't know if there's ever been a case besides this one like you describe, mrseeker, but it seems like ever since JonBenet's death, there have been numerous cases that followed the Ramsey blueprint: missing child, caretakers blame "intruder" and have NO idea what happened. Two days ago, one of these cases was solved, that of Rica Parsons in North Carolina. Her stepparents claimed she's gone to visit relatives and disappeared after that. Her stepfather showed cops where she was buried. Here's the thing: the stepparents were interviewed on Dr Phil too. AND when the property was searched, they found lots of material relating to JonBenet and Susan Smith.
     
  10. BBB167893

    BBB167893 Former Member

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    No, I don't don't. Not yet, anyway. I think the parents did all the staging.
     
  11. mrseeker

    mrseeker Former Member

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    Yep but that body had been removed from the house. If PR had more time, JBR would have been removed IMO
     
  12. BBB167893

    BBB167893 Former Member

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    I can't believe that, mrseeker. "Proper burial" was too important to her. Too important to let her pageant princess become a meal for scavengers.
     
  13. ThinkHard

    ThinkHard Former Member

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    What are you talking about? When did I describe an "enforcing sadist" ? I never said any such thing.

    It feels a bit in this post and your last ones, that you are either intentionally twisting my words, or that you are just innocently misunderstanding them. But it feels like you are putting words and thoughts in my mouth I have never had nor written.

    Also ASPD aka antisocial personality disorder aka sociopath IS a personality disorder, which includes a lack of empathy, amongst many other things. But I don't think this neccasarily fits Burke. Nor do I think he was a sadist, I NEVER said that, EVER. Nor have I thought that, I'm not sure where you got that idea.
     
  14. mrseeker

    mrseeker Former Member

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    I don't believe that at all. The note was written to get JR to leave for the bank that morning so she could move the body to some roadside. She staged it as a sexual attack so she must have wanted it found at some point, so I doubt she would bury her. If JR and BR were both involved the body would not be in that house at the time of the 911 call. That is nonsensical. Or they are both really stupid which I do not think they are. I think PR was a little nuts and very high.
     
  15. johnjay

    johnjay New Member

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    Just so I'm clear on this. You think the parents were solely responsible for all strangulation?

    Do you think JonBenet dead or alive when this occurred?
     
  16. johnjay

    johnjay New Member

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    Is this the kind of know that was used around the neck? (without the half hitch at the end)

    [video=youtube;dGXd2EnrJ30]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGXd2EnrJ30[/video]
     
  17. TexMex

    TexMex Punishment is justice for the unjust.

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    John never left for the bank. He called the banker then sent Mr. Fernie to collect the money. IMO that could not have been the plan because both parents would be expected to stay in the home for the kidnappers phone call between 8-10

    If her plan was to leave the house with the body she would also never have called two couples and the preacher to come over. Was she just going to leave the police and all those friends to go for a drive?
     
  18. Djoop

    Djoop Member

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    You clearly misunderstood me. I said you described an enforcing sadist, maybe I should have been more accurate by stating you described characteristics of an enforcing sadist. You didn't say you think he's a sadist. I did, and I tried to explain the difference with a 'mere' ASPD. Why Burke would need to be a sadist/psychopath in certain BDI theories. Now I'm using the most common terms, but I have to translate them and I'm not custom to the lingo americans use when it comes to psychiatry in general, and surely there are differences in subtypes - the american school may allow subtypes we do not acknowledge and vice versa or use different methods to differentiate between them.
     
  19. watson110

    watson110 New Member

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    There is an interesting post in a fb group. Basically a picture like this was posted. It's a string from the neck of an American Doll.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. ThinkHard

    ThinkHard Former Member

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    I've seen this proposed before, but two things.....those strings are cotton, not shiny ....th one on the Ramsey ligature appears to be shiny like nylon line. Two having one of those dolls growing up, I don't think these strings are long enough to be the one used in the Ramsey ligature.
     
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