Were there floor jacks in the Ramsey basement?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by CharlieBrown, Mar 14, 2009.

  1. CharlieBrown

    CharlieBrown New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    For those of you who don't know, floor jacks are sometimes used in basements to keep the floors above from sagging. I was just thinking about this as a possible source of the skull fracture, either from being slammed against it on purpose, or accidentally. When I was a kid we had some of these in our basement...they were just a little bigger in diameter than a baseball bat. Has anyone mentioned this before as a possible cause of the fracture?

    The first photo is a bit deceiving, as the jacks usually extend from floor to ceiling. The second photo shows several of them in a basement.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Loading...


  3. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

    Messages:
    8,022
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have them in my basement. Yet, IMHO, even if she was slammed into one of those, the physics of the force going into the skull are such that it would still not be enough to punch a hole like that. The jack is stationary. The force going into an object that is moving (such as a bat, golf club or heavy flashlight) and being swung is much greater, though the object it self may be smaller and lighter than that floor jack. I feel it needed to be either someone taller than JBR bringing something down on her skull, or slammed into something with a protrusion (like a faucet) that because of the shape of it could have punched a hole in a skull when slammed into. The hole could have resulted from her being slammed with considerable force into a faucet. A fall wouldn't do it either. She was too small and too light to hit the floor hard enough to cause that hole. Falling from a height would have produced a different kind of fracture. I feel the coroner's assessment is correct- blunt force trauma.
     
  4. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I read a post awhile back from a poster that believes that JB could have possibly been placed in the bathtub, after wetting the bed...for a bath. She was tired, and half asleep and probably put up a huge fuss, about getting in the tub at almost midnight. And that Patsy was being forceful with her, and she fell onto the faucet.
     
  5. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Ames, do you think there is any significance in that weird hair arrangement? I always wondered whether all the pony tails weren't about Patsy colouring JB's hair and getting cross when the latter objected to a dye job on Christmas night - after all, there was a pageant coming up and time might have been short in the upcoming Michigan vacation....


    (As always, I have to apologise if these odd thoughts have been disproved over the years).
     
  6. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Many people have wondered that.
     
  7. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have wondered that as well. I read somewhere...and I have no idea if it is true or not...that investigators smelled peroxide in one of the bathrooms. So, if that is true...then, the hair dyeing scenario could have very well happened. I have always leaned toward the bed wetting theory...but, a late hair dyeing job, on Christmas night...as the trigger...would be my second theory. I would love to know if the smell of peroxide in the bathroom is true...or not.
     
  8. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    It is interesting that Patsy was yapping on in her interview with ST about colouring her hair on Christmas Day almost as though she anticipated the question about the peroxide. I'm generally not very sexist but a female investigator would have been on that comment like a fly around a cow's bum...
     
  9. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,514
    Likes Received:
    311
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Hi Sophie.

    Ya. There's just so many little odd descrepancies or I guess just so many tidbits about the crime scene mentioned, but hard to source,

    The hair arrangement and the smell of peroxide?

    If her hair was bleached that smell lingers in your hair long after.
     
  10. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    JBR had her hair done at a beauty salon. Patsy colored her hair Christmas day--brunette.

    There were no bathroom incidences except in Steve Thomas's imagination.

    I don't think there were jacks in the basement. The basement was only under the original part of the house--the expanded area had a crawl space.

    The skin was not broken over the area JBR was hit....it's possible the perp had his own weapon, and knew what kind would not break the skin---or, the bat or flashlight. There was a fireplace poker in the wine cellar room that was not taken in.
     
  11. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Which has to be a huge mistake an opportunity missed by LE.


    Sorry Maikai: I have somehow managed to incorporate my comments into yours! Buffoon that I am.
     
  12. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree. And I also believe that with all of that money that the Ramsey's had...that Patsy would not have done her own hair, anyway. As far as JB goes..I read where she had taken her to her hairdresser and asked HER to bleach JB's hair...and the hairdresser refused, because JB was too young. Since I did go to cosmetology school, IMO...even if Patsy had of "shopped around", she would not have been able to find a hair dresser that would have bleached a young child's hair. I believe that is the reason that she started doing it herself. But, I can't see Patsy dyeing her OWN hair.
     
  13. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not if the "accident" happened BEFORE she put any on there.
     
  14. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I need a link to the fact that JB had her hair done at a beauty salon. I read that Patsy's hair dresser would not bleach a young child's hair...she started getting it done around four years of age. I believe that you are wrong about that. In fact, every hair dresser that I know won't bleach a child's hair, until they are around 12 or 13, because of the harsh chemicals. And even though Patsy said that she dyed her own hair...doesn't make it true.
     
  15. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,514
    Likes Received:
    311
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Hi Ames.

    How true.

    I still wonder, without those phone records, how do we know that the head injury occured inside the home?

    I wondered if someone had slammed the car door against JBR's head, by accident. Just trying to think of an object that would result in the displacement of bone and such a long linear fracture.

    The door jam, the strike plate on the the door stop ......
     
  16. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Tad...
    You are always so friendly...

    A faucet, or the side of the toilet, tub or sink....(the rounded part) would have caused it too, if slung hard enough into it.

    Well, really we do not have any proof that the head injury occured inside the home. But, garland was found in her hair...(and that had to have been when whoever took her downstairs, brushed her hair against the handrails, that were decorated for Christmas). If it had of happened outside...there wouldn't have been any reason for them to bring her inside..and then up the stairs...only to bring her back down again. IMO..the head injury happened inside the home.
     
  17. rashomon

    rashomon New Member

    Messages:
    1,670
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This autopsy photo clearly shows JonBenets had been freshly colored, which is why I'm inclined to believe the coloring had already been accomplished before they went to the Whites' party.

    *** Caution - graphic photo ****
    http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetneckback.jpg
     
  18. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    To be honest, I was thinking more of the roots at the very top of the head - the ones on display. Must say, though, that photo does show the damage to JBR's hair of the dye...This photo from Christmas morning does suggest that JBR's hair needed very little attention colour-wise:

    http://www.acandyrose.com/12251996JBRChristmasMorn1.jpg


    I guess the hair arrangement is just another oddity about this case. My own little girl would be furious if I tried to put her to bed with all those pony tails going on but kids are all different...
     
  19. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Thanks, Ames. It is another one of those odd incongruities about this case. I mean, those home hair dye kits were appalling twelve years ago so it's hard to imagine that Patsy would consider the results or the messiness of the job acceptable for her own hair....
     
  20. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

    Messages:
    8,022
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Even brunette hair dyes have peroxide. Labels are available for anyone to read in any drugstore. There are versions that are peroxide-free as well, and they are labeled as such. The odor in the bathroom could have been from hair dye, even it was brunette. And even a wealthy woman like PR may use a shampoo-in hair dye in a pinch when they are too busy to go to a salon. PR was certainly busy- with the party on the 23rd, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and the two trips immediately to follow, I can certainly imagine her doing her own dye job at home. I also do not think that it had anything to do with the crime, necessarily.
    JBR's hair, however, was not "dyed" but highlighted (frosted, to us older folks). Different process, using foil or a frosting cap, and one I doubt PR would have attempted to do on her daughter herself. The coroner noted in the autopsy that her hair was "freshly (evenly) colored". That means that the color went up close to the scalp, with little or no roots visible.
    Another clue to that is because hairs on the head do not all grow at exactly the same length, when roots become visible the darker band of hair next to the scalp (the roots) is uneven the longer it has been since the hair was colored.
     
  21. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I really think the hair is a non-issue. In summer JBR's hair would naturally lighten up in the sun.....at the most, her hair was highlighted. You can tell a total peroxide job, and I'm sure most hair dressers would not do that on a child. Nowadays, highlighting is not that unusual for young girls. I don't have a reference for the highlighting, but think it was in one of the books. In the pageant world, highlighting hair is not unusual. If you've ever spent time in the Colorado sun, with the high altitude, lighter hair like JBR's can get bleached naturally by the sun. The two ponytails don't seem unusal---I suppose long hair gets tangled, and a couple pony tails helps keep it in order.

    The blow to the head was the final act by this monster. I don't know why, but it's not the first murder where the victim was strangled, and then hit on the head...overkill. I think the perp became enraged at JBR---perhaps because she was putting up a fuss, and he was finding it hard to control her. Also, he couldn't get her out of the window and he panicked. As we recently heard in the death of Natasha Richardson, it can take time for the blood clot to form in a closed head injury. There wasn't that much blood pooling around the injury, so she was close to death when the blow occurred.

    Bedwetting was not an issue, except for Steve Thomas's trying to find a motive. Nowadays,there's a lot of things like disposable underwear, protection for the bed, where it just isn't a big deal. At the worst, if the sheets became soiled there was a washer/dryer near JBR's bedroom. Patsy also had help...she wasn't an over-stressed stay at home mom. The bed-wetting was occasional, and they had pull-ups in the house.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice