Was Burke Involved? # 4

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Tricia, Sep 14, 2016.

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  1. Heymom

    Heymom New Member

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    So we don't have a confirmation that these really ARE the long johns JBR was wearing when she was "found" by her dad? I'd really like to know, because the panties and these thermal underwear are *not* in her size and neither would have stayed in place had she been able to stand up. If she was found in these, then someone dressed her in them while she was unconscious but before she actually passed away, because she released her bladder contents. All this time, I thought she had only urinated a tiny bit, and bled a tiny bit, into the new Bloomies, but if this is real, there is a different scenario to consider.
     
  2. BOESP

    BOESP Well-Known Member

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    What stood out to me was this portion of the interview (BBM):

    21 MIKE KANE: Okay. When you saw
    22 JonBenet in longjohns that morning, what did you
    23 think? It wasn't her pajamas.
    24 JOHN RAMSEY: On the morning I
    25 found her?

    0691

    JonBenet was found in the afternoon.
     
  3. kanzz

    kanzz kanzz=kansas

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    I do think these are the long johns she was wearing when she died and found by JR. I don't think we can tell what size they are by looking at the photo.
     
  4. singularity

    singularity New Member

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    They make multiple slip ups like that in all the interviews. They are never called on it. Whoever asked the question just moves on like nothing was said. Its way beyond incompetence.

    A lot of these people need to be in prison. It would be ironic if these people who spent 20 years to keep the Ramseys out of prison wind up rotting in a cell themselves.




    On the subject of these being so big they would fall down immediately, we don't know their exact size and even if they are too big, she wasn't going to run a 50 yard dash. She'd be sleeping in them. Furthest she'd probably walk is the bathroom. More than likely its not even the first time she wore them. If we can take the housekeeper's statements at face value, this was a normal, everyday thing in this house.
     
  5. Heymom

    Heymom New Member

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    I will wait for further confirmation that these are the panties and long johns she was found in. We know the Bloomies are size 12, and if you compare them to the long johns, you'd have to conclude that those bottoms are about that same size, and are stretched out as well. She could not have worn either of these articles of clothing if she were standing up - they'd have fallen down to the floor.
     
  6. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    Oh I did too. I loved his hand me downs!

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
     
  7. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    Great catch!

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  8. kanzz

    kanzz kanzz=kansas

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    I'm not sure how to compare the Bloomies to the long johns since they are in two separate photos and the scale isn't visible in the photo of the long johns. For all I know, they could be knicker-style 6T. The cuffs are a little stretched, but the waistband is in good shape. Oh heck.. IDK.
     
  9. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    singularity,
    This shows you and probably many other people have misunderstood, even misread, what has been said about the size-12's over the years.

    Here is my position on the size-12's and long johns. JonBenet was staged to look as if she went to bed in the clothes she was found in.

    This includes clean on size-12's and similarly clean on long johns, the latter PR says she fetched herself as JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms were missing.

    As part of a minimal BDI BR redressed JonBenet in clean size-12's and clean long johns.

    Who said he did, you are misunderstanding the theory.

    You have misread what I posted.

    Again, you misread.

    Great imagination, little supporting evidence, never a motive for murder.

    Yes many members perceptions regarding JonBenet's death is lets say skewed

    .
     
  10. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    BOESP,
    JR is only agreeing with Mike Kane's tense:
    .
     
  11. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    questfortrue,
    Yes the explanation for the pink nighgown is known as an ad hoc explanation. Early in the case there seemed no reasonable explanation for the pink nightgown, so someone suggested in arrived via static on the blanket.

    If you are staging a crime-scene you will not miss the nightgown since by definition it must be under the blanket, and will become visible when you lift JonBenet up.

    Also BR's touch-dna was found on the allegedly freshly washed nightgown, along with JonBenet's blood. So the nightgown has a role to play and its not an ad hoc one.

    The nightgown links BR to JonBenet and that crime-scene in particular, just as if the pajama bottoms lying on JonBenet's bedroom floor are BR's, this links him to another crime-scene.

    .
     
  12. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    singularity,
    Absolutely not, this is your misunderstanding.

    After JonBenet is sexually assaulted and whacked on the head, she is cleaned up and redressed in clean size-12's and clean long johns.

    Then she is moved to the basement where again she is wiped clean, Coroner Meyer confirms this in his verbal AR, then possibly a sexual assault is staged and she is ligature asphyxiated, allowing the release of urine. Read the Autopsy Report for the details, which the published images make evident.
     
  13. kanzz

    kanzz kanzz=kansas

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    Or - maybe she could have had those same clothes on beforehand and it all could have taken place in the basement? The head bash, molestation, (or even vice versa) clean-up, pulling up of the underwear and long johns, then the ligature strangulation. Next comes the staging, etc. I just re-read the AR. Am I missing something there?
     
  14. treeseeker

    treeseeker New Member

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    She quite possibly lost bodily function when she was hit, as that was a massive head wound. There was a urine stain on carpet outside the door of the wine cellar. It seems inefficient or awkward (sorry, I struggled with the right word) to place a ligature on her in the hall, and then move her into the cellar.
     
  15. kanzz

    kanzz kanzz=kansas

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    Unlikely, in my opinion. Keep in mind the AR. The head wound came first and she was most likely upright. Her clothing is soiled on the front. The ligature is in the back. The carpet outside the WR was stained.
     
  16. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    kanzz,
    There was a sexual assault, the coroner said so. There was bleeding, the coroner said so.

    So if JonBenet had been wearing the size-12's and long johns all along, then they should show the signs of the assault which led to bleeding.

    Her original underwear and pink pajama bottoms were likely bloodstained, and this is why she was redressed in clean size-12's and clean long johns.

    The AR tells you, before any pictures were published that both the size-12's and the long johns were heavily urine-soaked.

    Not a lot has changed, just people's perceptions, now they see the images, its pretty obvious, to me at least, BR redressed JonBenet in the size-12's and long johns.

    All these explanations for the size-12's and long johns are like the nightgown. i.e. ad hoc.

    No sane parent is going to stage their daughter in male long johns and over sized underwear!

    .
     
  17. debbiegarcia36

    debbiegarcia36 Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me the release of urine happened at the very end -after she was strangled outside the WC and she was wearing the size 12 panties and long johns at the time. So IMO no one re-dressed her in soiled clothes after she passed. Then she was moved to the wine cellar, covered with the blanket etc.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  18. kanzz

    kanzz kanzz=kansas

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    OK.. Yes. I'm with you now. I'd forgotten about the pink pajama bottoms in all this talk about the long johns. I totally agree that BR is the one who redressed her. I just thought there was something else in that AR I was overlooking and it was making me read and re-read! Thanks!
     
  19. kanzz

    kanzz kanzz=kansas

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    Right. Exactly. I agree. So, If my post made it sound as though I thought otherwise, I apologize. Head wound then molestation or vice versa, then the redressing, then the ligature strangulation outside the WR. After that, the staging and undoing including the move to the WR.
     
  20. ArianeEmory

    ArianeEmory I know the pieces fit

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    Longtime semi-lurker, but have never really gone down the rabbit hole on this one, as it's always seemed to me a situation of people overly obsessed with a case involving a cute little white girl (e.g., Caylee Anthony). But I've dipped my toes in enough to have some of the basics, and understand some of lingo (BDI, IDI, etc), and I do get that it's a super weird case.

    I do have one question as I've noticed the flurry of activity and I see stuff that seems "new" to me being discussed--what's the primary source of the new info? People keep talking about these pictures of the underwear that are new, but where did they come from? I know there's also been the news about the sketchy DA, and some lawsuit with Burke?

    If someone could give me a thumbnail sketch of the cause of the current uptick in activity, I'd appreciate it.

    (This is not a setup for me to argue the validity of sources. I am definitely not qualified. I will say "BDI" is about the only plausible-seeming thing I've heard, though, as a relative outsider.)
     
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