"We Didn't Mean for This to Happen"

[rashomon]

He thought she had had a great childhood.

I don't think he did. SteveThomas points out many times in his book how that poor child was manipulated. He mentions e. g. one episode when JonBenet felt cold in a restaurant where the family had gone after the pageant, and Patsy did not allow her to put on a jacket, telling her "You're still on show".
On the last page of his book, Steve Thomas thinks about what JonBenet could have been, but what she was never allowed to be: a child having a real childhood.
And he was of the opinion that JB would eventually have rejected the plastic Barbie doll lifestyle later.
I have the impression that Steve cared more about the victim JonBenet than her parents did.

 

[tipper]

I don't think he did. SteveThomas points out many times in his book how that poor child was manipulated. He mentions e. g. one episode when JonBenet felt cold in a restaurant where the family had gone after the pageant, and Patsy did not allow her to put on a jacket, telling her "You're still on show".
On the last page of his book, Steve Thomas thinks about what JonBenet could have been, but what she was never allowed to be: a child having a real childhood.
And he was of the opinion that JB would eventually have rejected the plastic Barbie doll lifestyle later.
I have the impression that Steve cared more about the victim JonBenet than her parents did.

ST book, p. 4.

"... Charlevoix, Michigan where JonBenet loved to swim(sic) on the tire at the bottom of the hill, swim in the lake, go rollerblading and biking, and be a tomboy who didn't care about getting dirt under her fingernails."
[...]
After a thorough "pageant scrub" to clean up dirty knees and elbows, a good hair wash, and a French manicure for those dirty nails."

ST book, p. 5.

"She was a free spirit."

ST book, p. 212-13.
"I leaned against the door and visualized it as it was last Christmas. The dresser in the corner, the beautiful tree with angel onaments, the portrait with the innocent smile, kid stuff all over the floor What a life she would have had."

 

[rashomon]

ST book, p. 4.

"... Charlevoix, Michigan where JonBenet loved to swim(sic) on the tire at the bottom of the hill, swim in the lake, go rollerblading and biking, and be a tomboy who didn't care about getting dirt under her fingernails."
[...]
After a thorough "pageant scrub" to clean up dirty knees and elbows, a good hair wash, and a French manicure for those dirty nails."

ST book, p. 5.

"She was a free spirit."

ST book, p. 212-13.
"I leaned against the door and visualized it as it was last Christmas. The dresser in the corner, the beautiful tree with angel onaments, the portrait with the innocent smile, kid stuff all over the floor What a life she would have had."

I think Steve used these scenes to contrast what JB really loved to do as a child with her artificial existence as a member of the pageant circus which consumed so much of her time.
And that 'free spirit' which JB had could have been the reason why she finally opposed her mother's overbearing personality.

Presenting your child as Marilyn Monroe in a pageant does not point to a wonderful childhood, it points to a terrible childhood. Imo this is a form of sexual abuse. 'Death of innocence' indeed.

 

[tipper]

I think Steve used these scenes to contrast what JB really loved to do as a child with her artificial existence as a member of the pageant circus which consumed so much of her time.
And that 'free spirit' which JB had could have been the reason why she finally opposed her mother's overbearing personality.

Presenting your child as Marilyn Monroe in a pageant does not point to a wonderful childhood, it points to a terrible childhood. Imo this is a form of sexual abuse.

But the point is JonBenet did do all those perfectly normal childhood things. She wasn't "robbed of her childhood" she participated fully. She wanted to do the pageants and enjoyed them. I don't see that they took up any more time than any number of other (socially acceptable) kids activities that require preparation, e.g horseshows, gymnastics, and karate to name a few. In addition the pageants took a backseat to family activities. I don't think that would be true if Patsy was the rabid stage mother you are trying to paint her.

Playing dressup, whether it's Marilyn Monroe or Cinderella at the Ball, is fun for little girls. I expect JonBenet loved the costumes.

Do you think all the mothers whose kids are in pageants should be arrested for sexual abuse? Or just Patsy?

 

[rashomon]

But the point is JonBenet did do all those perfectly normal childhood things. She wasn't "robbed of her childhood" she participated fully. She wanted to do the pageants and enjoyed them. I don't see that they took up any more time than any number of other (socially acceptable) kids activities that require preparation, e.g horseshows, gymnastics, and karate to name a few. In addition the pageants took a backseat to family activities. I don't think that would be true if Patsy was the rabid stage mother you are trying to paint her.

Playing dressup, whether it's Marilyn Monroe or Cinderella at the Ball, is fun for little girls. I expect JonBenet loved the costumes.

There's a big difference between dressing up as Cinderella and dressing up as Marilyn Monroe. Being dressed like Marilyn Monroe and having to act seductively because that's what the pageant audience wants to see has NOTHING to do with little girls' innocent joy in dressing up as princesses, etc.
Steve Thomas says he doubts that JB even knew who Marilyn Monroe was. But Patsy's mother knew who MM was: a sex symbol. In that pageant btw, Patsy came dressed as Marilyn Monroe too. Sick.

And I doubt that the pageants took a backseat to family activities. Steve Thomas visited quite a few families whose daughters regularly took part in pageants, and got the impression that all what counted in those families' lives were those pageants. Patsy's mother Nedra was obsessed with them too, and was she who said children have to enter pageants at the age of four because : "if you don't start them young, they'll fall miserably behind."

Do you think all the mothers whose kids are in pageants should be arrested for sexual abuse? Or just Patsy?

Those pageants where children are dressed up like little Lolitas in clothes which look as if they are from a *advertiser censored* shop should be forbidden, for imo this is sexually abusing the children.

 

[tipper]

There's a big difference between dressing up as Cinderella and dressing up as Marilyn Monroe. Being dressed like Marilyn Monroe and having to act seductively because that's what the pageant audience wants to see has NOTHING to do with little girls' innocent joy in dressing up as princesses, etc..

In one of her movies Shirley Temple dressed as Marlene Dietrich and Mae West. Would you be happier if she had dressed as one of them or Clara Bow or Judy Garland?

Steve Thomas says he doubts that JB even knew who Marilyn Monroe was. But Patsy's mother knew who MM was: a sex symbol. In that pageant btw, Patsy came dressed as Marilyn Monroe too. Sick..

How does he know? JonBenet was into old Shirley Temple movies and it would not surprise me at all if she also watched Monroe movies too. Gentlemen Prefer Blondes would probably have appealed to her. As I recall, the particular event we are discussing was a mother/daughter event and they were to dress as someone from Hollywood.

And I doubt that the pageants took a backseat to family activities. Steve Thomas visited quite a few families whose daughters regularly took part in pageants, and got the impression that all what counted in those families' lives were those pageants. Patsy's mother Nedra was obsessed with them too, and was she who said children have to enter pageants at the age of four because : "if you don't start them young, they'll fall miserably behind.".

You do know she only did something like 12 or 13 pageants in all? That's over a two and a half year span. I don't know if you've read PMPT yet but in it you will find a time when a pageant conflicted with a family outing and the family outing took precedence. As far as Thomas visiting families I expect you can find all types just as you can in sports families. I'm sure he didn't highlight the ones who had a balanced view of them. I could go out an do research on police attitudes. From that I could tell you Thomas was corrupt because the cops I researched were corrupt. Nedra was generally considered a character. Patsy and Pam didn't start in pageants until they were teenagers so clearly Nedra knows one doesn't have to start young to avoid falling miserably behind

Those pageants where children are dressed up like little Lolitas in clothes which look as if they are from a *advertiser censored* shop should be forbidden, for imo this is sexually abusing the children.

If those pageant photos and videos had been as inherently sexy as you seem to think they are it wouldn't have been necessary to run them in slo-mo or doctor the photos to make her look more heavily made-up.

Although pageants aren't my cup of tea I don't think they are inherently evil. I guess Lolita is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[narlacat]

Marilyn Munroe was all about SEX.
Yes I think she should have come dressed as someone else, someone more appropiate for a 5 year old to be imitating.

From what I have read, Nedra pushed JonBenét into pageantry, there was no getting out of that even if she wanted to, which of course she didn't because she wanted to be like her Mum....
I think JonBenét like the pageants and liked peforming... alot of little girls like to sing and dance.
But the outfits her mother had made for her, were so innappropiate.
The make up, the bleaching of the hair....contacts to change her eye colour....all that was not fair on a 5 year old.

<<If those pageant photos and videos had been as inherently sexy as you seem to think they are it wouldn't have been necessary to run them in slo-mo or doctor the photos to make her look more heavily made-up>>

Maybe that was the case...the doctoring of the videos but that still doesn't take away the fact that she did wear too much make up and she did know provocative moves at the ripe old of 5....

The message from Patsy recieved by JonBenét was......your worth is wrapped up in your looks!
By bleaching her hair the message JonBenét recieved from Patsy was....you are not good enough just being you, you must be prettier!!
Disgraceful

 

[tipper]

Contacts to change her eye color? Do you have a source?

 

[narlacat]

No source Tipper, could be a rumour, I'm not sure.
I choose to believe it because I wouldn't put anything past Patsy.
Her track record on being innappropiate where her daughter was concerned is enough for me to believe it.

 

[narlacat]

http://www.maketoast.com/photos/6.html

http://www.maketoast.com/photos/newtabrunjonbenet.html


I think JonBenét looks ridiculous in these pics.

 

[capps]

http://www.maketoast.com/photos/6.html

http://www.maketoast.com/photos/newtabrunjonbenet.html


I think JonBenét looks ridiculous in these pics.

Yeah ... I think so too. But it still doesn't make Patsy a murderer.

 

[tipper]

No source Tipper, could be a rumour, I'm not sure.
I choose to believe it because I wouldn't put anything past Patsy.
Her track record on being innappropiate where her daughter was concerned is enough for me to believe it.

Then you might be interested in this link...
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:ud9AURnUVWQJ:websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D27183%26goto%3Dnextnewest+jonbenet+contact+lenses&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5

 

[narlacat]

Yeah ... I think so too. But it still doesn't make Patsy a murderer.

I didn't say it did.

 

[narlacat]

Then you might be interested in this link...
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:ud9AURnUVWQJ:websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D27183%26goto%3Dnextnewest+jonbenet+contact+lenses&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5

Maybe that's where I got it from.
Seems it was just a rumour.

 

[Paradox]

How would Patsy know to dress JonBenet up as MM? She really wasn't into movies all that much.

 

[Paradox]

But the point is JonBenet did do all those perfectly normal childhood things. She wasn't "robbed of her childhood" she participated fully. She wanted to do the pageants and enjoyed them. I don't see that they took up any more time than any number of other (socially acceptable) kids activities that require preparation, e.g horseshows, gymnastics, and karate to name a few. In addition the pageants took a backseat to family activities. I don't think that would be true if Patsy was the rabid stage mother you are trying to paint her.

Playing dressup, whether it's Marilyn Monroe or Cinderella at the Ball, is fun for little girls. I expect JonBenet loved the costumes.

Do you think all the mothers whose kids are in pageants should be arrested for sexual abuse? Or just Patsy?

Can anyone be arrested for being a hyperbolic apologist?

 

[narlacat]

How would Patsy know to dress JonBenet up as MM? She really wasn't into movies all that much.

What do you mean?

 

[rashomon]

How would Patsy know to dress JonBenet up as MM? She really wasn't into movies all that much.

Now who of Patsy's age wouldn't know who Marilyn Monroe was?

Tipper: if JonBenet really was allowed to watch the movie 'Gentlemen prefer blondes' at her age, this was way too early. Just like so many other things she had to do way too early: perform seductively at those pageants for example, if not something far more sinister, for in all probability she had also been sexually abused.

 

[Paradox]

John responded to the fact that the rn had so many lines from movies by saying "we don't really watch all that many movies". (paraphrased) So I was being sarcastic.

The two of them dressed alike for a pageant brings up the "wherever we go, whatever we do, we're gonna go through it together ..." line from that song that is used as the dedication in DOI.

We can then extrapolate and see Patsy herself with JonBenet, in spirit, in all those other garrish costumes, even though Patsy didn't dress like her for all of them. Those costumes were Patsy expressing herself, her repressed self.

 

[sharpar]

Its also an excellent example of Patsy's not honoring the boundaries between herself and her daughter. JB was not an extension of herself but a whole SEPARATE other person. Mothers who cant distinguish those boundaries often react in harsh ways when the daughter asserts her own personality.