Was Burke Involved? # 4

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Tricia, Sep 14, 2016.

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  1. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    Imho the parents possibly thought she was already deceased. I'm assuming they cleaned her with wipes possibly since she probably had them in her bathroom due to her incontinence. Probably in all the bathrooms actually. They were probably trying to do everything as quickly as possible so they didn't have to handle her for too long. Imho no matter where the initial crime occurred, she was taken to the area of the wine cellar to finish the staging not realizing they were actually ending her life in those moments. It had to have occurred within the 45 min to 2 hour window from the head injury. I do think BR attempted to strangle her with the same ligature and the parents just applied it tighter to appear as if an intruder did it. I don't think he had either the strength or the thought process to realize how long you have to strangle someone before they actually pass away. It's possible that initially he hadn't tied it and stopped once she stopped moving.
    Unconsciousness occurs in seconds but full death may take minutes. She was probably already unconscious after the head blow but possibly having seizures or noisy breathing. The ligature was applied long enough to make her appear dead to him. In fear he ran to his room and hid. I feel like their mama was still up packing and he didnt want to get caught because she was making noises or such. He had went to far and knew his mama would find her soon. This was possibly the scream heard by the neighbor. PR finding her and drawing JR down to the area by her scream. The flashlights noted by the neighbors (which is weird as hell that neighbors were watching so closely... maybe they all heard the scream and was being nosey) were used to move her body to the basement after cleaning and redressing her. The final strangulation occurred here and Patsy insisted on wrapping her in her favorite blanket. If we are being completely honest, we can't be sure JR or PR didn't leave the home at some point that night to get rid of evidence. PR wrote the letter as JR finished staging. I think the whole reason her death date was 12/25/96 was they THOUGHT she was dead when they found her only later realizing they actually provided the final death move. There was no going back at that point and they were sealed together knowing that all three of them were guilty. This would be important if they were going for first degree murder against JR. Maybe that's the real reason they refused to have her exhumed. Possibly more evidence could have been noted by a more skilled ME. I think the rest of the night was spent calling lawyers and keeping BR shut up and getting their stories straight. this is all my opinion of course.

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  2. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Why does JonBenet need cleaned up, and why bother if its an intruder?

    If the case is brother on sister then the brother wants to stage away any involvement, so he will redress JonBenet in size-12's, i.e. rationalize the underwear as a JonBenet choice, if there is blood then it needs to be removed.

    The same criteria apply to the parents as to BR.

    Lets assume BDI, CBS style. So BR has whacked JonBenet on the head and realizes it does not look good.

    So he stages the crime-scene in a child like manner, so he will remove stuff that does not look good, and replace it with BR appropriate references, then he might approach PR and say something like JonBenet fell down and never got back up?

    Any male in that house knows what a sexual assault looks like and why it required being staged away.

    Alternatively you have someone staging a sexual assault which is later revised?

    The revision did happen, we know this because PR authored the RN, otherwise JonBenet has been assaulted in her own house.

    The parents version of events contains the big clue: we all went to bed and slept all night.

    So the R's version of events and the intruders are all consistent except in one detail: who sexually assaulted JonBenet staged or otherwise.

    So when the intruder entered the house the motive was not sexual assault, it was abduction.

    So we can remove the intruder outright.

    That leaves a family member sexually assaulting JonBenet either as staging or an intentional act?

    If its staging then that has to be communicated to other family members so it can be considered and revised. So BR night have redressed JonBenet in the size-12's, he allegedly opened the gifts Christmas afternoon.

    If its intentional then maybe you might want to hide that or minimize your role?

    I'm thinking its a brother on sister case with BR infatuated with JonBenet and the pageants. Those pictures of JonBenet dumped in the basement might have belonged to BR, they might be the smoking gun?

  3. Meara

    Meara Member

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    DrollFF, please do post the transcript if you can get to it. I'd love to see it. TIA!!

    In general, I feel like I'm shouting into the wind here (if not at this point projecting from a spot further south, so stand back), but..... Did BR grow up to be a psychopath? Is that what we were seeing early warnings of in JBR's murder, if indeed he killed her? I think he suffered and suffers from other disorders because

    a) he doesn't meet the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy (which, as with all PDs, is characterized by fixed patterns of behavior that endure
    throughout a person's life).

    b) his behavior then and now is better explained by other disorders (No ASPD or NPD worth his diagnosis would grin all the way through a Dr. Phil
    interview. He 'd act bored or irritated, or condescending, or articulate and charming, or smart (smarter than you, DP) and detached. He'd assume
    superiority and would have no need or motivation to act shy or approval-seeking.).

    c) most psychopaths aren't murderers (corporations, banking, and politics pay better), and one so inclined would not kill once before puberty and
    never again but would present with a long history of aggressive/violent behavior (and the rest of the constellation for ASPD).

    d) BR was in treatment before the murder and afterwards, and if the parents had any inkling that he might kill again, we'd have seen a radical
    change in his circumstances and parenting, to protect him, themselves, and his "friendos".

    e) Kolar inclines to this view (He knows what an antisocial personality is and wouldn't have reached for the SBP explanation if there were a case for
    conduct disorder developing into ASPD in adulthood.).
  4. BBB167893

    BBB167893 Former Member

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    I have a question about BDI.

    Let's assume that the sexual penetration (I'm loathe to say assault) did take place just prior to or at the time of death, as has been asserted. That, to me, throws a serious kink in the BDI timeline, because the parents would have to work pretty fast to strangle her after Burke had done that.

    So, my question: is it possible that there were TWO penetrations that night? One by Burke, around the time (maybe just before, maybe just after) of the head strike, and then another as part of the staging right before the ligature was applied? I can see that happening, because it would give them a need to stage that part of it.

    So, am I way off base?
  5. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    Well I'm not a psychiatrist by any means. But I don't think we can completely say this was his last assault if he is guilty. We have no proof he hasn't re-offended. He hasn't been caught that is really all we know. He does live an isolated life and maybe does so to protect others from himself. JMOO but we can only guess at theories and guess at whether he's not repeated the behavior. It could be the right button hasn't been pushed or triggered. It's a good case study for sure. He came off as slick in the DP interview. Some of his answers made my hair stand on end. I'd be truly shocked if he hasn't re-offended in some form. JMOO

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  6. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    I think it's possible there was just one penetration. It caused bleeding which alerted the parents to it and they cleaned it up the best they could. I wouldn't be surprised if she was naked from the waist down when they found her. Imho the penetration occurred around the same time as the head wound. Maybe he did it to see if she would react and wake up. Maybe previously if they had played doctor before, she might have reacted in pain and after the train tracks didn't rouse her he poked her with a wooden object or something. I'm not sure if I think the paint brush handle was the cause due to the fact that they would have found evidence of it on the brush handle. Unless that was done and it's part of the evidence we don't know about. I think they wiped her down with baby wipes and that evidence was discarded with other items during the night. Something I read recently on the threads is it was the first time they didn't have their outside lights on? Plus the rooms inside that usually had lights on didn't. That tells me the parents didn't want movement outside or inside to be possibly seen by neighbors. Something stood out or grabbed the attention of neighbors late at night for them to notice someone moving about the house with flashlights. Why didn't they call the cops if this was out of the norm? I know a neighbor heard a scream but wasn't it a different neighbor who saw the flashlight movement? I bet that's when John was really using the binoculars. To see if anyone noticed anything and see if anyone was moving around in other homes before getting rid of evidence. JMOO

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  7. DrollForeignFaction

    DrollForeignFaction Well-Known Member

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    The interview transcripts are spread over two issues, here's part one and I'll post the second set when I have a chance. Please ignore any typos.

    (1) NE Oct. 3, 2016
    1998 Interview Part 1
    Summary of the article: NE has "obtained hours of video that was recorded as police probed if he had anything to do with the horrible crime, or if he held the key to the identity of the real murderer..." NE bulletpoints what they think are Burke's key revelations, namely that the metal bat with carpet fibers was not his and neither was the Swiss Army knife "a weapon police believed was used to cut a rope the killer used". Except he never specifically denies that it was his knife in the portion printed.

    "Schuler asks at various times if Burke would protect himself with a baseball bat, and if he owns or has practiced swinging golf clubs. Such inquiries were relevant to the investigation because a family friend had claimed Burke once hit JonBenet with a golf club in the face and gave her a scar - precedent for the possibility, later ruled out, that he had caused her death in another violent outburst."
    DS: Remember anything more about the baseball bat?
    BR: I think I might have had two bats. I don't remember coming back to the side of the house.
    DS: Okay, so you don't remember one being back there on the ledge?
    BR: No.
    DS: Okay, did you take anything else outside like, uh, you know, I remember seeing some photographs of some golf clubs, do you play golf or anything?
    BR: Mm-hmm.
    DS: Do you ever take anything like that outside?
    BR: No.
    DS: What would you take outside?
    BR: Just a golf club and a little golf ball.
    DS: Do you know which golf club, like if it was a driver, a kicker, a putter?
    BR: No, just a club.
    DS: Whose club was it?
    BR: Mine.
    DS: You have your own set of clubs?
    BR: Yeah, they're cut off.

    "Burke admitted he owned two knives, used for his scouting activities. Schuler brings up scouting and eases into the question of the knife while talking about the layout of the Ramsey's house. The police wanted to know about Burke's comfort level with weapons and their presence in the house, to determine whether a knife found in the basement had been used to cut the rope that strangled JonBenet."
    BR: I have two.
    DS: You have two knives?
    BR: I have one that says my name on it - it has Switzerland on it.
    DS: Uh-huh.
    BR: That one has a big knife, small knife, saw, corkscrew, screwdriver, flat head screwdriver, toothpick and tweezers. And I think that's it. And then I have another one that has a saw, scissors, it's got this little hook thing that you tie knots better with. Um, I said saw? A cork opener.
    DS: Both of those Swiss Army knives?
    BR: One knife is smaller.
    DS: Where do you normally keep those? In your scouting stuff?
    BR: I think I like (inaudible) and I have a little place for them in my room.
    DS: Did you take them both camping with you?
    BR: I just took the ---
    DS: The one with your name on it?
    BR: No.
    DS: Oh, okay. So somebody must have given you that one, for a special occasion?
    BR: My mom.

    "Burke explained how his dad, John, broke the basement window once when they got locked out, so they could enter the house through the basement. Schuler was probing Burke on this - as part of exploring Lou Smit's intruder theory that someone broke into the house and murdered JonBenet."
    DS: Did you ever have any keys that maybe, if you got locked out, you could get somewhere? Some people keep keys kind of hidden under something or out in the yard, or the secret hiding place they can put a key if they get locked out.
    BR: I don't remember. One time we did get locked out and there are - this is the basement but there are two windows to the basement, and my dad had to break the window and go around and unlock the door. 'Cause when the doors are locked, you can open them from the inside, but not the outside.
    DS: Are you talking about the basement windows?
    BR: Yeah, okay, both of the basement windows went through there and came up around - I think it was the front door.
    DS: Were you with him when that happened? When he had to get in that way?
    BR: Yeah I was with him but I didn't go in that way.
    DS: You waited where?
    BR: I don't know where, maybe this door or this door?
    DS: Okay, so he let you in that way?
    BR: Yeah.

    "Schuler asked Burke where people slept in the home and he admitted sometimes sneaking into his sister's room at night. Did he do that on the night she was killed?"
    DS: This bedroom?
    BR: I would sometimes sleep on - I forget which bed. But I would sometimes sleep in there 'cause mine got cold.
    DS: 'Cause your room got cold. So whose bed was this?
    BR: Um, JonBenet.
    DS: Okay, so when it gets real cold in the winter, would you sleep over here?
    BR: Yeah. I would sleep in there 'cause my room's kind of an older part of the house, 'cause that's the way it is.
    DS: Yeah, some of the older parts are like that, without the insulation in them. Okay, how often would you sleep over here sometimes?
    BR: Usually like really cold nights.
  8. DrollForeignFaction

    DrollForeignFaction Well-Known Member

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    (2)"Burke admitted pineapple was his favorite snack and told Schuler JonBenet liked it too. As The Enquirer has reported, the fruit was found in the child beauty queen's stomach after her death. Did Burke snack with her on that fateful night?"
    DS: Um, now when you'd go to bed at night, what was your normal routine - would you eat a snack before you went to bed, would you play for a while?
    BR: I'd usually get ready for bed and then play for a little bit and then, um, um, might get a snack, not usually.
    DS: If you got a snack what would you usually get? Or what would Mom let you have?
    BR: Pudding.
    DS: Was that your favorite snack?
    BR: Pudding and yogurt.
    DS: Pudding and yogurt? Some parents let kids have cookies and candy and cereal and fruit and things like that.
    BR: Yeah she would suggest like, fruit.
    DS: So what kind of fruits would you typically have at home?
    BR: I wouldn't have fruit.
    DS: You wouldn't?
    BR: Like pineapple.
    DS: Yeah, do you like that?
    BR: Yeah.
    DS: That's your favorite fruit?
    BR: (Nods)
    DS: So would there ever be - sounds like your mom was pretty nutritional.
    BR: She wasn't that serious.
    DS: Some moms cut up apples.
    BR: Yeah, she would do that.
    DS: What else would she cut up, fruit-wise?
    BR: That's all I know. Pineapple.
    DS: Pineapple. You mentioned that once before - is that a favorite?
    BR: Yeah, it was really favorite.
    DS: Probably the most favorite?
    BR: Apples or pineapple. Or watermelon.
    DS: Really? What about things like grapes?
    BR: Yeah.
    DS: Would you always have a lot of grapes on hand? Bananas?
    BR: I didn't like bananas but JonBenet did.
    DS: What other things did she like that you didn't like?
    BR: That's about it?
    DS: What about pineapple, did she like pineapple?
    BR: Yeah, she liked pineapple.
    DS: Who else liked it?
    BR: My mom and my dad.

    "Burke admits he didn't like getting dragged into JonBenet's pageant world. Schuler was delicately probing to advance - or eliminate - the theory that Burke could have attacked her out of jealousy.
    DS: What about, you know, when you'd get stuck having to go to JonBenet's things? Those weren't the most fun things. Those were pretty boring, huh?
    BR: Yeah.
    DS: Did you ever have to go to, when she had dance lessons and things like that?
    BR: Yeah, I had to go to ballet and stuff.
    DS: Did you? How did you like that?
    BR: It didn't last that long but I was thankful. It was boring, the short time it lasted. It was really bad, the short time it lasted.
    DS: What else did you have to go to that was really boring? You know, with JonBenet, when she had to do it.
    BR: That's about it.

    "Schuler asksed Burke to take him through Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and the day JonBenet was found. Burke tells him they slept together part of Christmas Eve, an interesting revelation - as cops attempted to learn if they were also together the next night, when she was killed."
    DS: Christmas Eve. Let's talk about Christmas Eve. Okay, you talked about how exciting you were, right? And that you tried to stay awake?
    BR: Yeah, I think I might have tried to go to sleep one of the Christmases.
    DS: Okay. Um, do you remember what JonBenet was doing that night - was she pretty excited?
    BR: Yeah, I think she actually slept in my room. So that I would wake her up when I woke up, 'cause I would always wake up before her.
    DS: When did you wake up the first time?
    BR: Um, 5:00. 'Cause it was Christmas.
    DS: And what did you do, did you wake JonBenet up?
    BR: She looked like she was in a pretty deep sleep so I waited a few minutes before I woke her up.
    DS: And then what did you do?
    BR: And then we went to wake Mom and Dad. They slept in 'til (inaudible) and then we went down and opened all the presents.
    DS: So let me see if I have this straight.
    BR: Wait, they said we could wake them up at a certain time and I had a little clock in my room. So then I went and woke them up.
    DS: So you and JonBenet were both up?
    BR: Yeah.
    DS: And you never went back to bed?
    BR: Nope.
    DS: Where would you guys wait'til mom and dad got up? 'Cause it's pretty early, right?
    BR: Yeah, we'd play in my room.
    DS: Do you remember what you played or did?
    BR: I think we played Nintendo 'cause I had tv in my room.

    "Burke confirms to police JonBenet's bed-wetting issue. Schuler asked about it because cops had theorized Patsy may have killed JonBenet accidentally in a fit of rage when she realized that her daughter had wet the bed - again - the night she was killed."
    DS: What do you know about JonBenet wetting her pants? Or wetting her bed?
    BR: I know that she did.
    DS: How often would she do it?
    BR: I forget how often but I know she did it a lot.
    DS: Was that a lot? Was that a problem they were working on to help her with?
    BR: Um. Yeah she was starting to, um, fix it.
    DS: How would you fix it?
    BR: Like, just like as you get older. Your body feels like it, that you need to do your business - it wakes you up, it gets better as you get older.
    DS: Did you concern your mom and dad that she did this?
    BR: I don't think it did.
    DS: Why not?
    BR: Well actually it sort of did. I forget.
    DS: What do you remember about that, about JonBenet wetting her bed? Or wetting her pants?
    BR: I just remember she wet her bed, um, she did wet her bed and that's really all I remember. That she was starting to get over it.
    DS: What would happen when JonBenet would wet her bed? What would Mom or Dad do?
    BR: Mom would change the sheets and all that stuff. And Dad wouldn't really do anything, he had to go to work in the morning.
    DS: Would they ever talk to her about that?
    BR: No. They did a little bit, just like saying 'you need to learn.'
    DS: How would they help her to learn to do that? Do you know?
    BR: I don't know.
    DS: Did you ever have friends that would do that?
    BR: Not really ever, maybe Fleet [Fleet White Jr, son of neighbors and family friends] when he was younger. But he didn't do it very long.
    DS: Sometimes it's hard to have sleepovers when that happens. Did that ever happen to anybody else you know?
    BR: No.
    DS: Was that a real problem for JonBenet? Bed-wetting?
    BR: Not a real big one.
    DS: Okay.
    BR: It was a noticeable one, though.
    DS: Was that all she did? Did she ever have, up, other kinds of accidents as far as -
    BR: No. As far as what?
    DS: You know, doing a number two by accident?
    BR: No. No.
    Editing and reporting by Dylan Howard & Melissa Cronin

    Part 2 coming soon.
  9. DrollForeignFaction

    DrollForeignFaction Well-Known Member

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    NE Oct. 10, 2016
    Part two promises "more revelations from the six hours of video footage of Burke and cops in a dark dance destined to uncover the keys to the murder." (I had to include that. That is the tabloid-iest tabloid line I've seen all year.) The article brings up the Aerospace tape and calls Burke "cagey," referring to him "stonewalling" and copying Patsy's phrase "Not that I can recall."

    "Burke walks cops through the terrifying morning when his sister went missing, revealing why he knew from the start "something bad happened."
    DS: Why did it make you feel scared, when mom came rushing in there?
    BR: I felt like something bad had happened. ...
    DS: Uh-huh. Did you hear mom and dad talking?
    BR: I just heard mom like going psycho.
    DS: Going psycho?
    BR: Yeah. All like yeah --
    DS: Did you go down to see what was going on?
    BR: I just stayed in bed.
    DS: Boy that must have been scary for you. That must have been real scary. What did you think?
    BR: What just happened?
    DS: And you didn't know?
    BR: I didn't know, I just laid in bed freaked out. ...
    DS: Mom sounded really upset? She looked upset, what did she look like?
    BR: When she was rushing in and rushing out, I was really worried.
    DS: Was she breathing heavy?
    BR: Yeah. She just looked upset.
    DS: Was she talking loud or soft?
    BR: Sort of like - oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
    DS: How would you describe psycho?
    BR: Like, like overreacting, cause I heard her downstairs, like oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, you know, so my dad was like okay, calm down. She was just like overreacting.
    DS: So you could hear mom and dad talk downstairs. Did mom and dad ever say anything to you? Did you wonder what was going on and go down there and -
    BR: My dad came up and got me and told me what happened.
    DS: Now was this before the police came, do you think?
    BR: I think they had called the police.
    DS: Do you -
    BR: It was after.
    DS: Do you remember hearing your mom on the phone?
    BR: No I don't think I could hear, cause I could just barely hear my parents downstairs from my room.
    DS: Okay, how was dad sounding?
    BR: He was sounding like, yeah, he wasn't going to like freak out. He was just gonna do what needed to be done. Like -
    DS: So he was trying to be calm.
    BR: Calm-ER, he was trying to be calm.
    DS: Did you ever see mom like this before?
    BR: No.
    DS: Did it scare you?
    BR: Yeah.
    DS: I bet it did. What was going through your mind at the time?
    BR: I was trying to think of what might have happened. So I thought maybe I'm wrong, or maybe my dad's wallet or something credit cards. But then I thought it was a little overreacting for something getting stolen.
    DS: So you thought it was something more than -
    BR: Something more than a possession.
    DS: So what went through your mind then?
    BR: Then I thought maybe JonBenet was missing, but that's not that - what are the chances of that happening? ...
    DS: Who is the next person you saw?
    BR: The policeman going into my room. No. It was either my dad coming in and turning off (on?) the lights, or a policeman coming into my room looking around... um. Wait, wait. It was my dad coming into my room and turning off the lights. And then there was the policeman coming in and looking around with a flashlight. ...
    DS: Could you hear them talking?
    BR: I just remember a small part when they were downstairs and my mom went downstairs, my mom was really nervous and my dad was trying to calm her down. And my parents called the police.
    DS: Did you see that?
    BR: No I just heard it downstairs.
    DS: Did you ever peek downstairs to see what was going on?
    BR: No.
    DS: Did you ever leave your room, even for a little bit, just to see what was happening?
    BR: No.
    DS: Why not?
    BR: Cause I was so scared. Until my dad like came and tells me what to do. I'll just stay here.
    DS: But you remember seeing your mom, do you remember seeing her rushing around downstairs?
    BR: No.
    DS: Okay. I interrupted you when you were saying what you had heard. And you were talking about your dad telling your mom to call the police or something?
    BR: He was like okay, calm down, like we can call the police; let's call the police.
    DS: You could hear that quite clearly from your room?
    BR: Pretty clearly. In the distance.
    DS: Do you know where they were in the house at that time when they were saying that?
    BR: It sounded like around the kitchen.
    DS: Why was that?
    BR: Cause it was kind of coming from down the wooden stairs, the spiral stairs. That's where the kitchen is. I mean kinda where the kitchen is. ...
    DS: What's the first time you can actually remember?
    BR: When my dad came in, that I remember, knowing for sure what the problem was. And guessing previous to that.
    DS: And what were some of your guesses?
    BR: That something valuable had gotten stolen. Um, that JonBenet was kidnapped was one of my guesses.
    DS: Really? Why did you guess that?
    BR: Because I heard mom say where's my baby?

    "Burke confessed to cops that in reality, he and JonBenet were far from the picture-perfect siblings they appeared to be in photos. The siblings 'bickered a lot,' he confessed. But he seemed to shut down when asked how his parents would discipline them."
    DS: If you sat in the backseat would you and JonBenet get along...? Or do you remember bickering with each other, or do you remember - you know, some kids bicker when they get in the car.
    BR: Yeah we bickered a lot. Not, I don't think, that ride.
    DS: Okay, you don't remember bickering that right? What hapepns when you bicker in the car?
    BR: We tickle each other and -
    DS: What would Mom and Dad do?
    BR: Say stop.
    DS: Do they get upset with you guys?
    BR: Uhhh, I don't remember.
    DS: My kids bicker in the car, okay, so a lot of kids...remember what happens. SO what typically would happen?
    BR: Um, they would just say like stop it, and it annoys dad driving. ...
    DS: Have you heard Mom this way before?
    BR: No.
    DS: Have you ever seen Mom upset before?
    BR: Not that I can recall.
    - Editing and reporting by Dylan Howard and Melissa Cronin.
    That's it!
  10. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    These are interesting comments to me.
    The golf club convo was a basic lie. He says he didn't take things like that outside then admits he took a club and ball outside.
    The knife that had a part to help tie knots with. Important in my mind. Was that the one found near her I wonder.
    The window broken by dad with Burke with him. JR said that occurred when PR and the kids were out of town. But apparently that was a lie. Also of note is the doors locked when closed. That would rule out an intruder using a door to gain entrance either before they got home or during the night imho.
    So Burke actually did go to JonBenet's room to sleep. He seems unsure which bed he slept in. Maybe he was embarrassed to admit he slept in her bed? Also it is strange for some reason that he would use the lack of insulation as a reason that his room was cold. Didn't they have heat?? Also JonBenet slept in his room too.
    VERY interesting!
  11. DrollForeignFaction

    DrollForeignFaction Well-Known Member

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    Also, here's a gif of the moment when Burke flicks Patsy's leaf people were wondering about earlier. I have the doc downloaded, it's about two/three minutes into the A&E doc. I think it's too big to be posted so here's a link to it:

    Looks pretty innocuous to me but ymmv.
  12. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    The whole snack issue didn't make sense to me. It seemed he was being very evasive imho.
    The nintendo. Was that an older model or the 64? Does that mean he may have already had the 64 prior to Christmas morning? Plus IIRC he didn't like sharing his games with her. SO if it was in fact the 64.... that means he didn't get it for Christmas. Also IIRC the reason they moved JonBenet's room to Melinda and Beth's room was because it had a tv in it with a vcr and JonBenet liked to watch movies to fall asleep. So JonBenet had a TV in her room too. He references it like he was the only one who had a tv.
    By BR's admission, JonBenet didn't have bowel accidents. So that imho would rule out her being the one wearing the bigger pants and pooping in them. JMOO
  13. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    THANK YOU for this! IMHO he seems disgusted by her show of attention. Like he could care less. Like WHY do you think I want to see this??? *flick* Patsy seemed to be trying to interest him in something and his reaction is cold. JMOO
  14. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    Is it just me or does Burke use words not normally used by kids?
    In my opinion he was coached by dad it sounds like. Or he was repeating things he heard his dad say about his mom. Burke seems cold to his mom but looks up to his dad. "Dad is calm but mom is freaking out. " Who can be calm when their daughter has been kidnapped supposedly? He heard an awful lot considering he was in his room. Plus why did dad turn his light off? To make it seem like he had slept through everything? JMOO
  15. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    Thank you so much for the transcripts Droll!!!!
  16. Sunshine4Me

    Sunshine4Me New Member

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    That is one of the theories as I have understood it, that the paintbrush and resulting splinter could be staging to coverup the nights original sexual assault, and not just to cover sexual assault from previous days. But it is hard to know for sure. What we do know is there was definitely penetration/assault of some kind or the splinter could not have gotten there, I'm certain of that. There was blood so she was either alive or had only just died and her body was still in the process of shutting down. I have trouble with the restaging of the sexual assault that already occurred that night though. Why redo what's just been done? I could be wrong but to me there's no need, you're only leaving more evidence, and not really erasing any because there was no foreign bodily fluids, DNA, or even skin cells from family of which we know. All we have are fibers which appear to be from the cleanup and staging. I would think even a frantic adult would know the less evidence the better. But I suppose the argument that you just can't think clearly in a situation like that could be applied. IMO I think there was only one sexual assault which was part of the crime, not the staging.

    I'm answering out of order, but for the first part of your post, yes, the parents would have had to have found her soon within the timeline to have strangled her if they were the ones to have done it. That goes back to the fact that I don't think Patsy ever went to bed that night and probably did go to wake Jonbenet to use the bathroom, so she would have known within a small timeframe what had happened.
  17. BBB167893

    BBB167893 Former Member

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    I guess there are a lot of possibilities that I haven't considered yet. I shall cogitate on this.
  18. BBB167893

    BBB167893 Former Member

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    Okay, Sunshine4me. I'm just ruminating for ideas, and these sound pretty good. As to your question, why redo what's been done?" I would answer to account for it.
  19. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    1.)Why would he think something happened?Unless he was part of it
    2.) Again no curiosity to go check to see what's wrong? Kids are nosy at that age. I think he was scared because he knew he caused it all.
    3.) Burke said himself in DP interview he wasn't "the worrying type."
    4.)Over reacting. Her daughter was missing! How could she be over reacting???? Sounds like a JR quote.
    5.) "Came up and got me" I take this as he got him and took him downstairs at some point before the cops came. He didn't say "Come up and told me" Hmm.
    6.) He's speaking highly of his dad. That his dad was calm and in charge. His mom he seemed to see as weak for over reacting. JMOO
    7.) This just has to be a lie. Every mom gets angry and over reacts at some point. Patsy had a dramatic flair and I can see her flipping out often.
    8.) Why on Earth would he think a credit card was stolen? That's just WEIRD. Of all things to say he thought was stolen... a credit card? I think that's a lie.
    9.) The word possession. Big word for a 9 year old. Was JonBenet considered a possession?
    10.) Why didn't the policeman turn on the light???? I think it was more important to thoroughly search the home and not worry about a sleeping kid.
    11.) I think that his dad threatened him he would tell the police what he did if he got out of bed or said anything.
    12.) Speaking highly of dad again. (He did the same in regards to the funeral too. He said you could tell his dad loved her. Didn't mention his mom also loving her.)
    13.) Weird that's the things he thought of. In DP interview however he says he wasn't sure if his dad was fighting off an intruder with a gun. Two different stories.
    14.) Bickering is not the same as tickling and laughing. Tickling is having fun.
    All just my opinions and reactions.
  20. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    I agree with it being part of the crime. I think the parents cleaned her up hoping no one who check that.
    If it had been an intruder they :
    wouldn't have cleaned her up
    Wouldn't have redressed her in different clothing
    wouldn't have wrapped her in the blanket
    plus I think the sexual assault would have been MUCH worse if it was an intruder.
    An intruder would have left her posed for the most drama when the parents found her.
    An intruder would have grabbed her quickly and fled.
    Less time at scene of crime = less chance of getting caught.
    Wouldn't have wrote the ransom book either. Nor put everything back where it belonged.
    There was no intruder.
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