Was Burke Ramsey a victim of sexual abuse?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by dcountmontecristo, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. dcountmontecristo

    dcountmontecristo Member

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    Following BDI, if Burke Ramsey was the person behind the alleged sexual assault or sexual abuse to the victim, could it be possible he was also a victim of the said abuse?


    Guidelines for Medico Legal for Victims of Sexual Abuse

    Signs:

    -bedwetting (enuresis) and soiling (encopresis) beyond the usual age, regression (in behavior, school performance, and attaining developmental milestone), social problems, problems at school, poor self esteem


    *The child victim of abuse tries to manipulate children or adults into touching his or her genitals or causes physical harm to his or her own or others’ genitals.

    Reference: Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States SIECUS

    FACTS FROM THE CASE:

    Burke Ramsey's interview with a child psychologist January 8, 1997
    (BONITA PAPERS)

    Social Services had previously provided Dr. Bernhard with some history on Burke which indicated an ongoing bedwetting problem, but Burke denied this saying that it happened a long time ago. Children are usually honest about this in interviews, and Dr. Bernhard wondered why Burke was not.

    Many of Burke's other responses also created areas of concern for the doctor. Burke displayed an enormous amount of lack of emotion, almost to the point of indifference, which Dr. Bernard explained may be attributed to shock, but could also have been a lack of attachment to his family. Since his mother had appeared very emotional when she brought Burke for the interview, Dr. Bernard thought that perhaps Burke could not deal with the family’s emotions and had therefore just withdrawn

    Dr. Bernhard felt there needed to be more follow-up with Burke in the discussion of sexual contact. The only show of emotion by Burke, other than the irritation with the questions about the actual crime, was when Dr. Bernhard began to ask about uncomfortable touching. Burke picked up a board game and put it on his head an action indicating anxiety or discomfort with these types of questions and that there was more that he was not telling her. Dr. Bernhard asked Burke if he had any secrets, and he said, “probably, if I did, I wouldn't tell you, because then it wouldn’t be a secret.

    (FOREIGN FACTION, Kolar)
    I had reviewed an investigator’s report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny - housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother’s first bout with cancer. She told investigators that Nedra Paugh, who was visiting the Ramsey home at the time, had directed her to clean up the mess.
    There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenet's bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.
    Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenet’s body."

    NEWS: The Sun
    BY EMMA REYNOLDS FOR NEWS.COM.AU and DANNY COLLINS
    21st September 2016, 4:14 pm

    They cited the evidence of a housekeeper who said excrement the size of a grapefruit was once smeared on the young girl’s bed sheets.

    Linda Hoffman-Pugh said: “After they sealed off JonBenet’s room, the crime scene technicians went through it, they apparently found faeces smeared on a box of candy she had got for Christmas.”

    (BONITA PAPERS)
    JonBenet was not the only child in the family who had a history of bedwetting... Burke also had the same problem past the age when most children start sleeping through the night without a bedwetting incident. Patsy had also had problems in toilet training Burke and out of frustration kept him in diapers past the age of three.

    Although considered intelligent by his teachers, Burke appeared to lack self-motivation and had motor skill problems which made it difficult for him to transfer his thoughts to paper, whether in the form of handwriting or typing.

    LINDA WILCOX (PMPT page 258)
    When the police interviewed me, they asked if the kids wet the bed a lot. I said yes. Detective Harmer asked if I thought that was unusual, and I had to say, "Not really. Not at that age." Burke wore Pull-Ups until he was six, and JonBenet always wore them. But I also told the police it was curious to me that Burke stopped wetting the bed when he stopped being the focus of Patsy's attention. And that was when JonBenet became a chronic bedwetter. But you know if you have little kids around that age, they are bedwetters. When I left in September of 1995, they were both still wetting their beds.

    PETER BOYLES RADIO SHOW
    Linda Wilcox Interview
    July 21, 1998

    PETER BOYLES: Can you remember any specific questions they asked you about the Ramseys?

    LINDA WILCOX: They asked me about the bedwetting. They asked me if I knew that those children wet the bed and I said, yes. And they asked me if that seemed unusual and I said well, no. About the bedwetting and John saying he didn't know. If someone is there once a week cleaning and knew, how could a parent not know?
     
  2. Dragognosis

    Dragognosis Former Member

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    "If someone is there once a week cleaning and knew, how could a parent not know?"

    Self delusion, a pattern of behavior repeated 12/26/1996.
     
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  3. Dragognosis

    Dragognosis Former Member

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    Imo Patsy was the destablizing hub of the family's disfunction resulting in toileting issues in the children and a pattern of self delusion (putting on blinders) in John.
     
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  4. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    Interesting about Burke. If he was molested, who did it?
     
  5. Swirlz

    Swirlz Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip>

    The only incident that can be sourced is the one from when he was 6 where according to Hoffman-Pugh he wiped poop on a bathroom wall.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2019
  6. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Swirlz,
    Yet they happened, thats the point, no smearing, no problem, no correlation, all hunky dory.

    The grapefruit on JonBenet's bed was attributed to JonBenet, as a behavorial feature backing up Steve Thomas' bedwetting theory.

    We now know definitively that JonBenet and Burke regularly shared the same bedroom, so maybe the grapefruit can be attributed to Burke?

    Similar with the smeared Candy Box, again attributed to JonBenet, so why not Burke in postmortem mode?

    Burke can be totally innocent but there are a lot of smoke and mirrors being held up when questions are asked about him?

    e.g. What color were the fecally soiled pajamas found lying on JonBenet's bedroom floor, blue and they are almost certainly Burke's as that was the color he wore on Christmas Eve, and Christmas Morning, yet Kolar does not divulge, nobody has, just like the longjohns were long underwear until they became Burke's longjohns with the release of the Evidence Photographs, same with the dna analysis, was there any of Burke's touch-dna on JonBenet and her clothing, was it absent, again, smoke and mirrors, nothing released ?

    without explanations for some of the evidence some people will always suspect Burke, and if you want to give him a pass due to young age, then what are the parents doing staging JonBenet as they must have?

    .
     
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  7. Dragognosis

    Dragognosis Former Member

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    "then what are the parents doing staging JonBenet as they must have?"

    "They" didn't.
     
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  8. dcountmontecristo

    dcountmontecristo Member

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    Exactly...the right question... could it be someone who owned the blue suitcase that contained his own semen and a dr.seuss book? i dnt knw... just guessing... i also have suspicion the said could be also responsible for the said abuse...
     
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  9. Veronica Lodge

    Veronica Lodge Member

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    This is interesting as the video of this interview available on YouTube, cuts out the part where Dr Bernhard must ask the uncomfortable touching question. We see Burke with the game on his head ('Guess Who?' of all games!) but not what had just preceded that. Hmmm

    With all the poop stuff surrounding Burke, I tend to lean towards the stories growing with each retelling ie. a nugget grew into a grapefruit, (that seems to have now become 'smeared' as well).

    I mean have you seen the size of grapefruit?? Weight Equivalents: Grapefruit
    Plus (thanks to Wikipedia for this nugget); "On average humans eliminate 128 g of fresh feces per person per day with a pH value of around 6.6. Fresh feces contains around 75% water and the remaining solid fraction is 84–93% organic solids." So an adult's would be about 2/3 of a grapefruit... maybe she meant Grape?

    People like to exaggerate sometimes, it can add more humour or interest to the story, we are all probably guilty of this sometimes.

    The poop on the candy box... look I really don't know... I respect Kolar but he may have got his wires a little crossed with that one. Fr Brown made some good points on this forum regarding that. If I can find the link to those posts where it was discussed I'll edit and add it here.

    Yes possibly. So Patsy suspects it's going on maybe, but John knows and fails to protect his younger kids. That's why he's uttering how sorry he is the evening of the 26th and Patsy says "We didn't mean for this to happen"...??
     
  10. Veronica Lodge

    Veronica Lodge Member

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    Maybe BR inadvertently began the next chapter of deception for JR. After the accident, John tells Patsy they must protect their son, and she assumes it's all for Burke (or pretends to assume it's for Burke, but secretly knew the truth, so is very angry hence the ransom note 'grrrr factor'). JR gets to work to hide his older son's crimes and either deliberately or accidentally injects Patsy into the crime/s.
     
  11. Dragognosis

    Dragognosis Former Member

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    John had nothing to do with it. Burke had nothing to do with it. Imo.
     
  12. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    WARNING, gross:

    VL, unfortunately I have seen many bowel movements the size of grapefruit or softballs
    And the consistency is irregular like tar.
     
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  13. Dragognosis

    Dragognosis Former Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
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  14. David Rogers

    David Rogers Active Member

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    John was all over this. The grand jury found him guilty on two counts.
     
  15. Dragognosis

    Dragognosis Former Member

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    A member of the G J came out and said they couldn't figure out who did what between John and Patsy. They wanted Hunter to clear that up in trial.
     
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  16. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    ?Gaslight?
     
  17. Dragognosis

    Dragognosis Former Member

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    The G J indicted them, it did not try them in court ergo did not find them guilty.
     
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  18. David Rogers

    David Rogers Active Member

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  19. David Rogers

    David Rogers Active Member

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    If Patsy killed Jonbent, would have come out by now. John would have outed her like a hot potato and got off Scott free. Not only that he would have become a hero and admired by everyone. He stuck by his sick wife even though she accidentally killed JonBenet. He kept the family together to raise Burke. He would be all over TV as the husband ever women wanted. He would be famous and rich just like he wanted. One problem. The police have unreleased evidence he is guilty of helping conceal the murder. If he admitted Patsy was guilty he would throw himself under the bus. Thus the continuing sham by John. That is why no one on the jury, the court staff, or the countless other people involved in the investigation have not said a word. They want John in jail.
     
  20. Dragognosis

    Dragognosis Former Member

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    Sure.
     
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