Was Caylee a "thrill kill"?

[debbie0604]

Here's my opinion for what it's worth...I don't think she killed baby Caylee for a thrill...I think the thrill came afterwards when she went out partying and was free to do what she wanted when she wanted. I think that in her head she had plotted and planned a couple of different scenarios, never really knowing whether or not she'd go through with them. The first scenario I think was in her head was to "do away" with George and Cindy so she could have the house, life insurance, etc. and play mommy to Caylee. The second scenario was to do away with all three--George, Cindy and Caylee--so she could be free. Perhaps in her imagination she allowed herself to think about several different versions...hence the chloroform, neck breaking, etc. on the computer...I think in her own head, to a large degree, she truly believed this fantasy life that she had made up for herself--the job at Universal, the nanny, getting the house from her parents, etc. So, in order to keep the dream/fantasy alive, she distanced herself constantly from everyone and anyone who knew or had the possibility of figuring out the truth....Then comes the big fight with Cindy, who calls Casey out on her lies and in a fit of rage, Casey either kills Caylee purposely or as an accident. Either way, the deed is done and she is so cut off from reality, she carries on with plotting the disposal of Caylee's body...She continues the fantasy in her head and imagines moving somewhere far, far away where her family can't find her...maybe California or New York...meanwhile, she avoids Cindy and George and Lee so that they can't figure out what she's done....and we all know the rest of the story...

I'm not so sure that she was going to do away with GA and CA. If that was a possibility, I would think she would probably have to chloroform them when they were already asleep. IIRC at that time KC was only around 100 lbs, and CA was much heavier then, I'm guessing at least 30-40 lbs heavier than KC. GA may be a little short, but he's muscular, and I think he could take KC in a quick minute. So I don't know how she could think she could have broken CA and GA's neck. I would like to think they would put up a pretty good struggle with her, unless they were chloroformed - already in their sleep.

I may be wrong here, but I haven't thought that possibility through. JMO

 

[Brini]

I was watching NG last night and after Dr. Marshall explained all the dark pictures and sayings on KC's computer it dawned on me that she may have killed Caylee just for the thrill of it. She had a perverted interested in the morbid aspect of death and torture and who is much easier to practice on than a 2 year old. At first I thought that she killed to be free and to be with TonE but she made it clear that she would not move to NYC for him. So, why would she kill for him?

What are your thoughts?

Those sayings and images are found, a lot, among teenagers. KC is at about that emotional developmental level.

I think she killed Caylee because she didn't want to be burdened with her. Secondarily to get back at her Mom.

"Thrill killings" are killings just for fun. I don't think KC had "fun ." It was all about practicalities, in her mind.

 

[Brini]

MMMMM John Luke Picard :blowkiss:

Or, Vince Pileggi (Skinner on X'Files) YUM! Bald men are sexy!

 

[tiredofthis]

When you think just how often Casey was either on the phone, or texting messages then I have to wonder how she did that with a toddler. From around 2 years of age, they are full of questions. Every mom knows how often they ask "Why?", I live with a 28 month old and she just never stops chattering. Did Casey answer her, or did Caylee just chatter on feeling isolated when it was just the two of them. You can't just get away with a "yes" to those why questions, they keep asking more.
I would ask what kind of mother was she, but sadly we all know the answer to that.

Remember the video where Caylee was on the floor coloring? Every once in a while she would turn toward the camera and say something, but never got a response. Poor, baby. I think this is how most of Caylee's life was with Casey.

 

[evergreen]

no but it will be a "thrill" conviction...

 

[Jolynna]

Those sayings and images are found, a lot, among teenagers. KC is at about that emotional developmental level.

I think she killed Caylee because she didn't want to be burdened with her. Secondarily to get back at her Mom.

"Thrill killings" are killings just for fun. I don't think KC had "fun ." It was all about practicalities, in her mind.

Practicalities is a good way to put it. Another word that came to my mind was convenience. Caylee was inconvenient.

Plus, the Anthony household was about to erupt. I'd describe Casey's relationship with Cindy more as a love/hate relationship than all hate. Despite the resentment, I believe Casey very much wanted Cindy to approve of her. "Good girls" have impressive jobs. "Good girls" love being mommy.

In a 'round-about way lying about working and killing Caylee was how Casey could do as she pleased and keep Cindy's approval. Casey got herself out of reach where Cindy could not check up on her. Caylee could no longer "tell".

So Casey was able to spin even better lies extolling her "mother virtues"..."Caylee and I are together bonding" AND her "work ethic"..."Universal is sending me 'all over' Florida, I'm so good."

If Caylee was killed to punish Cindy, Casey was not exactly trumpeting out how she'd gotten even. Instead, Casey placated her mother and told lies to promote herself as EXTRA "motherly" and "hardworking" (qualities Cindy had probably been telling Casey she lacked).

 

[Pollywog]

KC is just plain evil. IMO she killed Caylee in a fit of rage at her mother.

KC did not have to be pregnant, she could have had an abortion, could have taken birth control or could have given her up for adoption, she chose to have this child just as she chose to get rid of her baby. It is all about KC and has always been that way.

 

[ibyoungr]

Practicalities is a good way to put it. Another word that came to my mind was convenience. Caylee was inconvenient.

Plus, the Anthony household was about to erupt. I'd describe Casey's relationship with Cindy more as a love/hate relationship than all hate. Despite the resentment, I believe Casey very much wanted Cindy to approve of her. "Good girls" have impressive jobs. "Good girls" love being mommy.

In a 'round-about way lying about working and killing Caylee was how Casey could do as she pleased and keep Cindy's approval. Casey got herself out of reach where Cindy could not check up on her. Caylee could no longer "tell".

So Casey was able to spin even better lies extolling her "mother virtues"..."Caylee and I are together bonding" AND her "work ethic"..."Universal is sending me 'all over' Florida, I'm so good."

If Caylee was killed to punish Cindy, Casey was not exactly trumpeting out how she'd gotten even. Instead, Casey placated her mother and told lies to promote herself as EXTRA "motherly" and "hardworking" (qualities Cindy had probably been telling Casey she lacked).

No, she did not trumpet it.. because she liked Cindy calling and begging to see Caylee. She punished her more with the "You can't have what I got."

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

:bow:

I'm not so sure that she was going to do away with GA and CA. If that was a possibility, I would think she would probably have to chloroform them when they were already asleep. IIRC at that time KC was only around 100 lbs, and CA was much heavier then, I'm guessing at least 30-40 lbs heavier than KC. GA may be a little short, but he's muscular, and I think he could take KC in a quick minute. So I don't know how she could think she could have broken CA and GA's neck. I would like to think they would put up a pretty good struggle with her, unless they were chloroformed - already in their sleep.

I may be wrong here, but I haven't thought that possibility through. JMO

I'm with you totally! Logically, I agree. However, I think this all was a fantasy in her head that she played out over and over again, taking it a step further each time she thought about it. Maybe she was going to chlorofom them and take Caylee and run away. Maybe in another version she would hurt the baby and frame them...maybe she was going to get rid of her parents and claim an intruder did it...who knows...I just think this was all a fantasy planned out in her head and over time she mentally allowed herself to believe it was justifiable to hurt someone who loved her--whether it was baby Caylee or her parents. I totally understand what you're saying and I suppose we may never know truly what was going on in her mind.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

No, I don't see this as a "thrill-kill."

I think KC did the deed which eventually killed Caylee exactly three times.

I believe she locked the baby up in the trunk of her car with her blanket and doll one night so she could be with Tony. The first time, it worked out fine. Of course she probably drugged Caylee with cold medicine or Chloroform that first night.

The second time she did it, I think KC returned to the car in the morning (or whenever she was done partying), and Cayle was crying or screaming for Mommy. Therefore, KC realized something had to be done about the noise the kid was making while she was with the "nanny."

The third time, KC thought she was being wise. She put duct-tape over the baby's mouth and told Caylee it was a "sticker." To reinforce the "sticker" notion, KC did put a real sticker on top of the tape, saying to the baby, "And here is an even prettier sticker," or something to that effect.

When she returned the last time, Caylee was dead. The rest is panic.

But, no this wasn't a thrill-kill. KC did not care enough about Caylee to take the time to kill her on purpose. She would have to spend far too much time tending to the killing. And she had partying to do.

 

[eddeva]

She put duct-tape over the baby's mouth and told Caylee it was a "sticker." To reinforce the "sticker" notion, KC did put a real sticker on top of the tape, saying to the baby, "And here is an even prettier sticker," or something to that effect.

*resp. snipped.
i've always thought that this was a plausible explanation for the presence of the sticker: it was used to make caylee feel more comfortable about having the duct tape placed over her mouth (if you're using duct tape so no one will hear someone scream then you need a way to get it on w/o making them scream). it's not in me to believe that casey anthony has the emotion required to even think of placing a symbol of love on caylee, and if she did then why put it on the only place that was an active part of her death. if you were puting the sticker on caylee out of sentiment wouldn't you put it anywhere but the duct tape?
casey anthony has never felt love, that's not the purpose of the sticker imo.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

*resp. snipped.
i've always thought that this was a plausible explanation for the presence of the sticker: it was used to make caylee feel more comfortable about having the duct tape placed over her mouth (if you're using duct tape so no one will hear someone scream then you need a way to get it on w/o making them scream). it's not in me to believe that casey anthony has the emotion required to even think of placing a symbol of love on caylee, and if she did then why put it on the only place that was an active part of her death. if you were puting the sticker on caylee out of sentiment wouldn't you put it anywhere but the duct tape?
casey anthony has never felt love, that's not the purpose of the sticker imo.

I agree 100%. If KC had any real emotions or feelings for anyone other than herself (and I think her parents to a small degree), then I might believe she placed the sticker out of guilt, remorse or love.

However, I think the sticker served a much more practical purpose. It helped Caylee understand why the big ugly gray sticker was being placed there first...It was, after all, just another sticker...

 

[Sammiejam]

I dont think it was a thrill kill.

I think it was a PRACTICAL kill. (eta - you're right Precious, spiteful as well)

I often wondered why the heck the perp didnt just say "Great! You want custody? You got it!" and then just high tail it over to TL's or the nearest stripper pole.
And I finally realised today why she didnt do that.

CHILD SUPPORT. The perp knew DAMN WELL that CA would punish her for "dumping" Caylee on them and that they (the A's) would be telling all and sundry "Well she has a good job so why should we continue to foot the bill while she is out partying and ignoring her child?"

CA would have filed for child support so fast the perps head would spin to help pay for ACTUAL child-care etc and then all KC's lies would be exposed. Everyone (in her family at least) would discover there was no job and never had been, that her entire life was a lie. So, in my mind, it was a Mark Hacking style killing.

Also, it was a good way to punish CA.

 

[precious]

I dont think it was a thrill kill.

I think it was a PRATICAL kill.

I often wondered why the heck the perp didnt just say "Great! You want custody? You got it!" and then just high tail it over to TL's or the nearest stripper pole.
And I finally realised today why she didnt do that.

CHILD SUPPORT. The perp knew DAMN WELL that CA would punish her for "dumping" Caylee on them and that they (the A's) would be telling all and sundry "Well she has a good job so why should we continue to foot the bill while she is out partying and ignoring her child?"

CA would have filed for child support so fast the perps head would spin to help pay for ACTUAL child-care etc and then all KC's lies would be exposed. Everyone (in her family at least) would discover there was no job and never had been, that her entire life was a lie. So, in my mind, it was a Mark Hacking style killing.

Also, it was a good way to punish CA.

I totally agree with you, except I would change ..Practical to Spitefull.

 

[EchointheDark]

I dont think it was a thrill kill.

I think it was a PRATICAL kill.

I often wondered why the heck the perp didnt just say "Great! You want custody? You got it!" and then just high tail it over to TL's or the nearest stripper pole.
And I finally realised today why she didnt do that.

CHILD SUPPORT. The perp knew DAMN WELL that CA would punish her for "dumping" Caylee on them and that they (the A's) would be telling all and sundry "Well she has a good job so why should we continue to foot the bill while she is out partying and ignoring her child?"

CA would have filed for child support so fast the perps head would spin to help pay for ACTUAL child-care etc and then all KC's lies would be exposed. Everyone (in her family at least) would discover there was no job and never had been, that her entire life was a lie. So, in my mind, it was a Mark Hacking style killing.

Also, it was a good way to punish CA.

OMG how did I never think of this-- SA, HERE'S THE MOTIVE!!!!!!!

 

[Sammiejam]

OMG how did I never think of this-- SA, HERE'S THE MOTIVE!!!!!!!

I know Echo! It just hit me today when I was thinking about this thrill-kill theory. I was like OMG THATS IT!!!

Cos it has been driving me CRAZY why she didnt just leave Caylee, :banghead: she even said it herself to the investigators and I just COULD NOT for the life of me figure it out... until now.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

IDK...I just don't get the "WHY" of it all, but I can't see it as a thrill kill...even for KC. This girl, by all accounts was in trouble for a long time (as in heading for a major breakdown), even telling friends that she knew she needed help, wanted to commit herself. She was raised in a home where appearances matter more than actuality, and by nature was obviously predisposed to blurring that line already. It is no wonder that she made herself up as this successful, carefree, single mom of the century... and with such believability. I am surprised she wasn't called out on it sooner. The part of this that just doesn't add up for me is how little regard anyone seemed to have for what I would have deemed "cries for help" from my own friends. Hindsight is 20/20. I think killing the baby as opposed to leaving her was just the start. She couldn't leave the baby with the A's because they would soon meet their fate as well. Zanny and her crew would "harm the family" after all, and then Amy could move in with the newly orphaned and childless KC, who could "move forward" with her life and the "hand she'd been dealt".

 

[gogranny]

There is a pattern that has emerged....this is not a thrill kill.... "she hated her mother more than she loved that baby" as quoted by Shirley.....

It appears at the end of May, Casey was ramping up her partying. When she would stay out to late in the night 3AM ish... then a fight with Cindy and Casey occurs... Casey stays overnight with "the nanny" (Ric on May 29th and 30th) to keep Caylee from Cindy.

June 1st Casey is gone for most of the day and does not come back until early AM the next day.

June 2nd we have Casey, Cindy and Caylee all home in the morning (fight time??) Cindy says... you need to spend more time with Caylee. Casey say FINE and she takes Caylee the whole day...

June 3rd - Casey is needing momma Cindy for the weekend, decides to play nice, spend the day mostly around the house and the evening. Spending time with Caylee in order to apease her mother and after all she will need her on:

June 4th - Party at Voyage.. HOME at 3 AM ish... Cindy is not happy :furious:

June 5th - Comes home early at 7:45 PM spends some time with momma on her birthday - makeup time :blowkiss:

June 6th - Out to Fusion.. comes home at 5AM Cindy is REALLY MAD :furious:

June 7th - Cindy and Casey have a fight that was possibly the one that JC witnessed possibly at 9AM. Casey says F U and takes a little jog. Cindy says well fine... at tells Casey she and George are going to the beach.
Casey says FINE. I will take Caylee overnite and YOU will not see her.

June 8th - Casey comes home... another possible bickering fight. Casey says FINE, I will show you....

June 9th... Casey stays away overnite at Ric's. Amy is now there and Casey keeps Caylee away from Grandma Cindy. That'll teach her....

June 10th...Casey leaves Ric's with Caylee, stops by Tony's Then heads home at 4:30... time to make up :blowkiss: with Cindy, she is going to need her this weekend... doncha know.....So Casey stays close to home.

June 11th...1:30 PM Casey "leaves for work" she takes Caylee. George and Cindy just is fooled that she is taking her to the nannys.. BUT INSTEAD, Casey and Caylee head over to Tony's, goes by the Mall of Millenia at 5:30, heads home by 8:30 ands stays there....keeping the peace with Cindy.

June 12th... 1:30 PM Casey "is at work" she takes Caylee. George and Cindy think she is "working' and Caylee is at the sitters.. but she is with Casey, going to Tony's until 5:44 Momma calls Casey and talks FOR 20 minutes!!
:furious: Casey heads home because she needs a sitter for Friday night...
6:13 is promptly arrives home and stays the night

Jun 13th .... 1:07 PM Casey "goes to work" me thinks George watched Caylee that afternoon because he had Friday and Saturdays off. Cindy is reported to have had Caylee that night.
Casey comes home at 3:12 AM. Cindy is furious :furious:

June 14th 10:20 AM Casey and Cindy have ANOTHER FIGHT (76 minutes of no cell activity)
Casey says FINE..... Cindy says FINE.. but Caylee is STAYING HERE.
Cool, Casey thinks.. Casey heads over to Tony's and pings in the area at 12:13 PM to 3:38 PM Cindy called Casey at 3:29 and leaves a vm...
Casey heads home.. stays home for the evening...
They have another bickering fight at 4:37 for 56 minutes (no cell activity)

June 15th - Cindy takes Caylee for the day. Casey says fine.. I will go to Tony's. Casey comes home early...
bickering, bickering, Amy needs a place to move, Casey needs a job and money, getting kicked out, no money stealing from Grandma SP, BUSTED!

June 16th... It all comes to a head and Casey takes Caylee away from her mother permenantly. That'll show her.


Pattern
Casey out late. Cindy gets mad. Fight. Take Caylee from Cindy. Makeup. Casey out late. Cindy gets mad. Fight. Take Caylee from Cindy. Makeup.
Casey out late - doesn't have job -stealing. Fight. Take Caylee away from Cindy permenantly.

Great post ibyounger and it gave me an opportunity to post a thought I've had since June 15-16 became a somewhat target date for Caylee's passing. (Sorry this is tagged on to your quote but I couldn't find any space to type it in.) What if Casey and Caylee were in the backyard, Roy K came by, called out Meter Reader and Casey responded. Roy looks into the back yard, they start talking, they go into the house and a leave Caylee unsupervised in the backyard. Out they come and Roy leaves and that's when Casey begins to look for Caylee. She finds her at the bottom of the pool, retrieves her body, calls her parents several times, but doesn't connect with them, has to take a shower before her meeting with Tony L so she puts Caylee in the trunk to give Casey time to think. Many weeks later, having disposed of Caylee, she decides that Roy has some responsibility in this and calls him (he of course gave her his number in case she ever wanted to call). This would explain why he tried so hard to get someone to "find" the body at the beginning of August. Does this make sense to anyone besides me? I'm not sold on the accident scenario but I've been bothered about Roy K being so adamant (3 calls) but not actually making the officer open the bag. Then, in December, maybe Roy K thinks its to Casey's advantage to have the body found (or maybe he's been feeling guilty for the whole time) so he decides he'll go in, find the body, and MAKE THE POLICE FIND IT TOO! Tell me gently what you think. I love Websleuths and I appreciate all the hard work everyone puts in trying to help find justice for Caylee and to support her in this environment where she seems to have become a commodity to be sold for the benefit of her "family". God bless, and thanks for welcoming everyone. Gograny

 

[jeepgirlva]

Great post ibyounger and it gave me an opportunity to post a thought I've had since June 15-16 became a somewhat target date for Caylee's passing. (Sorry this is tagged on to your quote but I couldn't find any space to type it in.) What if Casey and Caylee were in the backyard, Roy K came by, called out Meter Reader and Casey responded. Roy looks into the back yard, they start talking, they go into the house and a leave Caylee unsupervised in the backyard. Out they come and Roy leaves and that's when Casey begins to look for Caylee. She finds her at the bottom of the pool, retrieves her body, calls her parents several times, but doesn't connect with them, has to take a shower before her meeting with Tony L so she puts Caylee in the trunk to give Casey time to think. Many weeks later, having disposed of Caylee, she decides that Roy has some responsibility in this and calls him (he of course gave her his number in case she ever wanted to call). This would explain why he tried so hard to get someone to "find" the body at the beginning of August. Does this make sense to anyone besides me? I'm not sold on the accident scenario but I've been bothered about Roy K being so adamant (3 calls) but not actually making the officer open the bag. Then, in December, maybe Roy K thinks its to Casey's advantage to have the body found (or maybe he's been feeling guilty for the whole time) so he decides he'll go in, find the body, and MAKE THE POLICE FIND IT TOO! Tell me gently what you think. I love Websleuths and I appreciate all the hard work everyone puts in trying to help find justice for Caylee and to support her in this environment where she seems to have become a commodity to be sold for the benefit of her "family". God bless, and thanks for welcoming everyone. Gograny

IMO KC would have thrown him under the bus by now if he was there ..

 

[Priester]

Here's my opinion for what it's worth...I don't think she killed baby Caylee for a thrill...I think the thrill came afterwards when she went out partying and was free to do what she wanted when she wanted. I think that in her head she had plotted and planned a couple of different scenarios, never really knowing whether or not she'd go through with them. The first scenario I think was in her head was to "do away" with George and Cindy so she could have the house, life insurance, etc. and play mommy to Caylee. The second scenario was to do away with all three--George, Cindy and Caylee--so she could be free. Perhaps in her imagination she allowed herself to think about several different versions...hence the chloroform, neck breaking, etc. on the computer...I think in her own head, to a large degree, she truly believed this fantasy life that she had made up for herself--the job at Universal, the nanny, getting the house from her parents, etc. So, in order to keep the dream/fantasy alive, she distanced herself constantly from everyone and anyone who knew or had the possibility of figuring out the truth....Then comes the big fight with Cindy, who calls Casey out on her lies and in a fit of rage, Casey either kills Caylee purposely or as an accident. Either way, the deed is done and she is so cut off from reality, she carries on with plotting the disposal of Caylee's body...She continues the fantasy in her head and imagines moving somewhere far, far away where her family can't find her...maybe California or New York...meanwhile, she avoids Cindy and George and Lee so that they can't figure out what she's done....and we all know the rest of the story...

"The second scenario was to do away with all three--George, Cindy and Caylee--so she could be free." BINGO!
I think that was her plan, but reality was a little harder for her than her imagined plot.