Was Burke Involved? # 4

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kanzz

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He didn't even say "her" hair. He said "the' hair.
This type of distancing language is in all of the R's statements, starting with "We have a kidnapping." She didn't say, "Our daughter has been kidnapped!" The focus wasn't on JB, it was on them. "She's blonde." "I'm the mother." Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. But it seems to me it was sprinkled everywhere when they spoke.
 

Annapurna

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This type of distancing language is in all of the R's statements, starting with "We have a kidnapping." She didn't say, "Our daughter has been kidnapped!" The focus wasn't on JB, it was on them. "She's blonde." "I'm the mother." Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. But it seems to me it was sprinkled everywhere when they spoke.

Oh totally, you're not the only one to have noticed. Some of it can be claimed to be cultural or language differences...but not all of it.


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PositiveLight

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Oh totally, you're not the only one to have noticed. Some of it can be claimed to be cultural or language differences...but not all of it.


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I'm from Georgia and my hubby is from West Virginia. We would refer to JonBenet as our daughter.
Actually if that was me on the 911 call most of the sounds you would hear is me screaming that someone took my baby girl!!!!!!!! Her name is JonBenet! Don't you dare come in a cop car! They are gonna cut off my babies head if you do! FIND HER NOW!!!!! SCREEEEEEEECHHHHHHHH and I would have NEVER hung up the phone! Nor called friends over! Nor covered up the crime...... I may sound tough and this might sound cruel but I would have turned my son in if he did this. I know not everyone would do that I'm sure. But I have literally told my kids from an early age what to expect if they harm anyone else. I will not support them. :notgood: I swear I'm a sweetie but there are certain things I can't and won't tolerate. I refuse to. I've raised my children to take accountablility for their actions. When you apologize for something, state exactly what you are apologizing for. Acknowledge what you did to them. That you know it was wrong. That you have to hold yourself accountable for your own actions. It chaps my hide when I see people letting their kids get away with stuff. Then later wonder why their kids are in jail. Sometimes though... there are kids and adults who just can't be helped. They don't want to do right. They don't CARE. The parents do everything they can to steer them straight but to no avail. Sometimes you just have to say you did your best and let them suffer the consequences. (This is going on atm with a friend of mine ((not murder!)) and she's wondering what she did wrong... and she didn't do anything wrong. She did all she could to help them and its never been enough. She's had to wash her hands of her kid until he straightens up. If he ever does that is...)
 

PositiveLight

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Oh totally, you're not the only one to have noticed. Some of it can be claimed to be cultural or language differences...but not all of it.


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Is it just me or do they speak of her like she is an object or possession?
 

Heymom

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This type of distancing language is in all of the R's statements, starting with "We have a kidnapping." She didn't say, "Our daughter has been kidnapped!" The focus wasn't on JB, it was on them. "She's blonde." "I'm the mother." Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. But it seems to me it was sprinkled everywhere when they spoke.

Yeah, why in the hell would Patsy even say "She's blonde...6 years old..." in the first place? Like that is her defining characteristic? Her bleached-blonde hair? The dispatcher wasn't even asking for a description at that point...

Then she said "I loved that child" when talking in front of cameras....Not "I loved JonBenet" or "I love my daughter" but "that child." Like just some kid...

Oh these people make me so angry!
 

Heymom

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I'm from Georgia and my hubby is from West Virginia. We would refer to JonBenet as our daughter.
Actually if that was me on the 911 call most of the sounds you would hear is me screaming that someone took my baby girl!!!!!!!! Her name is JonBenet! Don't you dare come in a cop car! They are gonna cut off my babies head if you do! FIND HER NOW!!!!! SCREEEEEEEECHHHHHHHH and I would have NEVER hung up the phone! Nor called friends over! Nor covered up the crime...... I may sound tough and this might sound cruel but I would have turned my son in if he did this. I know not everyone would do that I'm sure. But I have literally told my kids from an early age what to expect if they harm anyone else. I will not support them. :notgood: I swear I'm a sweetie but there are certain things I can't and won't tolerate. I refuse to. I've raised my children to take accountablility for their actions. When you apologize for something, state exactly what you are apologizing for. Acknowledge what you did to them. That you know it was wrong. That you have to hold yourself accountable for your own actions. It chaps my hide when I see people letting their kids get away with stuff. Then later wonder why their kids are in jail. Sometimes though... there are kids and adults who just can't be helped. They don't want to do right. They don't CARE. The parents do everything they can to steer them straight but to no avail. Sometimes you just have to say you did your best and let them suffer the consequences. (This is going on atm with a friend of mine ((not murder!)) and she's wondering what she did wrong... and she didn't do anything wrong. She did all she could to help them and its never been enough. She's had to wash her hands of her kid until he straightens up. If he ever does that is...)

Well, PositiveLight, between us, we know that the whole situation wasn't real in the first place, so Patsy's acting job was as fake as the ransom note. Yes, they should have let the consequences take place, they sacrificed JonBenet to save Burke when the truth would have at least left them able to face life without lying for the rest of theirs. People without a lot of money couldn't do what they did, they wouldn't have had the resources to afford the lawyers who kept them from being arrested and interrogated. It's really sad to think that our justice system really isn't blind. It's just corrupt.
 

Annapurna

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Is it just me or do they speak of her like she is an object or possession?

Yes!!! They totally do. To me that seems like a symptom of PR's narcissism, the child becomes just an extension of the mother and not a living being with their own thoughts and feelings. She was Patsy's (almost) perfect doll. "That child" as she was referred to.
PR dressed her up, wound her key and sent her on stage. She bought expensive clothes to dress her up.
I do believe she was the apple of Patsy's eye, but I don't know if PR was mentally healthy enough to allow JB to be her own person.


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PositiveLight

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Yall should really read this interview with the Ramsey's previous housekeeper Linda Wilcox. She discusses how Patsy and John treated the kids, each other and the help. It's VERY eye opening. Seriously. left me like :eek:. She apparently isn't one of the circle that kept quiet. She even says she believes there was no intruder at all. Patsy really didn't have much to do with JonBenet until she started doing pageants. Her nanny took care of her. Until then, Burke was her "project" as Linda puts it. Would explain how Burke spiraled after that.
I also found it interesting about the incident she refers to with John and the vaccum. He sounds like a pure a$$hole. Seriously. I used to think he was just busy working and probably a nice guy for the most part. Until I started reading interviews. Now I can see the fakeness that I used to think was kindness. Honestly. I think JonBenet was the only one of the 4 who had a good sunny heart and disposition. Where she got it I haven't a clue. JMOO
Here's the link to the interview. A candy rose is a wealth of knowledge. So is this forum. Learning more each day!

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-linda-wilcox.htm
 

PositiveLight

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Well, PositiveLight, between us, we know that the whole situation wasn't real in the first place, so Patsy's acting job was as fake as the ransom note. Yes, they should have let the consequences take place, they sacrificed JonBenet to save Burke when the truth would have at least left them able to face life without lying for the rest of theirs. People without a lot of money couldn't do what they did, they wouldn't have had the resources to afford the lawyers who kept them from being arrested and interrogated. It's really sad to think that our justice system really isn't blind. It's just corrupt.

Well said!
 

PositiveLight

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Yes!!! They totally do. To me that seems like a symptom of PR's narcissism, the child becomes just an extension of the mother and not a living being with their own thoughts and feelings. She was Patsy's (almost) perfect doll. "That child" as she was referred to.
PR dressed her up, wound her key and sent her on stage. She bought expensive clothes to dress her up.
I do believe she was the apple of Patsy's eye, but I don't know if PR was mentally healthy enough to allow JB to be her own person.


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Agreed! You know speaking of JonBenet's clothes... Linda in the link I posted above stated that until JonBenet started with the pageants, she just wore Burke's hand me downs and only had nice outfits for photos basically. All a front. The nanny did all of the raising. John once was trying to get JonBenet dressed for the day and was mad because he couldn't find any clothing that even matched. She also said Burke stopped wetting the bed when Patsy started on her new project JonBenet. Then JonBenet started wetting the bed again. I try to keep in mind something I read in Ann Rule's first book about Ted Bundy, The stranger Beside me. (good book btw!) She said that Ted had three sides to him. The side that the public saw, the side his girlfriend and family saw, then the monster side that his victims saw. I think this explains JR and PR too. What they present to the world is far different than what they are like in the home. I doubt even their best friends truly KNEW them.
 

Annapurna

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I'm from Georgia and my hubby is from West Virginia. We would refer to JonBenet as our daughter.
Actually if that was me on the 911 call most of the sounds you would hear is me screaming that someone took my baby girl!!!!!!!! Her name is JonBenet! Don't you dare come in a cop car! They are gonna cut off my babies head if you do! FIND HER NOW!!!!! SCREEEEEEEECHHHHHHHH and I would have NEVER hung up the phone! Nor called friends over! Nor covered up the crime...... I may sound tough and this might sound cruel but I would have turned my son in if he did this. I know not everyone would do that I'm sure. But I have literally told my kids from an early age what to expect if they harm anyone else. I will not support them. :notgood: I swear I'm a sweetie but there are certain things I can't and won't tolerate. I refuse to. I've raised my children to take accountablility for their actions. When you apologize for something, state exactly what you are apologizing for. Acknowledge what you did to them. That you know it was wrong. That you have to hold yourself accountable for your own actions. It chaps my hide when I see people letting their kids get away with stuff. Then later wonder why their kids are in jail. Sometimes though... there are kids and adults who just can't be helped. They don't want to do right. They don't CARE. The parents do everything they can to steer them straight but to no avail. Sometimes you just have to say you did your best and let them suffer the consequences. (This is going on atm with a friend of mine ((not murder!)) and she's wondering what she did wrong... and she didn't do anything wrong. She did all she could to help them and its never been enough. She's had to wash her hands of her kid until he straightens up. If he ever does that is...)

I know this is a serious topic, but your description made me laugh. I can totally picture it, a normal person would be freaking out and clinging to that lifeline. SO bizarre that she called family friends over (and didn't even tell them what the emergency was).
Anyway, I know this kind of hobby can give way to a dark sense of humor (mine is midnight on a moonless night) so thank you for making me laugh (sorry if its offensive! I know it's serious) ❤️


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PositiveLight

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I know this is a serious topic, but your description made me laugh. I can totally picture it, a normal person would be freaking out and clinging to that lifeline. SO bizarre that she called family friends over (and didn't even tell them what the emergency was).
Anyway, I know this kind of hobby can give way to a dark sense of humor (mine is midnight on a moonless night) so thank you for making me laugh (sorry if its offensive! I know it's serious) ❤️


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I have learned in life we must laugh to keep from crying! 💜

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kanzz

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Yeah, why in the hell would Patsy even say "She's blonde...6 years old..." in the first place? Like that is her defining characteristic? Her bleached-blonde hair? The dispatcher wasn't even asking for a description at that point...Then she said "I loved that child" when talking in front of cameras....Not "I loved JonBenet" or "I love my daughter" but "that child." Like just some kid...Oh these people make me so angry!
"She's blonde...6 years old..." - was a "tell", imo. It sounded very rehearsed to me.
 

PositiveLight

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"She's blonde...6 years old..." - was a "tell", imo. It sounded very rehearsed to me.
Like she's reading it off a paper. Hmmm. Wonder if that was also written on the infamous pad of paper...

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Annapurna

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Agreed! You know speaking of JonBenet's clothes... Linda in the link I posted above stated that until JonBenet started with the pageants, she just wore Burke's hand me downs and only had nice outfits for photos basically. All a front. The nanny did all of the raising. John once was trying to get JonBenet dressed for the day and was mad because he couldn't find any clothing that even matched. She also said Burke stopped wetting the bed when Patsy started on her new project JonBenet. Then JonBenet started wetting the bed again. I try to keep in mind something I read in Ann Rule's first book about Ted Bundy, The stranger Beside me. (good book btw!) She said that Ted had three sides to him. The side that the public saw, the side his girlfriend and family saw, then the monster side that his victims saw. I think this explains JR and PR too. What they present to the world is far different than what they are like in the home. I doubt even their best friends truly KNEW them.

I did read that interview with Linda Wilcox. That was eye opening for sure. That part about her in only hand me downs makes me sad...it's not like they couldn't afford new clothes. Patsy was just distracted. I know her cancer played a part but that was when JB was a little older (3?). Poor little dear, she was ignored until she became a little doll. I can't imagine the amount of pressure PR put on her, to perform and win.

My mom (who got me into this case) loves Ann Rule, i'd bet she has a copy of that book. Bundy is an interesting guy.


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flourish

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Yall should really read this interview with the Ramsey's previous housekeeper Linda Wilcox. She discusses how Patsy and John treated the kids, each other and the help. It's VERY eye opening. Seriously. left me like :eek:. She apparently isn't one of the circle that kept quiet. She even says she believes there was no intruder at all. Patsy really didn't have much to do with JonBenet until she started doing pageants. Her nanny took care of her. Until then, Burke was her "project" as Linda puts it. Would explain how Burke spiraled after that.
I also found it interesting about the incident she refers to with John and the vaccum. He sounds like a pure a$$hole. Seriously. I used to think he was just busy working and probably a nice guy for the most part. Until I started reading interviews. Now I can see the fakeness that I used to think was kindness. Honestly. I think JonBenet was the only one of the 4 who had a good sunny heart and disposition. Where she got it I haven't a clue. JMOO
Here's the link to the interview. A candy rose is a wealth of knowledge. So is this forum. Learning more each day!

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-linda-wilcox.htm
Holy business that was a wild read! Let's talk about "fat" for a minute. Ms Wilcox mentions that the former nanny (like was former at the time of this event) wanted to take Jonbenet to McDonald's because Jonbenet had previously super loved McDonald's, (when the nanny was still the nanny, like), and she tells Jonbenet, who responds with a flat, "Eating McDonald's makes you fat."

At some point after Jonbenet starts doing pageants, Ms Wilcox says Burke asked his mom if he was fat and she's like no why and he's like because people don't ooh and ahh over me.

So, clearly, "fat" equaled "bad and generally undesirable" in this family. I'm not SURPRISED, per se, just hadn't actually seen it put out there like THAT.

I mean, I'm a fat lady, and, like, I know I'm fat and that it doesn't make me a bad person and what not, but I realize a lot of people do think that, consciously or subconsciously, so it's a button, so to speak. Anyhoo. Jonbenet really was the only little ray of sunshine in that family.
 

kanzz

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I'm from Georgia and my hubby is from West Virginia. We would refer to JonBenet as our daughter. Actually if that was me on the 911 call most of the sounds you would hear is me screaming that someone took my baby girl!!!!!!!! Her name is JonBenet! Don't you dare come in a cop car! They are gonna cut off my babies head if you do! FIND HER NOW!!!!! SCREEEEEEEECHHHHHHHH and I would have NEVER hung up the phone! Nor called friends over! Nor covered up the crime...... I may sound tough and this might sound cruel but I would have turned my son in if he did this. I know not everyone would do that I'm sure. But I have literally told my kids from an early age what to expect if they harm anyone else. I will not support them. :notgood: I swear I'm a sweetie but there are certain things I can't and won't tolerate. I refuse to. I've raised my children to take accountablility for their actions. When you apologize for something, state exactly what you are apologizing for. Acknowledge what you did to them. That you know it was wrong. That you have to hold yourself accountable for your own actions. It chaps my hide when I see people letting their kids get away with stuff. Then later wonder why their kids are in jail. Sometimes though... there are kids and adults who just can't be helped. They don't want to do right. They don't CARE. The parents do everything they can to steer them straight but to no avail. Sometimes you just have to say you did your best and let them suffer the consequences. (This is going on atm with a friend of mine ((not murder!)) and she's wondering what she did wrong... and she didn't do anything wrong. She did all she could to help them and its never been enough. She's had to wash her hands of her kid until he straightens up. If he ever does that is...)

BBM

I've always found it extremely telling that PR called friends to the house that morning. The word "odd" doesn't even cover it. Never mind the cautions of the RN, we all know that was a ruse. But for her to need anyone there other than JR is telling. And then, that JR quite obviously distanced himself from PR - is another tell, imo. These two were not there for each other that morning. They were not a pair or a team. It was her friends and the victim advocates who were consoling PR, not her husband. In fact, even after Det Patterson ordered everyone who was allowed to remain in the house to stay in the rear study (and he declared the rest of the house off limits), JR wandered off for approx 80 mins.
 

PositiveLight

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Holy business that was a wild read! Let's talk about "fat" for a minute. Ms Wilcox mentions that the former nanny (like was former at the time of this event) wanted to take Jonbenet to McDonald's because Jonbenet had previously super loved McDonald's, (when the nanny was still the nanny, like), and she tells Jonbenet, who responds with a flat, "Eating McDonald's makes you fat."

At some point after Jonbenet starts doing pageants, Ms Wilcox says Burke asked his mom if he was fat and she's like no why and he's like because people don't ooh and ahh over me.

So, clearly, "fat" equaled "bad and generally undesirable" in this family. I'm not SURPRISED, per se, just hadn't actually seen it put out there like THAT.

I mean, I'm a fat lady, and, like, I know I'm fat and that it doesn't make me a bad person and what not, but I realize a lot of people do think that, consciously or subconsciously, so it's a button, so to speak. Anyhoo. Jonbenet really was the only little ray of sunshine in that family.
Yes! I am "fluffy" too 😂 and I see nothing wrong with it. Those kids already had a complex about weight before they were 10. That's sad! I say I'm fat and sassy! 😉

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PositiveLight

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I did read that interview with Linda Wilcox. That was eye opening for sure. That part about her in only hand me downs makes me sad...it's not like they couldn't afford new clothes. Patsy was just distracted. I know her cancer played a part but that was when JB was a little older (3?). Poor little dear, she was ignored until she became a little doll. I can't imagine the amount of pressure PR put on her, to perform and win.

My mom (who got me into this case) loves Ann Rule, i'd bet she has a copy of that book. Bundy is an interesting guy.


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It was pitiful the poor child didn't have good clothes. They were rich. there was no excuse. :(Oh yes Ted sure was an interesting case study! She stayed in contact with him until his execution. She worked beside him a crisis call line for suicide prevention. You should definitely read it! She was his friend from the beginning and all the way to the chair.

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