Was Trayvon Martin involved in a Fight Video?

Discussion in 'George Zimmerman Trial/Trayvon Martin' started by ariesgodofwar, May 22, 2012.

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  1. ariesgodofwar

    ariesgodofwar New Member

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    There has been much speculation as to whether or not the various videos from YouTube and elsewhere of what is claimed to be Trayvon Martin both refereeing as well as fighting on the internet, are actually him or not, and if so, how could they play into the ultimate adjudication of the case, if at all.

    According to the Palm Beach Post: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/c...-encouraging-others-to-fight-was-2365042.html

     
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  3. MayHaven

    MayHaven Former Member

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    Not a chance.
    1) The youtube video was proven to not be him. No I don't have a link because it was removed

    2) There was another video of kids boxing (with boxing gloves on)...and if anyone believes either of those kids are Trayvon, they need new glasses.

    <Modsnip>
     
  4. ariesgodofwar

    ariesgodofwar New Member

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    Proven not to be him? The link above cites a denial by Jahvaris Fulton and Benjamin Crump, but I have seen no definitive proof, and in fact, have been involved in research which undeniably concluded quite the contrary. Can you please point me to where this was proven?

    As for Victim's Rights, the accused has made an accusation that he was indeed attacked, ask such, if Trayvon was engaged in such activities, this could be exculpatory evidence, or introduce reasonable doubt if there was a propensity for physical violence.
     
  5. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    Neither of you can link your points of view at this time- so please leave it as your opinions.
    To everyone-Please debate your opinions on this information but keep it civil.
    Only warning, thanks.
     
  6. IzzyBlanche

    IzzyBlanche New Member

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    <modsnip>

    I don't see the term "Fight Club" used in that link, by the way. So a logical analogy would be "video of teens riding bicycles" = "was one of those teens involved in BMX Motocross."

    <modsnip>
     
  7. elementary

    elementary No More Excuses

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    This tells us nothing. Where and what is your proof? And who will be able to verify that your proof is kosher?
     
  8. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    The OP is linked to discussion of an MSM article and the article says it is not him in the title.

    >>Video showing teen encouraging others to fight was not Trayvon Martin, brother says

    snip
    Newly obtained video recorded before Martin's death shows the teenager encouraging others to fight. However, Martin's brother said Trayvon is not in the video.
    And the Martin family lawyer said the video is just another attack on Martin&#8217;s character.
    <<
     
  9. elementary

    elementary No More Excuses

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    Okay, I'm confused here. What is the information? What are the facts?
    Are we debating something real or just indulging in total speculation about a victim and a minor? Is this just about rumours? I have no idea what this fight club thing is.
     
  10. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    Treat the topic with as much importance as you give it.
    Personally I don;t give it any weight at this point. Doesn't mean others don't want to discuss the article from an MSM link.

    Is it him? Does it matter if it is? Is it not him? Is this an unfair article? discuss it if you are so inclined.
    I personally am not a fan of the topic so I probably won't discuss it- so decide for yourselves if you want to keep bumping it with comments or not click on it.
     
  11. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    I don't see anything on the link??????
     
  12. mikeysmommom

    mikeysmommom "A grandchild fills a space in your heart that you

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    I saw one of the films and not only was it trayvon IMO or it was his twin named the same name,he also was called by name.

    ETA It was taken down as soon as it came out it was online.They have been erasing anything that makes him look like a **** or just like a 17 yr old IMO.If there is nothing to hide why hide it?Any of TM past will be found out and will be in the courtroom.At trial GZ lawyer will bring out what ever kid of kid TM was,that happens in court everyday.If in fact TM had scars on his hands and if they can prove he fought GZ lawyer has a right to bring it out in court.Whether we agree with it or not in a case like this one it does matter JMO.
     
  13. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    So the reason for there being no link is that the video is of minors other than TM and we're not suppose to engage in that type of sleuthing???? If we can't verify it why is it an issue when TM isn't on trial, well, as far as the State of Florida is concerned. jmo
     
  14. ariesgodofwar

    ariesgodofwar New Member

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    As far as I recall, they did initially post the video to the stories (and no I did not think to take a screenshot, but not sure it would matter in this case), and they were then removed and replaced with the stock content once the video was removed from the original hosting service on the Internet.

    Note the subject of the video does not actually match the Title of the article. Both title and video embedded are about the case, but typically, editorial guidelines at most publications for Online Media would require that if you are talking about a subject, in this case a video, (especially one which the situation is "Is this or isn't this?" such to the extent you have to ask the question from the family, thus not readily apparent), that you would include the video, or specifically state why you are not (Graphic content, Trademark Infringement, etc.) Otherwise, your piece is as relevant as a piece titled "Beautiful Sunset over Galveston Bay witnessed last night" and then instead of a video or static photo of the Beautiful Sunset referred to in your article, you just post a picture of a Boat in the Bay, in the middle of the daytime (no sunset). Any reader would then say "Why did you tell me about a beautiful sunset and then not show me? I would like to see it, especially if I would think it is beautiful as well."

    Coincidentally, the video was not an issue for the Internet Host from July 2011 when it was originally posted to the very day (almost an entire year afterwards) that the research indicating the irrefutable links to the original video were posted by a few blogs, one of which is considered a "major" blog. Could this be just coincidence? Could be, but personally, I doubt it.

    As a result of that information that was published, the Palm Beach Post and WFTV responded to the information with the linked article. I assume that they believe there was at least compelling evidence enough to ask the question, because if it was obvious that it was not him, it would be like a reporter asking a man walking his German Shepard, if it was a Boston Terrier. Why did they do this? IMO, it is because they know that it will likely come into evidence, and they wanted to get ahead of it.

    As for your statement about his height being 5'11", I have seen this mentioned many times and perhaps best discussed on another thread, but I thought the same thing, especially after seeing the 7-11 Video and some of the pictures posted of him. I was thinking that either the ME was wrong, or that people in Sanford, Fl appear to be abnormally short in stature compared to him.

    Upon researching, I believe (IMO) the reason why his family initially claimed he was 6'2-6'3 and the ME claimed he was 71 inches (5'11), is because by the time the ME took the measurement, full rigor mortis had occurred, which makes it impossible to completely straighten the spine to get the same measurement as if one was alive and standing up. I would suggest the family's statement is more accurate as a result, but the easy way to confirm this, and they will likely come into evidence at some point I would guess, would be to obtain Trayvon's medical records. He played Football, and unless they do something strange in Florida, all programs I know of, be they "Pewee", JFL, or High School, all require players to have an annual physical and be medically cleared, so there should then obviously be a height measurement on his chart I would think.
     
  15. beach

    beach Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Okay, here is the deal.

    This video did exist at one time and the article does not refute that.

    Per Crump's remarks snipped
    Trayvon's brother's remarks snipped
    We are aware that his brother is denying it is Trayvon, however...keep in mind, people are denying a multitude of things attributed to Zimmerman too. Yet, we freely permit speculation about the credibility of those things. That speculation works both ways.

    No one here is denying that Trayvon's death is a horrible, tragedy. However, it is obvious from the docs that have been released there was a physical altercation before Zimmerman fired the gun that killed Trayvon. GZ has never once denied shooting Trayvon. Though not formally claimed in court, it is OBVIOUS the defense is going to claim this is a case of self-defense.

    The owners have known about this information for many weeks. It has been given it very careful consideration. They have spent hours carefully verifying the information. Rest assured, we have not permitted FAR more info than we are allowing here.

    That said, this information is considered to be relevant as to the claims made by GZ - that he was attacked first. There is a huge point of debate over who initiated the physical altercation that eventually led to the shooting death of Trayvon. If Trayvon participated in fighting for whatever reason - be it sport or otherwise - that is relevant.

    As to the complaints that TM is a minor - let's be honest here. Barely considered a minor, per the law. 17 yrs. old. We are not talking about a 12, 14 or even 15 yr. old sheltered minor kid here. He had plenty of life experiences here as the evidence indicates. It is dishonest to pretend otherwise OTOH, no one is insinutating that Trayvon was a bad, incorrigble teen who was predisposed to be anything less than a fine adult. No one is insinuating that he deserved to die at the young age of 17. He was simply a teen who was stumbling to find his way through....like almost all teens. By not permitting members to understand who Trayvon was by considering all of his qualities in a truthful light, would not be honest. He was an honor roll student too. Trayvon had a lot of good qualities. None of us are perfect and I guarantee none of us were close to perfect when we were 17 yrs. old. It is what it is and this discussion is permitted.



    THAT ALL SAID - We understand that this topic will offend many here. Understandable. HOWEVER, if you fall into that category, I suggest you just ignore the discussion and don't even click on this thread.

    Because what is NOT going to be tolerated are posts expressing their disgust or complaints about the discussion even being permitted here. Feel free to email the owners with those points of view. Any remarks like that posted here will result in a TO. No one is going to be permitted to derail a discussion for those who are interested in the topic.


    DO NOT quote and/or respond to this post. It is not up for debate on this thread. Any questions need to be submitted via PM, or if you prefer, email the owners.
     
  16. KateNY

    KateNY Perpetual Lurker

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    Gotta admit I was curious and nosed around. The video is still out there. I can't tell anything from it.

    Had only heard about Fight Clubs...seems to be kinda like no-holds-barred- boxing?

    Here's an article that discusses these clubs, for anyone else, like me...who had no clue..

    Apparently not illegal, but seems like LE tho is trying to clamp down on those involving minors


    hope it's ok to post, not related to this case
    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-05-29-fight-club_x.htm
     
  17. Karmady

    Karmady Former Member

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    I'd seen a still from it before, but didn't watch. And I found it just now, too. Although practically the whole first page of links have been scrubbed. His name is very clearly heard (not sure how common Trayvon is, though), and I believe he can be seen in the later part. While it's hard for me to watch now, when I think about it it's absolutely no different than the after-school fights peeps had when I was in hs. Although if it is a *fight-club* type thing, I guess they are not as spontaneous??
     
  18. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    I was referring to the other minors in the video. Could it have been pulled because of the others? TM is deceased so a video would not affect him but the other's who were in the video, if they were minors, it might. Plus the parents may not be too happy they are being involved. I'm just wondering why it was removed???? Anyone know? jmo
     
  19. ariesgodofwar

    ariesgodofwar New Member

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    No, the service that hosted it merely just said a "ToS Violation" in the error message. That said, there apparently was no ToS violation for the last year where it remained without issue. This particular service has hundreds of thousands of videos featuring minors engaged in criminal acts which are in many cases used as evidence in prosecutions (for those dumb enough to video themselves committing and posting on the Internet for all to see, as if Law Enforcement does not have access to the Internet.)

    As for the minors specifically, I am not really sure the video was of the quality to identify any of them with any real specificity. The only name spoken the entire time, was Trayvon's, though there were 2 male names in a X vs Y format as the video title. That said, I was 18 for a while when I was in High School (though I emancipated at 17, but that is neither here nor there), this video obviously happened at the High School, so how is it that we know that all, or even some are necessarily minors? I guess I am just not sure what participants possibly being minors engaged in criminal activity which is relevant to the claims the defendant is making, has to do with the video being a ToS violation, or why it is an issue. I must be missing something here I guess....
     
  20. vlpate

    vlpate Sleuther with a porpoise

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    Probably for the same reason the twitter accounts were removed, they reflected upon Martin badly.
     
  21. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    MSM has no problem reporting other informationi that "reflected badly" on TM. Why would this video be different? Unless they were afraid of a lawsuit from parents of the other boys involved? I do think boys fight (girls, too for that matter). They did when I was a teen so I don't think much has changed. And people use to pay big buck-a-roni's to sit front and center during a boxing match. jmo
     
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