Was the Ramsey house typically a mess?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
I'm curious as why the lock was so high on the door. That is a common lock on old barn doors, so the height stands out to me. Was it always there or added at a later date....Was it childproofing? What was stored in there that was not kid friendly as I can't think of another reason for it to be at the top of the door. How inconvenient!

I forget the source - maybe WS member otg - but my understanding is that the wine cellar was originally the coal cellar, which PR had cemented over. Perhaps that was easier than trying to remove all the coal dust - ? In photos you can still make out bricks or cement blocks in walls. There would have been a coal bin door somewhere on the exterior for coal deliveries. I see no trace of it in available floor plans, i.e., where it used to be, and guess it got bricked up during renovations. So sorry, I have no information about the wooden block. If it was original to the house, I suppose it could have been put there to keep children out of the coal cellar. Could be. The door is of an older style, with an old fashioned vertical door knob. It makes sense that the previous owners would want to secure the door but not want to have to unlock/lock it all the time to get coal.
 
Last edited:
I forget the source - maybe WS member otg - but my understanding is that the wine cellar was originally the coal cellar, which PR had cemented over. Perhaps that was easier than trying to remove all the coal dust - ? In photos you can still make out bricks or cement blocks in walls. There would have been a coal bin door somewhere on the exterior for coal deliveries. I see no trace of it in available floor plans, i.e., where it used to be, and guess it got bricked up during renovations. So sorry, I have no information about the wooden block. If it was original to the house, I suppose it could have been put there to keep children out of the coal cellar. Could be. The door is of an older style, with an old fashioned vertical door knob. It makes sense that the previous owners would want to secure the door but not want to have to unlock/lock it all the time to get coal.

Here's a photo of the back of the wine cellar showing the old brickwork, and a second photo of an old coal cellar with similar bricks.
d3ce6c1db02d8621d4b0ac93b9c50c05--jonbenet-ramsey-case-in-the-basement.jpg

Coal+Cellar+Growth.jpg
 
Burkes BR.
A very interesting video of BRs bedroom with interesting evidence. Does anyone have any other YouTube videos along with Webslueths content that they would post?
This one is a must see if you haven't.

Thanks very much for the video. Good find! It shows more of BR's room than I've ever seen before.

During the week following the murder, police combed the house for sources for the cord and tape found on the body, so I'm assuming they examined the cord attached to the model airplane, as well as the knots. No match has been made public AFAIK, but some evidence has been withheld. Maybe the cord in BR's room matched the StanSport cord on JBR, maybe it didn't. Wish we knew!

While searching for various case-related stuff, I came across this website: Jonbenet Ramsey Wiki
The information is very basic, but it does have some house photos I haven't seen elsewhere or that are harder to find, such as the one below of the empty Coke cans in BR's sink. Why are they there? How did they get there? JR says he helped BR get ready for bed on the night of the 25th. Were the cans already there? Did they both just ignore them at tooth brushing time? Maybe they each had a Coke downstairs, took them upstairs to finish, and JR left them in the sink rather than make another trip downstairs and back? BR says he got up after his parents went to bed and went downstairs to play with his new toys. Are the two cans evidence that he was up for a longer period of time than he has indicated? Was JBR up, too? Was one of the sodas hers?

800px-Burkebathroom2.jpg


In any case, the video helps answer GT's original question about whether BR's room was typically as messy as the rest of the house, and whether it looked suspiciously tidied up on the morning of the 26th. To me, the bed made by Fleet White looks to be a little island of tidiness amidst the usual clutter.
 
Oh, I definitely agree.....that is my opinion too, that they had help. And I too hope that one day, the truth comes out about who was involved and what was done to help cover up what happened. And that whomever was involved faces some accountability.
Some days I think we are getting close and that's why JR has upped his recent campaign. It is not RDI anymore. It is WHICH RDI.
It is getting more and more difficult for JR to spin the facts. I think someone is whispering in his ear that he better keep talking before the ship goes down with the whole dirty lot of co- conspirators.
It will be one hell of a show.
 
Is the forum opposed to directing to content creators on YouTube. I have zero agenda to promote views but like the video posted, there is good content that people may not have seen where theories aren't made just facts analyzed. These are the types of content that keep the Ramsey bots very busy because they are very good at highlighting the obsurd.
 
Some days I think we are getting close and that's why JR has upped his recent campaign. It is not RDI anymore. It is WHICH RDI.
It is getting more and more difficult for JR to spin the facts. I think someone is whispering in his ear that he better keep talking before the ship goes down with the whole dirty lot of co- conspirators.
It will be one hell of a show.
That's an interesting thought as to why JR has been vocal lately. And I do agree the question is which RDI?

I often wonder why might come to light after JR is no longer of this earth. It's possible that JAR will take up the torch, although it's hard to say how important it will be to him at that point. BR remains quiet as usual, he got a settlement from his lawsuit against CBS, which my guess is JR encouraged him to file. BR has been happy to just live his life quietly and have little to no involvement in JR's efforts. It feels like he wants very much to put all of that behind him, and I certainly can understand that.

I feel very strongly that the Boulder PD knows pretty much what happened and who did it. There must be a reason why they are still holding onto evidence and not releasing it to the public. And I think it's probably because it would implicate some heavy hitters who I believe were involved in a cover up. The R's reportedly spent most of their fortune on all the lawyers, investigators, etc., and the business was sold / traded and JR was out of a job. He did go to work for another computer company after having moved back to Atlanta, but certainly did not have the status that he once did, and apparently not the income either. I have no idea what his financial status is now, or whether he could afford an expensive lawsuit if certain information became public. The threat is probably still there though, as long as he is alive.
 
Is the forum opposed to directing to content creators on YouTube. I have zero agenda to promote views but like the video posted, there is good content that people may not have seen where theories aren't made just facts analyzed. These are the types of content that keep the Ramsey bots very busy because they are very good at highlighting the obsurd.

The forum welcomes good media content. In the yellow section at the top of the main page you'll see a pinned thread named Media Links Only (i.e., for informational purposes only; no discussion). If you have an article or a video to post, you just need to check to make sure it's not a duplicate.

For higher visibility and discussion, of course start a regular thread or include your item in an ongoing discussion, as you did here. I found the video extremely interesting.

Just my 2 cents: Sometimes there's an older thread that addresses your topic or includes the video you have in mind. You can do a cursory check using the Search function. It can be valuable to repost the video on, and add your comment to, the existing thread. Older threads often contain insights and information that are valuable to bring to light again, especially if they don't have a thread of their own. I for one have learned so much lore here from incidental comments made by long term members/case followers.
 
That's an interesting thought as to why JR has been vocal lately. And I do agree the question is which RDI?

I often wonder why might come to light after JR is no longer of this earth. It's possible that JAR will take up the torch, although it's hard to say how important it will be to him at that point. BR remains quiet as usual, he got a settlement from his lawsuit against CBS, which my guess is JR encouraged him to file. BR has been happy to just live his life quietly and have little to no involvement in JR's efforts. It feels like he wants very much to put all of that behind him, and I certainly can understand that.

I feel very strongly that the Boulder PD knows pretty much what happened and who did it. There must be a reason why they are still holding onto evidence and not releasing it to the public. And I think it's probably because it would implicate some heavy hitters who I believe were involved in a cover up. The R's reportedly spent most of their fortune on all the lawyers, investigators, etc., and the business was sold / traded and JR was out of a job. He did go to work for another computer company after having moved back to Atlanta, but certainly did not have the status that he once did, and apparently not the income either. I have no idea what his financial status is now, or whether he could afford an expensive lawsuit if certain information became public. The threat is probably still there though, as long as he is alive.
100 % on the mark.
I'll will add, how much BR got from his lawsuit is unknown. If it was settled out of court, it could have been a retraction, an apology, and a handshake.
;) Has a figure ever been released?
 
100 % on the mark.
I'll will add, how much BR got from his lawsuit is unknown. If it was settled out of court, it could have been a retraction, an apology, and a handshake.
;) Has a figure ever been released?
From what I could find, no. The settlement amount has not been disclosed, although was described as being "amicable". CBS attorneys have never commented once a settlement was agreed upon. I am also unaware of any public apology or retraction being made, which is interesting. And the program is still available to be watched. Kind of makes you wonder what the point of the lawsuit was.
 
Thank you for the explanation. That makes good sense.

Just FYI - I've been going through JR interviews on YouTube, looking for a couple of details. In a segment of the Paula Woodward interview posted by WS member Cottonstar, JR confirms that the wine cellar had originally been the coal cellar.
 
Just FYI - I've been going through JR interviews on YouTube, looking for a couple of details. In a segment of the Paula Woodward interview posted by WS member Cottonstar, JR confirms that the wine cellar had originally been the coal cellar.
Thank you Meara.
I just made the connection that Cottonstar is the content creator I posted regarding BRs bedroom. I've now fallen down a rabbit hole looking for all his previous posts. It's gonna be a late night:eek:
 

After watching a video from True Crime Rocket Science, he discusses BR getting a Nintendo 64. In 98 my son was 13. He had several Nintendos. One of the most popular games at the time was Mortal Kombat. It was a fighting game to which the winner is instructed to
" Finish him!"Or "Finish her!"
Meaning inflict the death blow.
I remember the kids play fighting and taking on the characters from the game. Nothing out of control, mostly fake karate moves and acting the parts.
Could BR been influenced by the violence of the game? Assuming he may have had it. These games were pretty new. I'm not sure when they started rating them or if the violence was taken serious as this was new territory for parents.
 
Thank you Meara.
I just made the connection that Cottonstar is the content creator I posted regarding BRs bedroom. I've now fallen down a rabbit hole looking for all his previous posts. It's gonna be a late night:eek:

Sounds like you're finding some rabbits!

In #17 on this thread by Cottonstar, John Ramsey: Knots, Knowledge, and Know-how., he writes:

In addition to the airplane wallpaper plastered on the walls of his bedroom, he showed off one of his many model airplanes by hanging it from the ceiling. This was the same model airplane that had white camping cord, tied in knots, hanging from it- shown in the crime scene photographs taken during the multiple-day processing of the house for evidence.


It doesn't sound like it matched the StanSport utility cord used in the ligatures. Thanks for bumping up the John Ramsey: Knots, Knowledge, and Know-how thread.
 
You failed to answer my logic based questions as they would apply to the Ramseys not looking hard enough in their own home to find their missing child and again point the finger at LEs mistake. I am going to point back to why the Ramseys didn't look in every room of their own home to find their daughter. One glaring possibility is they knew where she was the whole time and it was a rouse. If you don't believe the Ramseys did it, then you need to provide a reasonable answer as to why they failed to look hard enough to find her in their home. As Meara stated in an earlier post, the house holds many answers. I am not asking why they didn't find her, say in a forest or in a lake, but in their home. I can't come up with one single reason. Can others please provide me with logical reasons why someone would not check every room of their house for a missing child. Answers like they were distraught will be ignored.
I spoke about this on page 4 (so no point repeating myself). I cannot help that you do not like it. I suggest finding interviews of JR & PR to get your answer. I don't know what was going on in their heads and which rooms they had or had not searched etc.
Bill McReynolds was a 67 year old sweet man who had heart surgery a mere 4 months before the murder. He had not fully recovered and was frail. The R’s threw EVERYONE under the bus with no real thought as to plausibility. It literally broke his heart and he never got it over JBR’s death and the fact that he was considered a suspect. His life was never the same. He simply was not physically capable.

Agree about having to make ridiculous concessions. That’s what high priced lawyers with political connections will get you. Rigged much? The police are not to be blamed for that, their hands were tied.

A kidnapping presumes the victim is being held elsewhere. So why is it only the police’s responsibility to search the house? Shouldn’t the parents have a responsibility too? After all, they’re the ones that knew the ins and outs of the house the best. Why did they not turn the house up and down looking? I know I would if it were my child. They barely looked at all.

The wood fire was from the paint brush handle. Identified.

Lou Smit climbed through the window himself and recorded it. Yes it was possible. But other factors were in play, like the cobwebs remaining undisturbed and no debris dragged into the room. You can see how LS’s entire body encompasses the window frame even with the window wide open. No way an adult male climbed in without bringing leaves, debris and spider web with him.
Again, like removing unnecessary person's (family and friends) from the house aka the crime scene, it ought to be basic police work to check behind all doors, especially of rooms. So my response is: for the simple fact of it being their duty.
There was said to be debris from outside in the room/s. So who is right actually?
The police on the morning of Dec. 26th were not primarily tasked with finding JBR. Their job was to assess the scene, gather information/evidence/clues about the reported kidnapping, coordinate with the FBI, set up the apparatus to tape and trace the expected phone call, and request the canine search unit on stand-by.

The wine cellar door was secured by a rotating wooden block at the top.
d43ce31879a8f358e76f57e7e1173fb2--ramsey-case-room-doors.jpg

The first officer to see it was Off. Reichenbach. His assignment was to locate the places where a kidnapper could have exited the house with JBR. Seeing the block in place on the door, he rightly concluded that this was not the exit point and therefore did not waste time on it. Off. French was the first to inspect the basement. I think he should have opened the door. He thinks so, too, and blames himself for the delay in finding JBR's body. It troubled him deeply for years.

Here are two views of the basement window, showing that it could not be opened fully because it was blocked by an adjacent ceiling beam.
JonBent-Death-Scene.jpg

jonbenet-ramsey-evidence.jpg



Logical fallacy: Personal Incredulity. Yes, it's hard to believe that either parent could have treated JBR so brutally. However, incredulity has no bearing on probability. It's a logical fallacy to conclude that, because it's hard to grasp how a loving parent could kill her horrifically, it's less likely to be true. In fact, the majority of child murder victims JBR's age and younger are killed by a parent. The FBI's Ron Walker understood this as soon as he got the supposed kidnapping case. Leaving aside the parents' wealth, social position, education, political influence, and appearance of being good parents, and any personal feelings, he may have had, he said, "You're gonna find a body."

I think you might benefit from learning more about the basic facts of the case. In addition to the books by Steve Thomas, Schiller, and Kolar, there are two excellent, well organized online sources:


Because I was going to correct myself about it, I will say first: I did find out later (not because of Websleuths) that the ceiling structure obstructed full opening of the basement window.
Again, people are excusing why police weren't more thorough. "Assess the scene" and "gather information" one would think encompasses checking for her presence as standard. To say otherwise excuses it from being done in future. Which the R case shows is not the correct action to take. Comes back to a procedural thing.
There is no logical fallacy in applying common sense which I see LS argue there is a lack of concerning a parental strangulation-cover-up. There is nothing in the R's background and past behaviour to indicate they could strangle the life out of their daughter as a means of covering up. So much simpler to take JB to hospital and call it an accident.
Unless there is something none of us know like JR is a psychopath or PR a devil worshipper.
If there was a cover up, it doesn't seem likely it played out via a parent finishing her off, on the face of it.
Sounded weird she was found in a "locked" cellar. That she was in there to begin with was the first odd thing looking at the basement layout. A latch above the door is not something I think is easily seen/known by an outsider. Is this common to similar homes in the area? Did the door have another lock and which lock was in use? Someone else said officer R felt resistance at the door (was it because of the wooden block?). Again, this is conflicting information to yours. Could it be to stop BR getting to where JB was.
Have you read the Ramseys book or others that think it's an intruder as well?
 
Last edited:

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
171
Guests online
1,787
Total visitors
1,958

Forum statistics

Threads
599,488
Messages
18,095,909
Members
230,862
Latest member
jusslikeme
Back
Top