Was Burke Involved? #6

OldBackstop

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OldBackStop,
All three remaining members in the house that night played some part. The evidence points to all of them.

So....Burke hit her on the head, and John staged the s ene, and Patsy wrote the note?

I can't believe Burke killed her and then carried off the psych interview two months later.

I can't believe John stuck a paintbrush of her hoo-ha and garotted her while she clawed at it with her fingernails.

I can't believe Patsy could stand up under the pressure to her immortal should and carry off those interviews.
 

OldBackstop

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OldBackStop,
All three remaining members in the house that night played some part. The evidence points to all of them.

So....Burke hit her on the head, and John staged the scene, and Patsy wrote the note?

I can't believe Burke killed her and then carried off the psych interview two weeks later.

I can't believe John stuck a paintbrush up her hoo-ha and garotted her while she clawed at it with her fingernails.

I can't believe Patsy could stand up under the pressure to her immortal soul and carry off those interviews.
 

Rain on my Parade

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So....Burke hit her on the head, and John staged the scene, and Patsy wrote the note?

OldBackstop,
BR knew JB had been struck on the head in his Jan. 1997 interview. His touch dna was found on the top and bottom of the Barbie nightgown (found in the wc). Ask yourself why the nightgown is found there and splattered with JB blood? JR fiber evidence is found in the fold of JB (who ha); and yes PR more then likely wrote the note, on her note pad, putting the sharpie back in it’s proper container. Do you suppose an intruder did all of these things?

I can't believe Burke killed her and then carried off the psych interview two weeks later.

Key word here is: psych! Both children were seeing a therapist before this tragic night. I am of the opinion that BR has had to see a therapist most of his life. He has issues!

I can't believe John stuck a paintbrush up her hoo-ha and garotted her while she clawed at it with her fingernails.
where did the fingernails come into play here?

I can't believe Patsy could stand up under the pressure to her immortal soul and carry off those interviews.

Who are we fooling here? PR was very proud of her dramatic abilities! In my opinion she didn’t stand up very well immediately following the 26th of Dec. 1996.
 

proust20

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Most children are murdered by family or care givers. The same goes for SA. People who behave irrationally are difficult to predict.

BR left out JB in his drawing of the family.
 

UKGuy

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Most children are murdered by family or care givers. The same goes for SA. People who behave irrationally are difficult to predict.

BR left out JB in his drawing of the family.

proust20,
Was the SA part of a juvenile postmortem ritual. Violating dead bodies appears to be part of the playbook by those who are psychologically challenged?

Whenever BR gets married, will it be a public or private affair, and will the Paughs be invited?


.
 

OldBackstop

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OldBackstop,
BR knew JB had been struck on the head in his Jan. 1997 interview.

And he thought she was stabbed and demonstrated it with a knife when asked. And he didn't say she was strangled.

His touch dna was found on the top and bottom of the Barbie nightgown (found in the wc). Ask yourself why the nightgown is found there and splattered with JB blood? JR fiber evidence is found in the fold of JB (who ha);

They all lived in the house.

and yes PR more then likely wrote the note, on her note pad, putting the sharpie back in it’s proper container. Do you suppose an intruder did all of these things?

Do you suppose Patsy would undertake a cover up by using her own pad and pen? Do you suppose John would casually hand the ransome pad to a cop when he asked for something to write on? Do the Ramseys strike you as the stupidest people in the history of American crime?

Key word here is: psych! Both children were seeing a therapist before this tragic night. I am of the opinion that BR has had to see a therapist most of his life. He has issues!

Not sure of the relevance here, but anyone that has been to therapy will tell you the whole process is about openness and honesty, and any therapist can spot BS in a second. A nine year old is highly unlikely to pull off this deceptive cover up, and the psychologist, who worked for the state, reported that he didn't know anything.

where did the fingernails come into play here?

The theory of many is that John garotted JonBenet. The marks around the garote demonstrate that she was alive when this was done. Sorry....I don't believe he would do that rather than, say, calling an ambulance.
 

fr brown

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Yes, she clawed at the ligature according to renowned pathologist Lou Smit. The person who actually did the autopsy said the marks were petechial hemorrhages resulting from ligature strangulation, performed as she was mortally injured from the head blow but not yet dead.
 
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Swirlz

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That either child or that both children were seeing a therapist prior to the homicide is an internet rumor. There is no source for it.

Burke did leave JonBenet out of a crayon portrait. The psychologist noted that this was unusual but didn't pass judgement. He drew his parents first and only added himself after the psych prompted him.
 

Rain on my Parade

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That either child or that both children were seeing a therapist prior to the homicide is an internet rumor. There is no source for it.

Burke did leave JonBenet out of a crayon portrait. The psychologist noted that this was unusual but didn't pass judgement. He drew his parents first and only added himself after the psych prompted him.

Swirlz,
 

InstantProof

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I saw someone on The Behavior Panel on YouTube say the only sense he could make of this case was IDI but the parents thought Burke did it and they covered up. I read a theory on Reddit about Burke + a friend (I don't know if we can speculate that here?) which felt sensible to me, and would lead to the possibility of a mix of outsider involvement (IDI) and Burke's involvement/ parents covering for him.
 

OldBackstop

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I saw someone on The Behavior Panel on YouTube say the only sense he could make of this case was IDI but the parents thought Burke did it and they covered up. I read a theory on Reddit about Burke + a friend (I don't know if we can speculate that here?) which felt sensible to me, and would lead to the possibility of a mix of outsider involvement (IDI) and Burke's involvement/ parents covering for him.

That is interesting, I never heard that.
 

fr brown

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I saw someone on The Behavior Panel on YouTube say the only sense he could make of this case was IDI but the parents thought Burke did it and they covered up. I read a theory on Reddit about Burke + a friend (I don't know if we can speculate that here?) which felt sensible to me, and would lead to the possibility of a mix of outsider involvement (IDI) and Burke's involvement/ parents covering for him.

Rouse sometimes goes rogue at the end and starts offering up outlandish scenarios. Remember they aren't experts on the cases they cover and try (or are supposed to try) to keep themselves free of information so that they can give an unbiased assessment of the videos they're analyzing.

Developing scenarios is decidedly not their job. They are supposed to identify the topics that cause discomfort or deception in the person speaking and then tell you why they as interrogators would home in on that area.

That being said, my recollection is that they all felt as human beings that Patsy was an arrogant unlikeable namedropper. The Ramseys were being interviewed by Paula Woodward so they pretty much had it their own way.

Analyzing Burke on Dr. Phil, TBP thought that Burke's ever-present rictus was just his baseline when he was talking to an authority figure. I think Rouse said at the end the way he does that he thought Burke "knows something," but I don't think he meant the something suggested by whoever-it-was on reddit.
 
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fr brown

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I was watching "JonBenet: What Really Happened" yesterday. It stars Lou Smit, who said that by the end of his first day (and late arrival to the case) he had decided that the Ramseys didn't do it. No parallel investigation for him. He said that nobody could offer any instances of pathology on the part of the parents so they were in the clear because broken window in basement. Who would be offering up these instances of bad behavior? Unless the Ramseys are coming to the attention of law enforcement, who's to know what's going on in their house or in their heads? In my experience, people don't like to rock the boat and generally like to keep on the good side of millionaires. Even so, Priscilla White said that some of Patsy's friends were going to stage an intervention about JonBenet's pageant appearances.
 

fr brown

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Yes, she clawed at the ligature according to renowned pathologist Lou Smit. The person who actually did the autopsy said the marks were petechial hemorrhages resulting from ligature strangulation, performed as she was mortally injured from the head blow but not yet dead.

Regarding these"fingernail marks," I believe it was Lou Smit who characterized them as half-moons. Then, presumably because they don't look like half-moons, the Ramsey side starts saying just "fingernail marks." Then you have good-soldier Paula Woodward implying that coroner Dr. Meyer stated they were fingernail marks by writing, "Dr. Meyer also noted scratches on JonBenet's neck that appeared to have been caused by fingernails." He didn't say that.

Then you have Lou-sidekick Robert Whitson saying that "most" pathologists agree that the marks are from fingernails. Who are these pathologists? The guy hired by the Ramseys, Dr. Doberson, may have agreed that they could be fingernail marks. But I'm just taking their word for that because it wasn't in the Doberson report I saw.

So the description of the evidence provided by the Ramseys evolves to be better and better for the Ramsey side. They want JonBenet to be clawing at the ligature because in their mind it means that the garrote wasn't staging. Lin Wood tries over and over to get Steve Thomas to agree with that premise. But why couldn't it be both the proximate cause of death and staging? I think it's just that Wood can't imagine anybody believing that Patsy Ramsey would strangle her daughter while she was still conscious. (Of course, Thomas thinks JonBenet was unconscious from the head blow when the strangling happened so what is Wood going on and on about in Thomas's deposition?)

Lou Smit and Doberson only looked at autopsy photos, some of which are available online. To my mind, the only mark that could be described as a half-moon is curved in the wrong direction. And the marks in question are pretty far away from the ligature when I'd expect them to be directly above it, almost on top of it, and underneath it.

Here's what Dr. Meyer's autopsy says about the marks and petechiae:

"The remainder of the abrasions and petechial hemorrhages of the skin above and below the anterior projection of the ligature furrow are nonpatterned, purple to rust colored, and present in the midline, right, and left areas of the anterior neck. The skin just above the ligature furrow along the right side of the neck contains petechial hemorrhage composed of multiple confluent very small petechial hemorrhages as well as several larger petechial hemorrhages measuring up to one-sixteenth and one-eight of an inch in maximum dimension. Similar smaller petechial hemorrhages are present on the skin below the ligature furrow on the left lateral aspect of the neck."
 
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InstantProof

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Rouse sometimes goes rogue at the end and starts offering up outlandish scenarios. Remember they aren't experts on the cases they cover and try (or are supposed to try) to keep themselves free of information so that they can give an unbiased assessment of the videos they're analyzing.

Developing scenarios is decidedly not their job. They are supposed to identify the topics that cause discomfort or deception in the person speaking and then tell you why they as interrogators would home in on that area.

That being said, my recollection is that they all felt as human beings that Patsy was an arrogant unlikeable namedropper. The Ramseys were being interviewed by Paula Woodward so they pretty much had it their own way.

Analyzing Burke on Dr. Phil, TBP thought that Burke's ever-present rictus was just his baseline when he was talking to an authority figure. I think Rouse said at the end the way he does that he thought Burke "knows something," but I don't think he meant the something suggested by whoever-it-was on reddit.

Just wanted to clarify that his comments about the parents covering for Burke after IDI came, I think, from a video unrelated to the case where it came up. I don't think he said it in any of the videos where they analyze the R's.
I didn't watch Burke on Dr Phil because I didn't expect him to say anything besides he knows nothing, but I did see how everyone reacted to his behavior. The Behavior Panel gave me a better understanding of the Dr. Phil performance and made me less certain about Burke.
On this topic I wanted to ask, does any know who was the first person to ask Burke "did you see or hear anything?" on the 26th, or was he not asked?
 
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