Was Burke Involved? # 4

[UKGuy]

Yeah I've read that. It's certainly interesting how they pretty much flip flop on this issue over the years.

I also ready candyrose, the encyclopedia, etc. My memory isn't up to snuff so I review certain aspects of the case every so often.

One more thing about the photographs...

If those could somehow be sourced to Burke I might take the Burke angle a little more seriously. At least then there would be something resembling a motive that isn't a piece of fruit. While highly unlikely, its possible during the pageant/photography sessions that he developed some sort of fetish with it and started to indulge in it himself. He wouldn't be able to develop the film himself so his parents would be aware of his unusual interest in her and that it isn't normal for someone his age regardless of any other issues he may have had. I suppose its possible they were aware of such an interest, laughed it off, and threw it into the "boys will be boys" category. They were certainly aware of them sleeping together. Would they consider an interest in photographing her to be a step over the line?

I still think an adult was likely taking those photographs but either way we slice it, this was a strange family.

Singularity,

On the Dr Phil show, when BR tells DP he snuck back downstairs, this implies either JonBenet is then currently lying in the wine-cellar or is asleep in her bed, note BR said he went back down to play some game?

Burke's Birthday Gift

TT: What, what do you normally store the Christmas presents say before the 25th.

PR: I the basement. I had them all in the basement.

TT: Okay. Because there were some extra Christmas presents. Who were they for? Do you remember?

PR: Well, I had, I had some uh, bagged up and kind of ready to go up to the lake.

TT: Okay.

PR: We were going to the lake the 26th.

TT: Um hum.

PR: Michigan. And I had Melinda’s and Stewart’s and John Andrew’s.

TT: Okay. Those were the presents that were down in the cellar still?

PR: Uh. There were probably were some down there.

TT: Okay.

PR: I don’t know when you mean down still.

TT: Um, on the 26th there was still some presents downstairs.

PR: When, uh, I was, if there were I don’t remember, I had them kind of. . .

TT: Kind of all over the place?

PR: . . .you know, all over, yeah. And I had, uh, I know I had a (Lego?) set down there that I had gotten for Burke’s birthday which was in January, so I. . .

TT: Okay.

PR: . . .I had that there kind of back, held back.

Does this look like a crime-scene, or somewhere Patsy was preparing for vacation? Also if the pictures found in the basement came from this room, how did the parents know about them and where they were located?

Burke's bedroom, nice and tidy when compared with JonBenet's, anyone see stuff on the floor that JonBenet could have been whacked with?

The Breakfast Bar pictures look neat and tidy to me, the only room house with questions appears to be JonBenet's bedroom.


Names of people who have slept in JonBenet Ramsey's bedroom at one time or another
Patsy's 1997 BPD Interview, excerpt

TT: Anybody else ever sleep in JonBenet’s room?

PR: My mother slept in there.

TT: Slept in that, she slept in that part that…

one of John Andrew's friends slept in there before. Erin From Atlanta.

...

Nedra Paugh
Pam' Paugh
Patsy herself.

...

TT: Burke ever sleep over in her room at all? In the spare bed?

PR: A time or two.

TT: And she’d sleep in Burke’s room every once and a while too?

PR: Every once and while.

...

Burke maybe had his own camera, something that has never been confirmed, yet he was confident enough to take Christmas Day photos. He liked to attend the pageants, so he could have developed an interest in taking pageant pictures, who knows, something innocuous enough, but which might have grown into something else?

.

 

[icedtea4me]

That is not a heart on JonBenet's palm. In fact it looks more like something a 9 year old boy would draw.

Gee... Why not just take it further and say that it looks more like something a 9 year 11 month old boy would draw?

 

[icedtea4me]

Mountain_Kat,

Basement Photos Refresher
Patsy's 1998 BPD Interview, excerpt


Photos were found and it was more than say five, since Trip DeMuth is comparing them with other JonBenet photo sessions, their nature well that's cutesy according to Trip DeMuth. Later BPD executed a search warrant at the Ramsey house in Charlevoix, Michigan, where allegedly they were looking for inappropriate pictures of JonBenet? The results of the search warrant were sealed.

.

If you had bothered to read further, you would have come across this:

[FONT=&quot]0206[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 1 THOMAS HANEY: Today is Wednesday,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 2 June 24, 1998 and the time is approximately[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 3 9:03 a.m. Again we are present in the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4 Broomfield Police Department. Present is[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 5 Patricia Ramsey (INAUDIBLE) and how did you[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 6 spend yesterday, how did you feel?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7 PATSY RAMSEY: Fine, great. I[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 think, a couple of things that I thought about,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9 that I wanted to clarify maybe. You were asking[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 about -- particularly about the pictures of[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 JonBenet in the basement, and I remember that I[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 had taken some Xerox copies of her portfolio[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 pictures, you know, studio head shots. And[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 there was a paper cutter down there, and that I[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 used, and that --[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 TRIP DeMUTH: That could be it?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 PATSY RAMSEY: That could be it.[/FONT]

 

[icedtea4me]

As for pillow in the kitchen.. Some people get their pillows and/or blankets when they change beds in the house. I for instance absolutly get them when i get up my bed and go sleeping in the living room . Maybe either JB or B got up to switch bed and sth trigerred them downstairs to the kitchen where the pillow ended up . Jmo

JonBenet's pillow in the Beauty and the Beast pillowcase is still on her bed.

http://www.acandyrose.com/002jonbenetbed.jpg

 

[Heymom]

Gee... Why not just take it further and say that it looks more like something a 9 year 11 month old boy would draw?

I was trying not to be too specific as to what the drawing might be. Boys tend to draw these depictions from quite young all the way through high school. It might just be me, but hmmmm. I do not see a heart, not even close to a heart.

 

[Ambitioned]

If you had bothered to read further, you would have come across this:

0206
1 THOMAS HANEY: Today is Wednesday,
2 June 24, 1998 and the time is approximately
3 9:03 a.m. Again we are present in the
4 Broomfield Police Department. Present is
5 Patricia Ramsey (INAUDIBLE) and how did you
6 spend yesterday, how did you feel?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Fine, great. I
8 think, a couple of things that I thought about,
9 that I wanted to clarify maybe. You were asking
10 about -- particularly about the pictures of
11 JonBenet in the basement, and I remember that I
12 had taken some Xerox copies of her portfolio
13 pictures, you know, studio head shots. And
14 there was a paper cutter down there, and that I
15 used, and that --
16 TRIP DeMUTH: That could be it?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: That could be it.​

​

Oh but according to her she rarely went down there:

I read this from Patsy’s June 23, 1998 interview:


7 TRIP DeMUTH: A couple of questions
8 Tom. With Evan Colby, was there ever a time
9 when Burke and Evan were under the porch without
10 their clothes on something, like that?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding).
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Can you tell me about
13 that?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think
15 Cynthia Savage, my housekeeper-nanny, told me
16 about that one time. They were, there isn't a
17 porch to be under, but I think Evan taught Burke
18 that it was easier to go pee-pee outside than to
19 take the time to go inside to go pee-pee, so he
20 sort of taught him how to go behind the tree.
21 Evan is a little guy.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: How little is little
23 Evan?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I want to say
25 Burke was probably six or seven, Evan was 7 or
1 8, or something like that. And Suzanne told me
2 she came out and saw -- I think she said they
3 were kind of by where we kept this trash can,
4 sort on the left side of the garage and Evan had
5 his pants down showing Burke his -- works.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: Would Burke also have
7 his pants down or not?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think
9 I heard that.
Questioning about pictures of the basement toilet area:
15 TRIP DEMUTH: Look at all those pictures,
16 242, 43 and 44 and 45 together.
17 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the little bathroom in
18 the basement.
19 TOM HANEY: Anything out of place or unusual
20 in those photos?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the bathroom we hadn't
22 utilized very much. These little Christmas decorations
23 were left over from -- I had put those there when we
24 had the home tour two years earlier, because the
25 volunteers used this area and I had a bathroom
1 available.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: That photo 244 was shut, is
3 that how you left them?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, that, yes. I would have
5 left that. I left it like that.
6 Now this, I don't know what that is -- why
7 that would be there.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: Pointing to like tissue.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: It is like tissue something,
10 because I remember I specifically asked Linda some time
11 in the not-so-distant future to go down and clean that
12 bathroom because I think one of the boys had used the
13 bathroom and not flushed it. It was kind of yucko, so
14 she had gone down there. So I don't know if that is
15 her cleaning rag she left there or what.
16 TOM HANEY: Do you know for a fact that she
17 did clean it, could she have been in there since?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I don't remember that too
19 much about that bathroom.
20 TOM HANEY: When you were present she wasn't
21 in there?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. The door was usually
23 closed because that -- that door opens right when you
24 came down those steps. (Inaudible). There are a bunch
25 of smears on here.
1 TRIP DEMUTH: Pointing to 205.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
3 TOM HANEY: Do you recall seeing anything
4 like that there before seeing that?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No, because I had that whole
6 downstairs painted, I mean cleaned.
7 TRIP DEMUTH: When was that?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, 1994, before that home
9 tour, Christmas home tour.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: Who used that bathroom?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: The boys. You know, Burke and
12 Evan were down there playing with the trains. They
13 would go in there and use it.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: What do you mean that they had
15 not flushed that toilet, what do you mean by that?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think someone had gone
17 to the potty and hadn't flushed it. It was there for
18 several days.
19 TOM HANEY: Are we talking urine?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It was just
21 reported to me. It was, mom, the bathroom is pretty
22 yucky, and Linda took care of it is the way I think it
23 went.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: How common was it for Evan and
25 Burke to not flush?
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, Burke is pretty well
2 trained, because that is one of my big pet peeves, but
3 Evan I don't know about.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: What does that mean, Patsy,
5 when you say you don't know about?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know whether he
7 flushes regularly.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: That could imply, I don't know
9 about him because he doesn't flush, or I wanted to
10 clear that up.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I would believe
12 it was Evan that used it and didn't flush rather than
13 my son. I would like to believe that.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Was it a more than one-time
15 occasion in this bathroom down there?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: I just remember that one.
17 TRIP DEMUTH: When was that? It doesn't have
18 to be precise, I mean how long before Christmas?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I don't know
20 exactly. I just remember it happening.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: Right before Christmas?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: I just can't remember. I just
23 remember the event that there was a dirty bathroom bowl
24 and obviously the boys were down there using it and not
25 flushing.
1 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know, did Linda clean it
2 up, do you know?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I -- I am sure she did, but I
4 didn't go down there and double check it.
5 TOM HANEY: Is she usually pretty confident
6 if you give her something?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: Had you been in this bathroom
9 at all prior to Christmas of '96?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I hadn't been in there.
11 You can tell I haven't been in there since '94.
12 TOM HANEY: Anything else? The tissue of
13 some kind.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
15 TOM HANEY: 246 now.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Is that the hall
17 from here? No.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: That is a closer picture of the
19 wall.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, is it? Okay. It looks
21 dirty to me, that close up.

The "couple things I wanted to clarify" didn't come until months later.

 

[Ambitioned]

Do you remember during Patsy's interview with police they showed her pictures and a few she had a strong reaction to. Like it was an inappropriate. I wonder if someone took pics of JonBenet that wasn't proper on their camera. It had to be bad because that is one of the few times she got nervous or angry.

And what of this? I can't figure this out why they had the line of questioning about a pad, unless they saw the ransom note had been written at an earlier time?


Excerpts from National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" by Don Gentile and David Wright

1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy Ramsey by Tom Haney and Trip DeMuth in Colorado

NE Book Page 247-248:

(Notations in italics by Don Gentile and David Wright from 'The files of the National Enquirer: "Patsy was shown photos taken off a roll of film that John Ramsey turned over to the police in the hours before JonBenet's body was found. The roll was in the camera he used to take pictures that Christmas. To get the film to the end of the roll, John snapped off the lasts few shots. In doing so he inadvertently photographed the wet bar near the foot of the spiral staircase. The photo showed a black and red scarf left on the sink counter there. Patsy couldn't say whether it was John's scarf or one she had given out as gifts to the men who attended the Ramsey Christmas party on the 23rd.")

Patsy Ramsey: "...This (scarf) just looks strange to me...."

Tom Haney: "Well, this photo... was on your roll of film in your camera. And on the same roll is the next photo, a Christmas morning photo of the kids.

Patsy Ramsey: "...Oh God."

(Notations in italics by Don Gentile and David Wright from 'The files of the National Enquirer: "It was the first time Patsy had seen the photo. She broke down in tears down at this point. After she regained her composure, the questioning continued. The photo John Ramsey had taken of the wet bar area, also showed a table near it. On it were two white lined legal pads. One of them had been used to write the ransom note. It was the same pad that contained Patsy's doodles, other writings and the so-called practice ransom note."

Tom Haney: "Like I say, this was on your roll of film and it's not exactly the same photograph that was taken by the police."

Patsy Ramsey: "Uh huh"

Tom Haney: "And this legal pad that you --"

Patsy Ramsey: "Right."

Tom Haney: "--Identified--"

Patsy Ramsey: "Right"

Tom Haney: "-- do you know when that would have been in that position?

Patsy Ramsey: "No. So this, this was taken before...?"

Tom Haney: "Before the police photos... do you recognize that pad?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Yeah, but we had a lot of those around... I bought like those at Office Depot's of Office Max or whatever they are and I usually kept a bunch of them, you know, kept them over here, right about here in the kitchen."

Tom Haney: "By the telephone?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Yeah, but you know, they float all over."

Trip DeMuth: "So it wouldn't have been unusual to be where it is?"

Patsy Ramsey: "No. No. Gosh."

Tom Haney: "Just a second, okay?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Uh huh."

Tom Haney: "So would this particular note pad be, belong to somebody in particular or --"

Patsy Ramsey: "No, not necessarily."

 

[icedtea4me]

*snip*The fact that Burke smeared *advertiser censored* all over her candy is far more revealing as to how he felt about her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please, do tell step-by-step how you think Burke got his feces on JonBenet's pieces of candy in the candy box.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Thanks! The indictment says it all ...
...very clearly. I'm don't know why the IDI camp chooses to ignore it. It is very specific. I am wondering if the GJ heard testimony or read copies of Burke's medical or psychiatric history to come to the conclusions it did.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

I'm guessing they didn't because Kolar, who had access to the GJ documents as far as I understand, thought that requesting those records was the next step for the investigation and Lacy shot him down, saying it would jeopardize her relationship with the prime suspects the family.

Also, PositiveLight, are you sure the mother asked Burke to repeat that line and he refused? This is all I see in the book on that incident. This woman was the mother of Burke's friend Anthony, who was brought along to the Atlanta funeral as a playmate for Burke. Police interviewed her the day she got back from GA:
Upon returning from Atlanta on January 2, 1997, Kaempfer spoke to fellow parent Susan Stine and was told about a conversation Stine had overheard taking place between Burke and her son, Doug. This was reported to have taken place on the afternoon following the grief counseling session that had been hosted at JonBenét’s school on the morning of Saturday, December 28, 1996. Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death. Stine described the conversation as being “very impersonal,” and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were “talking about a TV show.” This discourse between Burke and Doug had taken place no more than two days following JonBenét’s murder and apparently had such an impact upon Stine that she brought it up in conversation with Mary Kaempfer at the first opportunity.

I thought this was interesting too:
While attending the memorial services in Boulder, and while playing with Anthony in Atlanta, Burke was described by Anthony as acting like “he kind of knew what happened and trusted that people would find out.”

 

[KarenM]

Burk seemed to have ADHD or autism in that childhood interview video. His social awkwardness and lack of emotion is not necessarily a sign of guilt. Many sociopaths have superficial charm. He doesn't have it in my opinion.

The CBS show lost some of its credit when they quoted Aerospace Corp's leaked 911 call transcript word by word and presented it as a new finding by the experts on their show. I, with many other viewers can't hear Burk as the transcripts of the extremely unclear 911 call dictated.

Dr Wu's analysis of the touch DNA was very powerful. But the show failed to mention the DNA found on the crotch of JBR's underwear is not a touch DNA. It has enough markers to be entered into the national DNA database. It also matched the touch DNA inside and outside the waist band of JBR's tights, and is consistent with the DNA found under JBR's finger nail. The DNA belonged to a Caucasian male, not an Asian factory worker.

The Ramseys do have a lot of things to be suspected, like the ransome note. But I personally don't think Burk stands out more than anyone else. Lin Wood probably will get CBS to settle the lawsuit, as he did with Star and a few other media outlets. He indicated the reason a lawsuit was not filed against CBS yet was that California requires extra time for parties to respond while Michigan (where Dr S is based) doesn't have this requirement. That's probably why some of the podcasts were removed.

 

[PositiveLight]

JonBenet's pillow in the Beauty and the Beast pillowcase is still on her bed.

http://www.acandyrose.com/002jonbenetbed.jpg

MS is referring to the pillow in the kitchen on the counter. It had a white pillowcase.

 

[icedtea4me]

*snip*
BTW - Hitting JB in the face with a golf club doesn't constitute a game of golf, either.

Nor does it constitute intentional assault. I do trust you know that people have been accidentally hit with a golf club as they were walking behind someone taking a backswing.

 

[icedtea4me]

[/INDENT]
Oh but according to her she rarely went down there:

I read this from Patsy’s June 23, 1998 interview:


7 TRIP DeMUTH: A couple of questions
8 Tom. With Evan Colby, was there ever a time
9 when Burke and Evan were under the porch without
10 their clothes on something, like that?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding).
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Can you tell me about
13 that?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think
15 Cynthia Savage, my housekeeper-nanny, told me
16 about that one time. They were, there isn't a
17 porch to be under, but I think Evan taught Burke
18 that it was easier to go pee-pee outside than to
19 take the time to go inside to go pee-pee, so he
20 sort of taught him how to go behind the tree.
21 Evan is a little guy.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: How little is little
23 Evan?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I want to say
25 Burke was probably six or seven, Evan was 7 or
1 8, or something like that. And Suzanne told me
2 she came out and saw -- I think she said they
3 were kind of by where we kept this trash can,
4 sort on the left side of the garage and Evan had
5 his pants down showing Burke his -- works.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: Would Burke also have
7 his pants down or not?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think
9 I heard that.
Questioning about pictures of the basement toilet area:
15 TRIP DEMUTH: Look at all those pictures,
16 242, 43 and 44 and 45 together.
17 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the little bathroom in
18 the basement.
19 TOM HANEY: Anything out of place or unusual
20 in those photos?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the bathroom we hadn't
22 utilized very much. These little Christmas decorations
23 were left over from -- I had put those there when we
24 had the home tour two years earlier, because the
25 volunteers used this area and I had a bathroom
1 available.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: That photo 244 was shut, is
3 that how you left them?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, that, yes. I would have
5 left that. I left it like that.
6 Now this, I don't know what that is -- why
7 that would be there.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: Pointing to like tissue.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: It is like tissue something,
10 because I remember I specifically asked Linda some time
11 in the not-so-distant future to go down and clean that
12 bathroom because I think one of the boys had used the
13 bathroom and not flushed it. It was kind of yucko, so
14 she had gone down there. So I don't know if that is
15 her cleaning rag she left there or what.
16 TOM HANEY: Do you know for a fact that she
17 did clean it, could she have been in there since?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I don't remember that too
19 much about that bathroom.
20 TOM HANEY: When you were present she wasn't
21 in there?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. The door was usually
23 closed because that -- that door opens right when you
24 came down those steps. (Inaudible). There are a bunch
25 of smears on here.
1 TRIP DEMUTH: Pointing to 205.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
3 TOM HANEY: Do you recall seeing anything
4 like that there before seeing that?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No, because I had that whole
6 downstairs painted, I mean cleaned.
7 TRIP DEMUTH: When was that?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, 1994, before that home
9 tour, Christmas home tour.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: Who used that bathroom?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: The boys. You know, Burke and
12 Evan were down there playing with the trains. They
13 would go in there and use it.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: What do you mean that they had
15 not flushed that toilet, what do you mean by that?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think someone had gone
17 to the potty and hadn't flushed it. It was there for
18 several days.
19 TOM HANEY: Are we talking urine?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It was just
21 reported to me. It was, mom, the bathroom is pretty
22 yucky, and Linda took care of it is the way I think it
23 went.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: How common was it for Evan and
25 Burke to not flush?
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, Burke is pretty well
2 trained, because that is one of my big pet peeves, but
3 Evan I don't know about.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: What does that mean, Patsy,
5 when you say you don't know about?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know whether he
7 flushes regularly.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: That could imply, I don't know
9 about him because he doesn't flush, or I wanted to
10 clear that up.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I would believe
12 it was Evan that used it and didn't flush rather than
13 my son. I would like to believe that.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Was it a more than one-time
15 occasion in this bathroom down there?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: I just remember that one.
17 TRIP DEMUTH: When was that? It doesn't have
18 to be precise, I mean how long before Christmas?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I don't know
20 exactly. I just remember it happening.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: Right before Christmas?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: I just can't remember. I just
23 remember the event that there was a dirty bathroom bowl
24 and obviously the boys were down there using it and not
25 flushing.
1 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know, did Linda clean it
2 up, do you know?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I -- I am sure she did, but I
4 didn't go down there and double check it.
5 TOM HANEY: Is she usually pretty confident
6 if you give her something?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: Had you been in this bathroom
9 at all prior to Christmas of '96?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I hadn't been in there.
11 You can tell I haven't been in there since '94.
12 TOM HANEY: Anything else? The tissue of
13 some kind.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
15 TOM HANEY: 246 now.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Is that the hall
17 from here? No.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: That is a closer picture of the
19 wall.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, is it? Okay. It looks
21 dirty to me, that close up.

The "couple things I wanted to clarify" didn't come until months later.

I do trust you know that there's a difference between rarely and never.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/rarely?s=t

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/never?s=t

 

[flgrl017]

Y

Singularity,

On the Dr Phil show, when BR tells DP he snuck back downstairs, this implies either JonBenet is then currently lying in the wine-cellar or is asleep in her bed, note BR said he went back down to play some game?

Burke's Birthday Gift

Does this look like a crime-scene, or somewhere Patsy was preparing for vacation? Also if the pictures found in the basement came from this room, how did the parents know about them and where they were located?

Burke's bedroom, nice and tidy when compared with JonBenet's, anyone see stuff on the floor that JonBenet could have been whacked with?

The Breakfast Bar pictures look neat and tidy to me, the only room house with questions appears to be JonBenet's bedroom.


Names of people who have slept in JonBenet Ramsey's bedroom at one time or another
Patsy's 1997 BPD Interview, excerpt


Burke maybe had his own camera, something that has never been confirmed, yet he was confident enough to take Christmas Day photos. He liked to attend the pageants, so he could have developed an interest in taking pageant pictures, who knows, something innocuous enough, but which might have grown into something else?

.

When was the photo on bf's bed taken? A lot has been made of PR's sode not appearing to be slept in. This bed looks like it was made by the maid.

 

[UKGuy]

Y

When was the photo on bf's bed taken? A lot has been made of PR's sode not appearing to be slept in. This bed looks like it was made by the maid.

flgrl017,
Not sure, but has to be after BR left the house that morning. Since Fleet White made the bed for BR before he left.

To my eyes BR's bedroom along with the breakfast bar and JAR's bedroom look relatively mundane, whereas JonBenet's looks like something has hit it?

Why would BR's feces soiled pajama pants be lying on JonBenet's bedroom floor, remember all that stuff about JR and PR putting JonBenet to bed, and they missed out on the pajama pants, or did they arrive after the parents went to bed?

Did BR become so excited over whatever took place between him and JonBenet that he defecated in his pajama pants?

Can anyone see JonBenet gliby allowing BR's solied pajama pants to lie on her bedroom floor, like : Oh they are just BR's, they smell disgusting but hey ho?

,

 

[PositiveLight]

I'm guessing they didn't because Kolar, who had access to the GJ documents as far as I understand, thought that requesting those records was the next step for the investigation and Lacy shot him down, saying it would jeopardize her relationship with the prime suspects the family.

Also, PositiveLight, are you sure the mother asked Burke to repeat that line and he refused? This is all I see in the book on that incident. This woman was the mother of Burke's friend Anthony, who was brought along to the Atlanta funeral as a playmate for Burke. Police interviewed her the day she got back from GA:
Upon returning from Atlanta on January 2, 1997, Kaempfer spoke to fellow parent Susan Stine and was told about a conversation Stine had overheard taking place between Burke and her son, Doug. This was reported to have taken place on the afternoon following the grief counseling session that had been hosted at JonBenét’s school on the morning of Saturday, December 28, 1996. Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death. Stine described the conversation as being “very impersonal,” and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were “talking about a TV show.” This discourse between Burke and Doug had taken place no more than two days following JonBenét’s murder and apparently had such an impact upon Stine that she brought it up in conversation with Mary Kaempfer at the first opportunity.

I thought this was interesting too:
While attending the memorial services in Boulder, and while playing with Anthony in Atlanta, Burke was described by Anthony as acting like “he kind of knew what happened and trusted that people would find out.”

Well this is new info for me actually. This quote.
The one that Stine recalled to Kaempfer.
I always understood it that the parent who overheard the convo questioned Burke again about it and he wouldn't say anything else or repeat it. I could have been wrong and willing to admit it.
It's odd that Stine said this considering later her family and the Ramsey's became so super close replacing the White's basically in the Ramsey's life.
Okay a few questions regarding this. Hopefully you can answer them for me! lol
So Doug and Burke were overheard by Stine correct? And she told Kaempfer about it? Was Anthony, Kaempfer's son, also in the room when the boys were discussing it?
Also, considering the fact that JR and PR both stated they never discussed the case with Burke and what happened to JonBenet except for the fact she was in heaven... and he was at another home when her body was discovered..... and I'm sure the ME hadn't released the AR yet.... how did Burke have knowledge of her manner of death?
Anthony's description is very interesting I agree!!!
Now we CAN theorize that Burke maybe overheard or secretly listened to adults discussing how her body was found. But if he did this then it would be just as easy to say he was eavesdropping during the morning of the kidnapping too. That would be normal kid behavior being nosy and curious. Yet they adamantly deny he was doing any such thing. That he was 'asleep' in his bed the whole time. Even a kid (Anthony) picked up on the fact that Burke knew more than he should. This also tells me that his parents maybe THOUGHT they had coached him enough not to mention anything that occurred that night and morning and to say he was asleep through it all, but Burke couldn't help himself in telling others. I bet money if you asked his friends that were around him during that time, now what they observed and heard from him, they would tell you he was bragging about it in a way. This is what usually gets criminals caught. They HAVE to tell people what they did. They can't fight the urge. I'd be interested to hear what his friends back then have to say about it now. THOSE would be interesting interviews.
Thank you so much for the quote!!! Learning more every single day! :tyou:

 

[PositiveLight]

Burk seemed to have ADHD or autism in that childhood interview video. His social awkwardness and lack of emotion is not necessarily a sign of guilt. Many sociopaths have superficial charm. He doesn't have it in my opinion.

The CBS show lost some of its credit when they quoted Aerospace Corp's leaked 911 call transcript word by word and presented it as a new finding by the experts on their show. I, with many other viewers can't hear Burk as the transcripts of the extremely unclear 911 call dictated.

Dr Wu's analysis of the touch DNA was very powerful. But the show failed to mention the DNA found on the crotch of JBR's underwear is not a touch DNA. It has enough markers to be entered into the national DNA database. It also matched the touch DNA inside and outside the waist band of JBR's tights, and is consistent with the DNA found under JBR's finger nail. The DNA belonged to a Caucasian male, not an Asian factory worker.

The Ramseys do have a lot of things to be suspected, like the ransome note. But I personally don't think Burk stands out more than anyone else. Lin Wood probably will get CBS to settle the lawsuit, as he did with Star and a few other media outlets. He indicated the reason a lawsuit was not filed against CBS yet was that California requires extra time for parties to respond while Michigan (where Dr S is based) doesn't have this requirement. That's probably why some of the podcasts were removed.

Wellllll.....
Didn't DP answer the question if burke had any autism etc and said he did not have any of those diagnosed. That he was "just nervous". So if we are to believe Dr Phil, he doesn't have any spectrum issues.
That's the first time I've heard that DNA was matched under nails, in panties and on long johns. The DNA under her nails was very degraded and useless. The ME used nail clippers that he had used previously on several other bodies without proper cleaning beforehand. I also thought they had at some point tried to say it was a Hispanic male DNA.
I sure hope CBS or Spitz does not settle and they take it to a jury trial.
I was under the understanding that the DNA in Her panties was her own DNA? I could very well be wrong.

 

[icedtea4me]

Thanks for posting those Droll. Looks like I have some reading to do tonight.

I haven't read that yet obviously but if people think his answers were coached, it devalues his statements. Cant say it was coached and then use those coached words against him in the face of the evidence. Cant have it both ways.


Not much at all which is why the doc had to skip over much of the case.


I certainly agree that those photographs are key. However, I doubt that a 9 year old is going to be infatuated to the extent of taking and/or collecting photographs of a girl. That is something that older boys/guys would do. If Burke was infatuated with her, he doesn't need a stack of photographs. He has easy access to her on a daily and possibly continuous basis. He "plays doctor" and even sleeps with her so why on earth would he need photographs?



Interesting question indeed and its one of many questions that causes BDI to fall apart from the get go.



TeaTime....

This could be chalked up to the Ramseys not wanting him to get involved. Yeah he did admit to listening to everything that was going on, which is something he didn't have to do and wouldn't have done if he killed her.


Obviously we don't know when she died or ate that pineapple. No one can possibly pinpoint the exact time he went down there. If this is some smoking gun, he never would have admitted doing it in the first place. Burke actually filled in a couple blanks and he was merely crucified for doing so. Unfortunately we wont be getting any more blanks filled in now.


His footprints were found in his house and in the basement/wine cellar? Why would this surprise you or anybody? Hell, he had a playroom down there.

THis means nothing. These two played together and slept together. Obviously tDNA is to be expected.


I've watched it and I don't see it as some smoking gun.

A 9 year old boy talked to his friend about his sister's murder. There's nothing surprising about that. Had he NOT talked to anyone about it, it would be much more alarming.

I agree the flashlight thing is interesting but this puts John in more hot water than Burke. Why is a grown man using a flashlight to go room to room in a house full of lights? Its another layer of their dysfunction.

This household's issue with poop is another layer of dysfunction. As we've been over before, none of this poop was ever tested and cant be sourced to him.



Murderer Servant....



Its a bit more believable than bashing her head over a pineapple snack. That doesn't come close to passing a smell test.



OceanBlueEyes...

Funny to say this to someone with 20k posts but you should post more. I definitely don't believe in IDI but the rest of that was solid and is needed in this section.

*applauds enthusiastically*

 

[PositiveLight]

Y

When was the photo on bf's bed taken? A lot has been made of PR's sode not appearing to be slept in. This bed looks like it was made by the maid.

IIRC
Fleet White made his bed up when him and John were getting him ready to go to the White's home that morning. I also questioned this too earlier.

 

[UKGuy]

Well this is new info for me actually. This quote.
The one that Stine recalled to Kaempfer.
I always understood it that the parent who overheard the convo questioned Burke again about it and he wouldn't say anything else or repeat it. I could have been wrong and willing to admit it.
It's odd that Stine said this considering later her family and the Ramsey's became so super close replacing the White's basically in the Ramsey's life.
Okay a few questions regarding this. Hopefully you can answer them for me! lol
So Doug and Burke were overheard by Stine correct? And she told Kaempfer about it? Was Anthony, Kaempfer's son, also in the room when the boys were discussing it?
Also, considering the fact that JR and PR both stated they never discussed the case with Burke and what happened to JonBenet except for the fact she was in heaven... and he was at another home when her body was discovered..... and I'm sure the ME hadn't released the AR yet.... how did Burke have knowledge of her manner of death?
Anthony's description is very interesting I agree!!!
Now we CAN theorize that Burke maybe overheard or secretly listened to adults discussing how her body was found. But if he did this then it would be just as easy to say he was eavesdropping during the morning of the kidnapping too. That would be normal kid behavior being nosy and curious. Yet they adamantly deny he was doing any such thing. That he was 'asleep' in his bed the whole time. Even a kid (Anthony) picked up on the fact that Burke knew more than he should. This also tells me that his parents maybe THOUGHT they had coached him enough not to mention anything that occurred that night and morning and to say he was asleep through it all, but Burke couldn't help himself in telling others. I bet money if you asked his friends that were around him during that time, now what they observed and heard from him, they would tell you he was bragging about it in a way. This is what usually gets criminals caught. They HAVE to tell people what they did. They can't fight the urge. I'd be interested to hear what his friends back then have to say about it now. THOSE would be interesting interviews.
Thank you so much for the quote!!! Learning more every single day! :tyou:

PositiveLight,
Just as BR talking during the 911, with JR replying directly links JR to the staging along with BR and PR. What Susan Stine overheard was not something BR should know about at all!

Two days after her death, means he either knew from direct experience, i.e he was present, or he overheard others, which blows the the theory that parents went to all the bother of macabre staging to insulate BR from knowing what took place, yet two days later, before any autopsy report has been released and BR is describing how JonBenet was strangled, so that theory never worked did it?

Thats part of the reason why I have always thought BR initially manually strangled JonBenet, i.e. he knew about it two days later. Consider his later interviews, where he goes on to describe how someone used blunt force to whack JonBenet on the head. So he appears to know exactly how JonBenet was killed, yet the blunt force was unknown until the AR was released.

This all simply circumstantial evidence but when you add it to everything else it looks bad for BR!

.