What details would you like clarified?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Jayelles, Jan 15, 2006.

  1. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    There are little details about evidence in this case that I would like to have clarified becasue they would make ALL the difference to the interpretation of the evidence.

    e.g.

    Do the panty & fingernail DNA match?
    There was foreign DNA nuder JBR's fingernails and in her panties. This DNA was degraded (yes - degraded, it was cracked and incomplete) and we know from screen captures on Tracey Doc I that there were only 2/3 markers from the fingernails. We also know from press releases that the panty DNA had 9 complete markers and a weaker tenth marker which enabled it to be run through CODIS. The full complement of markers for entry onto CODIS is 13.

    RST claim the fingernail and panty DNA are a match. Lou Smit ONCE made that claim on TV but has never repeated it publicly. However, he also made other claims which turned out to be wrong - i.e. that a blue line between the marks on JBR were made by a blue arc of electricity.

    The only official statement made by investigators about the panty DNA is that it may be the killer's but that it may NOT be the killer's. That it is very miniscule - like from a cough or a sneeze and may be from a worker at the factory which made the panties.

    If the markers from the fingernail DNA match markers from the panty DNA, this would be ludicrous.

    My query is - can they tell for sure whether markers match or is the fingernauil DNA too degraded to ever be conclusively labelled a match?

    If the two DNAs match, it is strong IDI evidence - so why not shout it from the rooftops?

    Is there a melted patch on the duct tape?
    RST claim a stungun was used on JBR. Alas, only one "pair" of marks is on her body. The leading expert on stunguns says no stungun was used and unfortunately, one pair does not a pattern maketh!

    The RST argue that on her face, the second stungun prod landed on the duct tape. I think the evidence contradicts this theory. For starters, the duct tape *may* act as insulation and stop the stungun from working. However, the evidence suggests that she was already dead or unconscious when the tape was applied because there is a perfect lip print on the tape. Why stungun a dead or unconscious child? Surely if she was taped and then stunned, her lips would move with the convulsion?

    jameson argues that there is a teensy little white patch on her skin and that this patch is gum from the underside of the tape - caused by the stungun melting the tape. This would be compelling evidence if it were a fact. So why are Lou Smit and the Ramseys not screaming it from the rooftops as evidence of a stungun? Why is it only jameson posting it on her forum as alleged "insider" knowledge.

    I cannot understand why jameson always hints at "insider" knowledge of evidence which clears the Ramseys. if it clears them - why not shout it from the rooftops?
     
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  3. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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    I, for one would like to know if Patsy and John ever read the McSanta's play

    about the murder of a girl in her basement. Did Patsy and John know this about

    her? Perhaps that's why they dumped her in the basement, instead of someplace else. Has this been discussed before?
     
  4. Rupert

    Rupert Former Member

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    Indeed, why not shout it from the rooftops?

    DNA - I don't trust it.

    Tape - Could have been applied when she was immobilzed by death or the stun gun and garrote (can a person move their tongue when garroted so severely - I doubt it).

    Stun Gun - should have been decided at autopsy (abrasion marks are simply not good enough description - after all this is a murder); but then again why not exhume to be decisive?

    Like everything else in this case, the evidence is on the edge to be debated one way or another. I wish we could find one unarguable piece of evidence that that leads to IDI or RDI.
    I guess we could say one thing for sure: this case was clouded.
     
  5. rashomon

    rashomon New Member

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    I have never heard of this. Could you tell more about it? TIA.
     
  6. sandraladeda

    sandraladeda Inactive

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    Sorry to be dense. Can someone tell me what "RST" means?
    Thx
     
  7. Thorkim

    Thorkim Member

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    RST = Ramsey Spin Team.
     
  8. sandraladeda

    sandraladeda Inactive

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    Merci beaucoup!!;)
     
  9. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    My recollection is if she were dead the stun gun wouldn't leave marks.

    Added:
    Here it is -

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/
    query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1288262&dopt=Abstract

    Homicidal manual strangulation and multiple stun-gun injuries.

    Ikeda N, Harada A, Suzuki T.

    Department of Forensic Medicine, Yamagata University School of Medicine, Japan.

    Stun guns are electric shock devices that are used by a number of law enforcement agencies to subdue violent offenders, but sometimes are discharged into human bodies as offensive weapons. We autopsied a 22-year-old woman who was strangled and had many stun-gun injuries on her head, chest, abdomen, arms, and legs. The stun-gun injuries consisted of many pairs of round erythemas with or without central paleness, some of which were accompanied by circumferentialabrasions. To determine whether the electric shocks were administered before or after her death, we studied stun-gun injuries on pigs before and after death and found that the shocks after death did not mark the animal skin. Based on this experiment, all of the stun-gun injuries on the victim's body were concluded to have been inflicted before her death.
     
  10. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    Janet McReynolds wrote a play 'Hey Rube' which was based on a novel about the sexual assault, torture and murder of a girl whose body was found in a basement.
     
  11. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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    Narla, do you have the same question I do? Don't you think
    the Rams would have to know about that play? I'd like that
    to be a question on their lie detect. test.
     
  12. IrishMist

    IrishMist You can't control the wind - but you can adjust yo

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    Ellen, I don't think they would have had to know about the play. I believe (and I'm going by memory, so this could be bad...) they did that play when they lived out east. It wasn't highly acclaimed, by any means... and I also remember it took some digging for reporters to find out much of anything about it.

    I'm gonna guess that the Ramsey's didn't know about it until after JonBenét's death.
     
  13. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    Hi Ellen

    I don't think the Ramsey's knew anything about the play that McSanta's wife wrote until after JonBenet's death.
    You will have to take their word on that though, it's up to you.
    The McChristmas's were strange, no doubt about it.
    It would seem the Ramsey's were too trusting and naive.....but I'm sure in business John was not like that at all......you don't get to be a multi millionaire by being too trusting and naive.
     
  14. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Jayelles,

    Not necessarily. It could be the DNA of someone a Ramsey had invited into the house.
     
  15. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Jayelles,

    Leading expert? Stratbucker is well versed in stun guns, but he is not without peers of equal expertise. IMO Doberson is one of them, and Doberson is of the opinion that a stun gun could have been used on JonBenet, as are most of the experts who gave opinions on the subject.

    The marks on JonBenet suggest a Taser brand stun gun had been used, and the Air Taser Corporation does not want her death associated with a Taser brand stun gun. Stratbucker has a vested financial interest in Air Taser, so his opinion that a stun gun was not used on JonBenet should be considered with caution.

    BlueCrab
     
  16. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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    Thank you both for your input on their knowledge of McReynold's
    play. I have been thinking about that for a while now. The reason I
    ask is that the Rams were so eager to make a list of suspects that were friends of theirs, that
    I wouldn't put it past them to do a staging that could
    incriminate Santa and his wife-anything to cause reasonable doubt and keep them (Rams) off the list of suspects. It was like how Patsy was so willing to turn over Linda Pugh.
    Speaking of that, and I know McReynolds
    health wasn't good, but did they have an alibi? I never believed he or his wife did
    it for one minute.
    Thanks again!
     
  17. IrishMist

    IrishMist You can't control the wind - but you can adjust yo

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    Ellen, I have a real hard time getting past McSanta. He was soooo weird the way he talked about JonBenét...
    Plus, the play that the Mrs. wrote.

    Just weird.

    Apparently, he was cleared. Steve Thomas didn't take him real seriously, because he had had heart surgery, um... help me out guys- I wanna say 4 months prior to the crime?

    But they also went on a ten day vacation to Spain- and travel, in my opinion, can be exhausting...

    He's a suspect that I just can't get out of my mind. With the help of Mrs. McSanta- could it have been done??? Mixing two people's DNA would certainly cloud matters.

    I just don't want to let go of that one, I guess. At the same time, I feel like it was a friend of JAR's.

    ETA: They were each other's alibi.
     
  18. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    The McChristmas's only had each other as alibi's.
    Indeed they were strange and it is hard to get past them like Irish says.
    But you have to ask yourself, why would the Ramsey's cover for them?
    I pretty much think they would only have covered for one of their own.
     
  19. IrishMist

    IrishMist You can't control the wind - but you can adjust yo

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    They did act like they were covering. And Camper keeps bringing up the "missing" video of that Christmas, which also seems odd. It makes me wonder who else was there that day? JAR? That doesn't seem likely, apparently his alibi checked out.

    But I do wonder about Patsy's dad. I just don't know much about him as far as his whereabouts, DNA testing, etc. Seems like he's under the radar somehow.
    He had an apartment in Boulder, did he not? Does anyone know what the scoop is with him?
     
  20. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    What "missing" video?

    I think Patsy's father still lives in Atlanta.
     
  21. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    Tipper
    The video of the Ramsey's christmas.
    They said there wasn't one as they hadn't charged the batteries on the video cam...or something like that, I can't quite remember.
    Camper mentions it every now and again, thought you would have seen her posts about it?
     

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