What a couple of great radio shows on JonBenet

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by mtwentz, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. mtwentz

    mtwentz New Member

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    I just want to say again, Tricia, if you're listening, the two radio shows on Jon Benet have both been fabulous. You and Dawna and Cynic have completely moved me out of the IDI camp- hopefully, there are some journalists out there who have been listening.

    There seems to be a hint of something big coming this year. I truly hope it is something that, as Steve Thomas puts it, brings us closer to "closure" in this case.

    I do notice there is some conflict on those who think Burke might share some guilt and Dawna, who is very proud of the life Burke has made for himself. That's what makes the JonBenet case so difficult- if you accept RDI, the only thing that seems clear is who wrote the ransom note, and everything else is up for grabs.

    I do tend to agree with Dawna though. I can't see how the Rs would have allowed Burke to go back to school so soon if he truly knew anything of any substance.
     
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  3. KarenUK

    KarenUK Active Member

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    It was a fantastic show - I listened to it on my MP3 player yesterday but I'm going to have to give it another listen as it was so much to take in.
    I'm intrigued about the announcement at the end too!
     
  4. nadjatheresa

    nadjatheresa Well-Known Member

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    The anniversary show was brilliant. It's true---there's so much to absorb. I look forward to follow up shows and hope Dr. Glenn Lipson will join you again in the future. Thank you!
     
  5. smurf86

    smurf86 Est. 1986 Dragon apprentice

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    Thats it, i haven't heard it yet but im going to right now!!!
     
  6. Roy23

    Roy23 New Member

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    Yeah, she seems to be hinting at something big. And she is clearly biased against the Ramsey's. I hated the whole tone of the show really. But I want justice so I hope a break is coming. My prediction would be they get a DNA match to an unknown nut case.
     
  7. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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    I hope I can figure out how to get sound out of my speakers.....I'd like to listen to the show. What is Steve Thomas doing these days? Did he ever have any children? Last I heard his wife was working in Germany, and he went there.
     
  8. mtwentz

    mtwentz New Member

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    As far as Steve Thomas goes, there was no mention of where he was or what he is doing, she just read a short New Year's message from him. It was nice to hear that he is aware of the good work going on at this forum and nice to know that he still thinks about this case every day.
     
  9. mtwentz

    mtwentz New Member

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    I tend to think that Tricia would not have any inside info in regards to any criminal investigation. More likely, in my mind, some new information to be released to the public, a new lawsuit to be filed, a new witness to step forward publicly, or something like that.
     
  10. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    I truly hope so. And not OLD info put forth as new. We are all weary of the same old, same old.
     
  11. Nixie

    Nixie New Member

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    It was a wonderful show and very informative!
     
  12. mtwentz

    mtwentz New Member

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    I wouldn't say she is "biased" anymore than any normal person has their own beliefs and biases. I think she's drawn conclusions based on her own analysis of the case.

    Clearly, we all bring our own "biases" to any issue we study. But we have to try and put those aside and look at what the facts say. To me, these are the most powerful facts in this case so far:
    -The child was killed in her own home.
    -All known implements used to kill her were also found in the home (Caveat: the implement used to cause the headblow has never been identified)
    -The ransom note was written from pen and paper found in the home.
    -The killer seemed to have been familiar with the layout of the house.
    -The ransom note, according to almost everyone who has analyzed it including Ramsey supporters, does not appear to be a genuine attempt to collect ransom. And the original Colorado state investigator who examined it thought Patsy Ramsey was the likely author.

    Putting just those facts together leads you to say that statistically speaking, the girl was probably killed by a family member living in the house and a good possibility that Patsy Ramsey wrote the fake ransom note to cover up the crime.

    On the Ramseys side, there is the alleged unknown male DNA that has "no innocent explanation". But the same D.A. who promoted this idea that the Ramseys are "cleared" is also the woman who called for the international arrest of John Mark Karr based on nothing more than some emails sent to a U. of Colorado professor. Her credibility is in question.

    With nothing else in hand, I would have to say, yes, someone in the family would be the first place I would look. But I don't definitely know what happened that Dec. 26 morning nor would I speculate who the killer was until we have more information.

    Adding to all this the seeming indifference of John Ramsey all these years to finding the killer (some great points were made by cynic and others on the show in this regard) reinforces the fact that the Ramseys are the most likely suspects in this case.
     
  13. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    I am not against the Ramseys. I am for the truth which is against the Ramseys.

    With every fiber of my being, on the eyes of my own child, the DNA means nothing. There will never be a match to a "nutcase" of any kind connected to this case.

    The unknown DNA came from the factory. Dr. Lee proved this without a doubt. Listen to the show where Dawna talks about the test Dr. Lee did.
     
  14. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    Thank you for all your comments on the show. I am glad you listened.

    Mtwentz, you have made my day.

    I don't know who killed JBR but I know it was not an intruder.

    Again, it is all of you and your hard work that has kept this case alive.

    Thank you.
     
  15. Roy23

    Roy23 New Member

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    Tricia,

    With all due respect, I did listen to Dr. Lee's analysis. Or at least most of it. I hate you would say that about the eyes of your child. Especially since I believe that LE has made strong statements that discredit prior issues with the DNA.

    So while I really appreciate all the wonderful things you have done and I mean that sincerely, I believe you eat crow on this one. Hope there are no hard feelings.
     
  16. KoldKase

    KoldKase New Member

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    I finally got the time to listen to it, and this program is brilliant!

    It's the best discussion I"ve ever heard of this case, hands down. Each person added so much in information, perspective, logical speculation, ideas, theories, and questions.

    Little, you dropped in important facts and information I was thinking needed to be brought up myself, like that Douglas never interviewed Patsy or Burke.

    Cynic, you had excellent questions and information to further the discussion, as well.

    Dawna was as articulate about this case as I've ever heard her, particularly on the issue of prior molestation. Dr. Wecht is the sole medical examiner's voice in the dark on this, and I will always be grateful to him for never letting that critical fact of this case be buried by Team Ramsey, because it is the one piece of evidence that to me irrefutably proves this assault began long before that night and therefore was not perpetrated by a stranger intruder.

    Dr. Glass and Dr. Lipson were impeccable in their professional expertise, speaking to the elements of the crime without prejudice. Dr. Lipson's insight into motives and the psychology of those involved in cases with similar crimes and dynamics was priceless. Much to think about there, because he clarified for me a possible motive for Patsy: revenge, if JR was discussing divorce, which we've heard whispers of that. Of course it's still speculation, but something to ponder.

    Another issue Lipson brought up that gives me pause is how abusers blame the victim for something they have done, to appease the abuser's guilty conscience. It takes me back to the 10th anniversary Larry King Live show in remembrance of JonBenet's murder, when John was asked by Larry if he wondered what her life would be like if she'd lived: after a long pause, John said that JonBenet was a handful--and then said no more about her. Another comment attributed to Patsy by the close family friend Pam Archuleta, John's pilot's wife, was that Patsy said JonBenet flirted too much with strangers. We know JonBenet was being molested, and a hallmark of sexually abused children is age inappropriate sexual behavior. I believe Patsy did know about the molestation, and I believe this was the catalyst in some way to the death of JonBenet. Remember the 3 phones calls in an hour, after office hours, to pediatrician Dr. Beouf, on Dec. 17th? Patsy didn't remember why she made the calls, she told Boulder LE. What did Dr. Beouf's records say? We don't know, as they have remained in a ghost file, strangely deposited in a bank vault which was then burgled, according to another hazy media report--cameras and bank vault security notwithstanding!

    Another great insight Dr. Lipton gave was how a parent can be very loving and yet have an inability to deal with anger. That fits with the head blow happening first. My personal opinion, with all due respect to those much more knowledgeable who should have convinced me by now (god help me, it HAS to add up), is that the head blow was struck in rage first. The evidence that leads me to that conclusion: JonBenet's blood was found on her bed pillow, probably from blood draining from her nose, but her urine was (allegedly) found in the carpet in the basement by the cellar door, along with the materials to make the handle for the garrote, indicating the attack started in/near her bedroom but she died from the strangulation in the basement. Additionally, there is still no evidence on the body of defensive injuries. More to the point, if there were a sexual abuser who accidently suppressed the vagus nerve during an erotic strangulation, then why would he/she have to bludgeon the child at that point--she's already dead? See my problem? I've seen varying opinions about the time between the head wounds and strangulation, so until someone definitively explains it all in a logical sequence with all the evidence, I'm unable to accept it was a sex game gone wrong.

    Also, I don't include or exclude Burke from some elements of the horrific events of that night, but I don't believe he could have carried an unconscious JonBenet down two flights of stairs to the basement. IMO But I digress.

    Yet another gem of the discussion is dissecting the psychology of Mary Lacy's eventual corruption regarding this case: how she got so invested in her personally held beliefs and then searched for evidence to back it up to reinforce those; pumped up by her absolute power to make spurious declarations and decisions based on biases rather than the body of evidence, Lacy failed miserably, as Dawna said.

    And thank you all for laying John Douglas open. It's good to hear that my impression of his huge betrayal of a murdered child wasn't just my own ego at work. We all have feet of clay, but he hurt this case so carelessly. Dr. Lipman and Donna had inside info and personal experience in the field with Douglas and his peers that we haven't heard before. Thanks so much for sharing that with us who have spent years online trying to keep the record of Douglas' disinformation campaign with Lou Smit from becoming Team Ramsey "fact."

    And I can't forget Zoomama! It was lovely hearing you participate, as well. Your question about whether Burke would even be believed if he spoke now was an excellent one.

    These are just a few thoughts on the excellent work you all did. Bravo to you all.

    But most of all, Tricia, you are in your element and astonishing. You guided the group with ease, kept the discussion moving with key questions and information, and were on top of the elements of the case and the players with an accuracy long lost on today's crop of slap-dash misinformation brokers barking on TV.

    You done good, girl! Really good.
     
  17. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    I am sorry I missed it. Thank you for posting the link, Tricia. I plan to listen over the weekend and I'll weigh in then.
     
  18. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    I know I am quoting myself but I need to make a correction.

    Without any doubt IMO the DNA means nothing. That's not the correction.

    The correction is Dr. Lee's findings. We don't have enough information to say for certain all the unknown touch DNA came from the factory. Let me make that clear. I was talking about the underpants only.

    Until we know the numbers/amount of touch DNA that was found on JBR we can't say what exactly is what.

    I stand by my statement that the touch DNA means nothing but we don't know where all the touch DNA was found and where it came from yet.

    Thank you and goodnight.

    Tricia
    PS. I have often said if I am wrong I will scream it from the mountain tops and spend the rest of my days apologizing to the Ramseys. But I am not wrong. There was no mystery intruder. It was someone known to the Ramseys. End of story.
     
  19. Roy23

    Roy23 New Member

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    I have to say that I am glad you took the time to clarify your previous statement. I may disagree with it but you are a leader that has done a lot for justice and helping people in general. Have a happy New Year!
     
  20. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    That goes for me, too.

    I don't think he's interested, Tricia. In fact, given the things he's said behind your back, I'm SURE he's not.
     
  21. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, mtwentz. As far as I'm concerned, there's no question about Mary Lacy's credibility at all: she has none!

    I don't think our friend realizes just what a GIGANTIC disservice ML did to the IDI position!
     

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