Was Defendant Deprived of Her Right to Counsel?

[mysteriew]

The above bolded by me.

Let's play devil's advocate.

KC is listening to the radio.. The announcer says that the remains of a small child have been discovered near Hopespring.

KC starts to rub sweaty hands and then hyperventilates.

The jail does nothing. Now would JB then charge the jail for “Cruel and inhumane treatment”? Of course he would.

As the poster states above, the jail is responsible for her care. I think what they did is proper procedure. She was near the facilities that would help her.

JB is blowing smoke.

I, myself, would like to see that video. I just wonder what it is JB does not want us to see.

I agree. In people expressing grief as well as anger and frustration I have seen people throw things, threaten or attempt to harm others, and attempt or threaten to harm themselves. So a decision to move KC to an area where they would be better able to work with her was a good decision on their part. And the jail had no control over when KC might hear the news as far as before or after JB's visit unless they told her themselves. She could just as easily have seen it on TV or heard it on the radio.

So let's say the jail didn't take her aside and tell her. Let's say she heard it on the radio. So the jail staff is supposed to let her react however she would react, alone in her jail cell and maybe injure herself in the process? Or maybe injure a guard who just happened to try to console or restrain her?

You are right, the jail was in a no win situation.

 

[KeysBreeze]

According to an attorney for the county, at one of the last motion hearings re: this video, he stated that the protocol was used as with any defendant in jail per this situation.

When there is potential 'bad' news the defendant is brought to medical. Where video is running all the time and she knew it. I think she heard it on the radio and when she got over to medical, put on an act. Of course, not thinking that she shouldn't be so quick to show the world she knew that body was Caylee. Ooops. Again. Now JB's trying to 'fix' the un-fixable.

When will an attorney for the county get up in front of judge Strickland and say enough is enough? CMA is no different nor special than the next criminal in jail and the idea that she should be treated such because she murdered her child and is looking at a death sentence is ludicrous.

No way were her 'rights' violated in the least and it's insulting for her lawyers to get up in court and use such strong adjectives which in reality describes their own clients despicable behavior towards every person she has ever come into contact. Hopefully, the judge will reign them in and begin to take better control of his court........

According to Jose's latest Motion to Ammend http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19600177/detail.html
on pg. 7 it states that she learned the news from other inmates. I have no doubt that the jail personnel were much more courteous to the model inmate Anthony than her fellow inmates were. I'm sick and tired of Jose's whining. He claims it was cruel and unusual treatment. Well it was cruel and unusual treatment how Casey killed her daughter. As far as the correction officers saying it was unusual, well I'm sure it is unusual for an inmate to be incarcerated for murder before the body was found. I guess inmate Anthony thinks she's special and can demand to see her attorney at her every whim. There must be more to this story if Jose wants to keep it out so bad.

 

[faefrost]

I have a hard time understanding why any of this is an issue. I sure had nothing to do with the murder but my reaction to child's bones discovered only houses away from the Anthony home was very, very different than my reaction to the goings-on at JBP. I bet almost all of us that post here would admit the same. . . So why wouldn't Casey's reactions be different, too?

Don't misunderstand; I think Casey is guilty, guilty, guilty. But I don't think measuring her reaction to the discovery helps prove or disprove her guilt in any way. I think the defense team is on the wrong track by making such a big fuss over this. . . Trying to suppress the tape makes it seem like they think her reaction indicates guilt.

But that's just it. Apparently the SA and prosecutors agree. They do not plan on using this tape at trial. Notice they barely had anything to do with the motion hearing about the video.

the request for the video is coming as a public records request from the press. So why exactly is the defense and JB taking such an almost insane stand on it? What is it hey are hoping to gain exactly? It's no like they are seeking to block a damning piece of evidence, the state already said they weren't planning to use it. In fact losing here against the press would pretty much make it impossible to challenge the tape as evidence, and give the prosecutor almost free reign to use it.

So why exactly are they making such a stink over it?

 

[trixi491]

Does anyone know when we will hear if the media wants to argue for the release? I know they weren't at the hearing. Did Strickland give them a week to make the argument and then wait until the defense is all there for a hearing or am I imagining things?

 

[Gaia713]

But that's just it. Apparently the SA and prosecutors agree. They do not plan on using this tape at trial. Notice they barely had anything to do with the motion hearing about the video.

the request for the video is coming as a public records request from the press. So why exactly is the defense and JB taking such an almost insane stand on it? What is it hey are hoping to gain exactly? It's no like they are seeking to block a damning piece of evidence, the state already said they weren't planning to use it. In fact losing here against the press would pretty much make it impossible to challenge the tape as evidence, and give the prosecutor almost free reign to use it.

So why exactly are they making such a stink over it?

There is something on that tape that Baez does NOT want anyone to see. I have only to conclude that it is something OTHER THAN KC's reaction to the TV since the depositions cover her reaction. The tape would just be the icing on that cake. There's something else on that tape and it's something that Baez is fighting hard to prevent it from being seen.

 

[lin]

The account by Lt. Tammy Uncer in her interview with LE does not comport with Jose Baez's assertions in court and in his motions. Under oath, with fresh recollection, Uncer said that the prisoner sat in front of the t.v. for ten minutes before being taken to the medical conference room to see the psychologist. Ten minutes, not forty. I listened twice to the audio tape of her interview, and have listened to it in the past. Uncer says, "Ten minutes."

JAB misrepresented more than that from the depositions. After failing to elicit the answers he not only sought but practically begged to receive, he resorted to mischaracterizing the responses actually received to be more like his fantasy hoped for responses. Nope, not a mistruth --- just a plain old lie from someone clearly used to lying, not unlike his client and her family.

 

[lin]

According to an attorney for the county, at one of the last motion hearings re: this video, he stated that the protocol was used as with any defendant in jail per this situation.

When there is potential 'bad' news the defendant is brought to medical. Where video is running all the time and she knew it. I think she heard it on the radio and when she got over to medical, put on an act. Of course, not thinking that she shouldn't be so quick to show the world she knew that body was Caylee. Ooops. Again. Now JB's trying to 'fix' the un-fixable.

When will an attorney for the county get up in front of judge Strickland and say enough is enough? CMA is no different nor special than the next criminal in jail and the idea that she should be treated such because she murdered her child and is looking at a death sentence is ludicrous.

No way were her 'rights' violated in the least and it's insulting for her lawyers to get up in court and use such strong adjectives which in reality describes their own clients despicable behavior towards every person she has ever come into contact. Hopefully, the judge will reign them in and begin to take better control of his court........

(emphasis added)

ITA. Well said; well done. Thanks. Every single word.

As for the bolded, I too have wondered if the little actress put on her show about 2 weeks early and the performance that was supposed to "humanize" her and show grief at the loss of Caylee instead condemns her for her guilty knowledge. gmta

Like you, I am sick of "extra special grief" (see sig line) and the special privileges the prisoner and her family seem to think are owed to them. Their sense of entitlement would be disgusting in any circumstance but in the present circumstances, murdering a 2 year old that God entrusted to them and covering up for said murderess, not to mention the constant lying and attempted manipulation of the public as well as the unmitigated gall and greed in demanding large public funding (donations and media $) for their acts, well, disgusting just doesn't seem to cover it. In fact, I don't think any string of words does, including: appalling, repulsive, vile, disgusting, repugnant, offensive, shocking, abhorrent, depraved, evil, foul, obnoxious, despicable, reprehensible, revolting, OBSCENE. I could go on but it still won't put a dent in it. Not even when capitalized, enlarged, bolded and italicized, as you can see.

 

[cecybeans]

Another thing that bothers me about JB's insistence that she was temporarily "denied" counsel. Why would the unidentified remains of a toddler near her home require emergency legal counsel?

Would it be because nobody on the defense had wasted time looking for the real kidnapper but now that a body was found it would suddenly change her case because she was the only viable suspect? Talk about telegraphing guilt!

That's the other reason the SODDI defense will never cut it - the defendant, her family and the defense never had a reasonable alternative based on her imaginanny lies and so had to invent them using her friends. None of which had a nanogram of opportunity, means or motive compared to KC.

Why can't these people do the classy thing and just try to implicate space aliens instead of KC's own acquaintances?

 

[MAMABEAR]

But that's just it. Apparently the SA and prosecutors agree. They do not plan on using this tape at trial. Notice they barely had anything to do with the motion hearing about the video.

the request for the video is coming as a public records request from the press. So why exactly is the defense and JB taking such an almost insane stand on it? What is it hey are hoping to gain exactly? It's no like they are seeking to block a damning piece of evidence, the state already said they weren't planning to use it. In fact losing here against the press would pretty much make it impossible to challenge the tape as evidence, and give the prosecutor almost free reign to use it.

So why exactly are they making such a stink over it?

I think it is because that if he can get this video sealed then he has a better chance to seal the other videos--the ones right after this one or the one of them walking down the hallway---from to infirmary to the lawyer/client room. KC didn't fall apart until she saw JB (in the hallway) and that was before they got into the room where they couldn't be heard---only seen. Maybe he feels like if he hollers loud enough about this video----by the time the rest of what happened comes to light, it won't look so bad.

 

[lin]

Ya' know... If JAB didn't want this video and other docs released, as he so constantly whines... MAYBE HE SHOULDN'T HAVE FOUGHT THE GAG ORDER REQUESTED BY THE STATE!!!

 

[lin]

I'm not an expert on jail procedures - but I watch a lot of TV.

Why was it the attorneys task to inform her of anything? This was a courtesy not a right.

Do lawyers have 24/7 access to their clients, with no regard for procedures or jail schedule?

When a family member of an inmate falls ill or expires, do lawyers inform the inmate or is it the jail staff?

Lawyers are supposed to be for legal purposes. not personal messenger and butler services.

She's in jail, her privacy is just one of the liberties that she has to forgo. She may have to get used to it.
JB has to file lots of time consuming, though baseless (and fruitless) motions, in order to delay the trial as long as possible.

He is hoping that a new "Murderous Mother" will be the focus of attention before trial. He can then mumble and fumble his way to the guilty verdict and fade into obscurity.

Every month the trial is delayed - is an additional month of mortgage paid

(emphasis added)

And not just JAB's mortgage either.

 

[lin]

It seemed to me that protocol was followed. Doctor assesed kC, agreed to medication, She was under observation so as not to hurt herself or someone else, Supervisor called Jail minister for KC to talk with. KC remained silent untill her counsel arrived and chose to express her feelings of Caylee's discovery to JB only. By posted accounts the staff appeared to appropriately handle the situation. It was only in JB mind as he told reporters, that he be with her. I can't quote till we find JB's iinterview and the gentleman thats in charge of the jail. We are now used to oddities in this case. We know kC behavior and statements before jB arrives. It was reported she let down in front of JB with tears. We don't know what kind of tera she wept and considering we have never heard a time kC cried over kC it would appear to me the obvious were tears of frustration and anger darted out at JB. It didn't take but a couple of questions from cA & GA at the jail to make kC react with frustration and anger. I would imagine witnessing where you thre your daughter away would just send kC over the top with her tight clenched hands and mouth. Maybe watching that video with no audio, would be like watching a silent movie and will remind people of the video with her parents. That would be a giveaway to me of her guilt. TM stated it was difficult to observe KC with JB, but she could see a bit of tears, but we haven't heard about kC scrunched up frustraiting facial responses yet. Did anything I just said make any sense?

IIRC, the jail staff didn't see her cry but saw her from the back appearing to sob. So, again, maybe she was being coached to show grief and maybe this was a planned reaction to the remains being found to try to "humanize" her. Wouldn't surprise me if it was anger, frustration or just an act. It would shock me if there was any real grief for anyone but herself.

BTW, just for the record, if I were to ever receive bad news, I'd want a family member there. And I have some great friends who have and do represent me that I love like family. But they're not family. KWIM?

 

[lin]

I'm puzzled by the defense strategy in this. IMO most defense would try to cover this with a story like, KC was becoming upset by her incarceration and reactions and responses from jail personnel, and became upset. Then the defense would try to bury the story and hope it was forgotten.

Instead JB is hammering on this story, like he doesn't want it to be forgotten. Why? He surely can't believe that someone is going to say, "ok she killed her kid, but she was mistreated in jail so we are just going to forget about it"??? So why is he wanting to make sure that no one forgets this story? LOL, even the prosecution is saying they may not use it in trial, and they have offered to bury the tape. But the defense doesn't want to? So why?

JAB is showing his inexperience, immaturity and guilty knowledge of what that tape really represents. Two things come to mind: "Me thinkst thou doth protest too much;" and "But mommy, ________ did/said __________ "

 

[trafficsUP66]

(emphasis added)

ITA. Well said; well done. Thanks. Every single word.

As for the bolded, I too have wondered if the little actress put on her show about 2 weeks early and the performance that was supposed to "humanize" her and show grief at the loss of Caylee instead condemns her for her guilty knowledge. gmta

Like you, I am sick of "extra special grief" (see sig line) and the special privileges the prisoner and her family seem to think are owed to them. Their sense of entitlement would be disgusting in any circumstance but in the present circumstances, murdering a 2 year old that God entrusted to them and covering up for said murderess, not to mention the constant lying and attempted manipulation of the public as well as the unmitigated gall and greed in demanding large public funding (donations and media $) for their acts, well, disgusting just doesn't seem to cover it. In fact, I don't think any string of words does, including: appalling, repulsive, vile, disgusting, repugnant, offensive, shocking, abhorrent, depraved, evil, foul, obnoxious, despicable, reprehensible, revolting, OBSCENE. I could go on but it still won't put a dent in it. Not even when capitalized, enlarged, bolded and italicized, as you can see.

THANK YOU!:clap::clap::clap::clap:

I just can't seem to find the words lately....... But you said them ALL!!!

 

[watcher9]

I'm puzzled by the defense strategy in this. IMO most defense would try to cover this with a story like, KC was becoming upset by her incarceration and reactions and responses from jail personnel, and became upset. Then the defense would try to bury the story and hope it was forgotten.

Instead JB is hammering on this story, like he doesn't want it to be forgotten. Why? He surely can't believe that someone is going to say, "ok she killed her kid, but she was mistreated in jail so we are just going to forget about it"??? So why is he wanting to make sure that no one forgets this story? LOL, even the prosecution is saying they may not use it in trial, and they have offered to bury the tape. But the defense doesn't want to? So why?

Maybe in his backwards sort of way JB wants to use the tape at the trial in order to provide the only "proof" he has to the jury that KC was actually crying over the loss of her daughter??

 

[mysteriew]

There is something on that tape that Baez does NOT want anyone to see. I have only to conclude that it is something OTHER THAN KC's reaction to the TV since the depositions cover her reaction. The tape would just be the icing on that cake. There's something else on that tape and it's something that Baez is fighting hard to prevent it from being seen.

That's just it. The media isn't fighting to get access to the tape. And the prosecution is already talking about not using it. It is JB who keeps bringing it up. And it really puzzles me.

However, I have been thinking about it since my last post. If JB is mainly in this for the "fame" wanting to make a name for himself, and if he is looking for post trial exposure.... maybe a book or a movie out of this. That could be his motivation on this issue. If this was to somehow come under his exclusive control, think of the financial gain he might profit from it.

When I wrote my previous post I had forgotten about the selling of interviews and pictures that has already happened in this case. I am thinking that JB might be trying to make sure that it doesn't become a public property and that somehow he might gain exclusive control over it. Then after the trial, it would be up for sale to the highest bidder.

 

[watcher9]

If something like the tape is suppressed until the trial, would it forever be suppressed to the media or could it be released after the trial is over? What would happen to it if it were not used in the trial?

 

[mysteriew]

I'm not an expert on jail procedures - but I watch a lot of TV.

Why was it the attorneys task to inform her of anything? This was a courtesy not a right.

Do lawyers have 24/7 access to their clients, with no regard for procedures or jail schedule?

When a family member of an inmate falls ill or expires, do lawyers inform the inmate or is it the jail staff?

Lawyers are supposed to be for legal purposes. not personal messenger and butler services.

She's in jail, her privacy is just one of the liberties that she has to forgo. She may have to get used to it.
JB has to file lots of time consuming, though baseless (and fruitless) motions, in order to delay the trial as long as possible.

He is hoping that a new "Murderous Mother" will be the focus of attention before trial. He can then mumble and fumble his way to the guilty verdict and fade into obscurity.

Every month the trial is delayed - is an additional month of mortgage paid

I'm not sure of the attorney's responsibility to inform his client of anything. But LE does have a responsibility. I read something somewhere, where LE has a responsibility to advise family members if they locate remains that could possibly be the remains of their missing family member. Does anyone else remember seeing that? We discussed it right after it was reported that skeletal remains were found behind the A. home.

The policy said that LE was to advise family members at their earliest opportunity. I think it is to prevent family members from learning that their family member may have been found from the media. So LE had the responsibility to advise KC of the findings. IIRC they also advised or attempted to advise GA and CA, but they were on a plane.

What the attorney's responsibility to advise his client of and when he should be advising them, I would guess would be up to the attorney.

Now if LE had just called JB and said "hey we think we might have found Caylee" and not told KC, they would have broken their own policy. And JB would probably have found a complaint for that if he didn't get there before KC heard about it on the radio.

 

[chefmom]

I'm intrigued, chefmom... Do you KNOW there is "another, much more damning, piece of evidence tucked away somewhere in the massive release of info"? Or are you just hoping/guessing there might be? Did I miss something?

Lol! No, Star! I do not KNOW that there is something there, but am guessing that, with all that we have NOT seen, there is, more likely than not, some very damning and convincing evidence in the info JB has. I mean, look at what we have seen. There may still be little tidbits of info in all of that that none of us have noticed or picked up on due to not knowing or completely understanding what it means. Couple that with the fact that there are probably some docs that we will not see by order of the court, and I find it hard to believe that the biggest hurdle that JB has found thus far is this tape of KC's reaction, which may or may not be introduced into evidence. He has much bigger fish to fry. He needs to find this nanny! He needs to find one other human besides KC who can attest to this nannys existance. He needs to do so many things besides whine about this tape. But, for some reason, he continues to exert his energy on keeping it quiet. Makes me wonder why. Makes me want to see it!!!

 

[KeysBreeze]

Lol! No, Star! I do not KNOW that there is something there, but am guessing that, with all that we have NOT seen, there is, more likely than not, some very damning and convincing evidence in the info JB has. I mean, look at what we have seen. There may still be little tidbits of info in all of that that none of us have noticed or picked up on due to not knowing or completely understanding what it means. Couple that with the fact that there are probably some docs that we will not see by order of the court, and I find it hard to believe that the biggest hurdle that JB has found thus far is this tape of KC's reaction, which may or may not be introduced into evidence. He has much bigger fish to fry. He needs to find this nanny! He needs to find one other human besides KC who can attest to this nannys existance. He needs to do so many things besides whine about this tape. But, for some reason, he continues to exert his energy on keeping it quiet. Makes me wonder why. Makes me want to see it!!!

I think Jose thinks the whole enchillada will be tossed because Casey's rights were violated. He's barking up the wrong tree. He's put more effort into sealing this video than anything to date. I want to see it too. I'm nosy that way.