What do Burke's interviews tell us?

Seems that both children had eneurisis and encopresis ? moo jmo In my experience,these conditions can sometimes be seen in kids who are routinely sexually abused. They will wet or poop in their clothes in an attempt to drive their molester away... I don't know...what on earth was going on in that house ? jmo moo

Poor kids. I definitely believe the father is responsible for the sexual abuse, not sure if Patsy was aware or in deep denial.
 
Crossed my mind too...but,wow, the interview with Dr.B.was on January 8th ??
If someone was coaching this child on how they should feel,following the brutal murder of his sister ??? Telling him he should "move on" ?? Did he ever mourn his sister's passing ? What a tragic,and horrific concept...jmo moo

Creates a psychopath.
I haven't seen any interview or mention publically from Burke or the older two half-siblings about JBR, it's as if she didn't exist.
 
Seems that both children had eneurisis and encopresis ? moo jmo In my experience,these conditions can sometimes be seen in kids who are routinely sexually abused. They will wet or poop in their clothes in an attempt to drive their molester away... I don't know...what on earth was going on in that house ? jmo moo

I think this points towards B either being molested or upset because he knew JB was being molested. I also think many of the 'adult phrases' he may have used is parroting what his parents say on a regular basis or perhaps said after the fact.

Is it possible B left his soiled PJ's or underwear in JB's room on a regular basis because it was his way of speaking out when he was upset, maybe it is the only voice he had at the time about the situation. I think it's also possible that on the night of JB's murder, he awoke because something was going on, soiled his clothing, and then left it in her bedroom .... maybe hearing what was going on downstairs or having seen part of it whether in her bedroom or in the kitchen.

I'm still not seeing anything that directly points to B as the murderer and the parents covering up for him. I think they are covering up for each other and that the main culprit was Patsy.
 
"The soiling rate in the abused group differed significantly from that of the normative group, but not from the psychiatric group. Similar rates of soiling were reported among abused children, with and without penetration, and the psychiatric sample. Rates of sexualized behavior were reported significantly more often by the abused group versus both the psychiatric and normative groups and were a better predictor of abuse status. The positive predictive value of soiling as an indicator of abuse was 45% versus 63% for sexual acting out. The psychiatric sample displayed significantly more dysregulated behavior than the sexually abused sample. The predictive utility of fecal soiling as an indicator of sexual abuse in children is not supported. Soiling seems to represent one of many stress-induced dysregulated behaviors. Clinicians should assume the symptom of soiling is most likely related to the typical pathology and treat accordingly."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16511365

"If these physical causes have also been eliminated, emotional or psychological causes should be considered. Fecal soiling can occur when a child is anxious or emotionally distraught over some aspect of his life over which he has little control, such as family conflicts, academic difficulties, or problems with social relationships. Physical and sexual abuse may also need to be considered if soiling continues."

http://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...s/emotional-problems/pages/Fecal-Soiling.aspx
 
"The soiling rate in the abused group differed significantly from that of the normative group, but not from the psychiatric group. Similar rates of soiling were reported among abused children, with and without penetration, and the psychiatric sample. Rates of sexualized behavior were reported significantly more often by the abused group versus both the psychiatric and normative groups and were a better predictor of abuse status. The positive predictive value of soiling as an indicator of abuse was 45% versus 63% for sexual acting out. The psychiatric sample displayed significantly more dysregulated behavior than the sexually abused sample. The predictive utility of fecal soiling as an indicator of sexual abuse in children is not supported. Soiling seems to represent one of many stress-induced dysregulated behaviors. Clinicians should assume the symptom of soiling is most likely related to the typical pathology and treat accordingly."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...s/emotional-problems/pages/Fecal-Soiling.aspx

Hey time,
Yep, this is true . And this is also a symptom of RAD in kids. IDK...I have taken care of kids who had these symptoms as a result of all these things...but, IIRC, didn't JBR have some indications of prior abuse,according to the autopsy ?

I don't know what happened that night, I'm not a regular poster here...but,some posters have done incredible work on this case,perhaps hey will add their knowledge to this topic...jmo moo
 
Hey time,
Yep, this is true . And this is also a symptom of RAD in kids. IDK...I have taken care of kids who had these symptoms as a result of all these things...but, IIRC, didn't JBR have some indications of prior abuse,according to the autopsy ?

I don't know what happened that night, I'm not a regular poster here...but,some posters have done incredible work on this case,perhaps hey will add their knowledge to this topic...jmo moo

Hi liz :)

BBM- I think that is correct. I don't know if B was also sexually abused, but I tend to think his soiling behavior, even if on the walls, could be from extreme psychological distress of some sort. I don't think it was B who was abusing JonBenet though. I have always felt it was her mother.
 
Hi liz :)

BBM- I think that is correct. I don't know if B was also sexually abused, but I tend to think his soiling behavior, even if on the walls, could be from extreme psychological distress of some sort. I don't think it was B who was abusing JonBenet though. I have always felt it was her mother.

IMO That kid clearly didn't feel attached to anyone, least of all his sister.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
Interesting thread bump....what's interesting about Boniya papers and Kolar's book, is that Kolar also makes note of his convo with the shrink...many times "distant," or odd behavior can be rationalized, but there are several instances, along with his seeming complete lack of empathy over her death, and the lengths the parents went to to protect him, themselves.

I know there are many who feel "lawyering up" is what everyone should do, but I feel confident believing that if god forbid I was in a situation even remotely similar, I would beg police to clear me so they could move on to other leads. The Rs lawyered up, and by extension protected BR HOURS after JRBs body was found. Can their innocence seem sincere when the family tries to flee Boulder that very night? When they already had lawyers interceding? Why they refused--and by extension refused on BR's behalf--to formal questioning for 4 months? Why they failed, and it was allowed, to comply with turning over their clothing from the night of the 25th, morning of 26th turned over to LE until a year later? Why were med records never released to LE? What happened to the phone records?

Every case has a few coincidences, or inconsistencies...when there are this many, it's not coincidence, it's a pattern, which a clearly defined objective.
 
Hi liz :)

BBM- I think that is correct. I don't know if B was also sexually abused, but I tend to think his soiling behavior, even if on the walls, could be from extreme psychological distress of some sort. I don't think it was B who was abusing JonBenet though. I have always felt it was her mother.

This type of behavior(fecal smearing ) is always a sign of an emotionally disturbed child . And. it is quite serious. moo jmo. I have known it to most often be associated with RAD kids,and also sexually abused kids. However, the discussion upthread referenced fecal smearing on some chocolates in JBR's room. That's a bit different. moo jmo. To me,that speaks of rage...directed towards JBR. jmo moo
 
Interesting thread bump....what's interesting about Boniya papers and Kolar's book, is that Kolar also makes note of his convo with the shrink...many times "distant," or odd behavior can be rationalized, but there are several instances, along with his seeming complete lack of empathy over her death, and the lengths the parents went to to protect him, themselves.

I know there are many who feel "lawyering up" is what everyone should do, but I feel confident believing that if god forbid I was in a situation even remotely similar, I would beg police to clear me so they could move on to other leads. The Rs lawyered up, and by extension protected BR HOURS after JRBs body was found. Can their innocence seem sincere when the family tries to flee Boulder that very night? When they already had lawyers interceding? Why they refused--and by extension refused on BR's behalf--to formal questioning for 4 months? Why they failed, and it was allowed, to comply with turning over their clothing from the night of the 25th, morning of 26th turned over to LE until a year later? Why were med records never released to LE? What happened to the phone records?

Every case has a few coincidences, or inconsistencies...when there are this many, it's not coincidence, it's a pattern, which a clearly defined objective.

While I do defend parents "lawyering up" in situations like this, the timing does give me pause. Most people in these types of situations do not contact a lawyer this fast, unless the police have given some indication that they want to bring them in for questioning or it's clear they are a suspect. For the Ramseys, they were treated with kid gloves. While it's common and not indicative of guilt or innocence to contact a lawyer within a day or so of events like these, the fact that they contacted a lawyer so quickly, to me, points to hiding something. I've leaned towards BDI, but really, I've heard plenty of plausible theories for JDI, PDI, or even JARDI. So who knows.
 
This type of behavior(fecal smearing ) is always a sign of an emotionally disturbed child . And. it is quite serious. moo jmo. I have known it to most often be associated with RAD kids,and also sexually abused kids. However, the discussion upthread referenced fecal smearing on some chocolates in JBR's room. That's a bit different. moo jmo. To me,that speaks of rage...directed towards JBR. jmo moo

Interesting observation! What I also found interesting in looking around is that no test was done on the fecal matter to see who it belonged to (I'm assuming the day(s) after the murder). But the nanny/housekeeper did talk about how Burke smeared feces on the bathroom walls during Patsy's first bout with cancer. I wonder if his rage was directed at her?
 
Interesting observation! What I also found interesting in looking around is that no test was done on the fecal matter to see who it belonged to (I'm assuming the day(s) after the murder). But the nanny/housekeeper did talk about how Burke smeared feces on the bathroom walls during Patsy's first bout with cancer. I wonder if his rage was directed at her?

don't know for sure, but in my experience, fecal smearing on bathroom walls,or in the child's own bedroom is almost always a sure sign of RAD. Perhaps PR's illness served to weaken whatever attachment BR had with her. Perhaps he was convinced, in his little boy mind,that his mother was going to leave him,thus breaking their attachment bond. It's interesting. jmo moo

But, smearing feces on items in his sister's room,on her personal belongings ,is something else again.jmo moo. He is displaying scorn for the normal boundaries. jmo moo That would seem to be an act of extreme anger. Since no medical records can be discussed,though, who really knows ? jmo moo
 
Interesting thread bump....what's interesting about Bonilla (sp?) papers and Kolar's book, is that Kolar speaks with the shrink, and confirms the contents of that report (IIRC) it's important to remember that Kolar doesn't go after the Rs out of malice. He has/had a good deal of compassion for the family. He begins to focus on the family b/c that's where his investigation takes him.

many times "distant," or odd behavior can be rationalized, but there are several instances of odd behavior from BR. He has a seeming complete lack of empathy over her death, is another example of some sort of attachment. BTW, what is RAD? Additionally for me, the lengths the parents went to to protect him themselves are damning, no other way to describe it.

"lawyering up" is not normal. This is another example.... Any expert who looks at this case confirms you have to give yourself over to be cleared. It allows to move on to other leads. The Rs lawyered up, and by extension protected their son--HOURS after JRBs body was found. Can their innocence seem sincere when the family tries to flee Boulder that very night? When they already had lawyers interceding? When they refused--and by extension refused on BR's behalf--to formal questioning for 4 months? When they failed to comply with turning over their clothing from the night of the 25th, morning of 26th to LE until a year later? When med records are never released to LE? What happened to the phone records?

Every case has a few coincidences, or inconsistencies...when there are this many, it's not coincidence, it's a pattern, with a clearly defined objective.

Eta: sexual abuse investigation was a big part of her autopsy, and there was a good deal MSM didn't cover.
 
Interesting thread bump....what's interesting about Bonilla (sp?) papers and Kolar's book, is that Kolar speaks with the shrink, and confirms the contents of that report (IIRC) it's important to remember that Kolar doesn't go after the Rs out of malice. He has/had a good deal of compassion for the family. He begins to focus on the family b/c that's where his investigation takes him.

many times "distant," or odd behavior can be rationalized, but there are several instances of odd behavior from BR. He has a seeming complete lack of empathy over her death, is another example of some sort of attachment. BTW, what is RAD? Additionally for me, the lengths the parents went to to protect him themselves are damning, no other way to describe it.

"lawyering up" is not normal. This is another example.... Any expert who looks at this case confirms you have to give yourself over to be cleared. It allows to move on to other leads. The Rs lawyered up, and by extension protected their son--HOURS after JRBs body was found. Can their innocence seem sincere when the family tries to flee Boulder that very night? When they already had lawyers interceding? When they refused--and by extension refused on BR's behalf--to formal questioning for 4 months? When they failed to comply with turning over their clothing from the night of the 25th, morning of 26th to LE until a year later? When med records are never released to LE? What happened to the phone records?

Every case has a few coincidences, or inconsistencies...when there are this many, it's not coincidence, it's a pattern, with a clearly defined objective.

Eta: sexual abuse investigation was a big part of her autopsy, and there was a good deal MSM didn't cover.

Think I'll get the book. i just don't know many things about the investigation. Ty for posting this.
 
can someone please remind me where exactly in the basement did the cops find BR's knife ?

TIA
 
don't know for sure, but in my experience, fecal smearing on bathroom walls,or in the child's own bedroom is almost always a sure sign of RAD. Perhaps PR's illness served to weaken whatever attachment BR had with her. Perhaps he was convinced, in his little boy mind,that his mother was going to leave him,thus breaking their attachment bond. It's interesting. jmo moo

But, smearing feces on items in his sister's room,on her personal belongings ,is something else again.jmo moo. He is displaying scorn for the normal boundaries. jmo moo That would seem to be an act of extreme anger. Since no medical records can be discussed,though, who really knows ? jmo moo

I think there could be several possibilities on why a child would engage in feces smearing ... there are too many to mention when googled and I am not an expert! But many, and possibly overlapping/comorbid, possibilities include ODD, autism, physical/sexual abuse, attention deficit, being bullied, encopresis , and so on. Here are some reported by parents/caregivers and I tend to think they have to be evaluated based on the kids age also.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Child-Behavior/12-year-old-boy-smearing-poop-/show/585404

All of this seems parallel to reports he seems detached ... but again, could he be autistic or? That would put things in an entirely different light.

I also wonder if a kid would put poo on a personal item of a child because it is somehow associated with why the child got that item or the person who gave it to her. Or if it is just an immature act of a sibling who is not getting as much attention - that doesn't mean he is sexually molesting her or murdered her accidentally or not.

IDK, I'm speculating on opening up the possibilities more than closing them since there is so much unknown?

I'm not sure how many of the poo incidents are validated as being B and, if so, what is the rest of the context.
 
I think there could be several possibilities on why a child would engage in feces smearing ... there are too many to mention when googled and I am not an expert! But many, and possibly overlapping/comorbid, possibilities include ODD, autism, physical/sexual abuse, attention deficit, being bullied, encopresis , and so on. Here are some reported by parents/caregivers and I tend to think they have to be evaluated based on the kids age also.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Child-Behavior/12-year-old-boy-smearing-poop-/show/585404

All of this seems parallel to reports he seems detached ... but again, could he be autistic or? That would put things in an entirely different light.

I also wonder if a kid would put poo on a personal item of a child because it is somehow associated with why the child got that item or the person who gave it to her. Or if it is just an immature act of a sibling who is not getting as much attention - that doesn't mean he is sexually molesting her or murdered her accidentally or not.

IDK, I'm speculating on opening up the possibilities more than closing them since there is so much unknown?

I'm not sure how many of the poo incidents are validated as being B and, if so, what is the rest of the context.

Based on how he seems now, i really doubt he's autistic. Smearing at his age was probably RAD type rage. And,again, smearing on his sister's personal belongings is highly disturbing,based on his weak boundary perceptions. I don't think any other family member did that...jmo moo

But you know,Time, I could be mistaken. I cared for many children who did this type of smearing. I did it for almost 25 years, but the children I cared for in my home were all seriously emotionally disturbed. Many of them had been sexually abused too. many of them had a diagnosis of Reactive Attachment Disorder, which is a serious pediatric psychiatric disorder. I may be making the mistake of comparing BR's behavior to the experiences i have had with these kids...... BR was able to get a degree in computer science from Purdue. has had relationships...So,actually, it is puzzling...jmo moo
 
Based on how he seems now, i really doubt he's autistic. Smearing at his age was probably RAD type rage. And,again, smearing on his sister's personal belongings is highly disturbing,based on his weak boundary perceptions. I don't think any other family member did that...jmo moo

But you know,Time, I could be mistaken. I cared for many children who did this type of smearing. I did it for almost 25 years, but the children I cared for in my home were all seriously emotionally disturbed. Many of them had been sexually abused too. many of them had a diagnosis of Reactive Attachment Disorder, which is a serious pediatric psychiatric disorder. I may be making the mistake of comparing BR's behavior to the experiences i have had with these kids...... BR was able to get a degree in computer science from Purdue. has had relationships...So,actually, it is puzzling...jmo moo

Yeah, I had the same thoughts about it not being autism because of this. I guess there is a range of autism, but still I don't know enough about it.
 
Interesting observation! What I also found interesting in looking around is that no test was done on the fecal matter to see who it belonged to (I'm assuming the day(s) after the murder). But the nanny/housekeeper did talk about how Burke smeared feces on the bathroom walls during Patsy's first bout with cancer. I wonder if his rage was directed at her?

Could it be possible that B just went to the rest room and wiped and had poo on his hand so wiped it on the wall, sometimes the easiest and quickest thing to do and with the candy, is it possible the child who did it just had not properly washed their hands before eating candy? I'm just asking. Kids sometimes are not the cleanest things.

Also since we don't know which kids poop was on the candy it could have been B just being mean to sis, or it could have been JB not washing hands after going to the toilet.
 
Yeah, I had the same thoughts about it not being autism because of this. I guess there is a range of autism, but still I don't know enough about it.

I had a child several years ago who was diagnosed with Aspergers. Turns out his dad, a college professor, told us he, too had it. But you would never know. He had wonderful social skills and had obviously done quite well in school, himself. I think having support and learning coping skills early on can help tremendously. Also, there are different degrees of severity.

I apologize if my wording (diagnosed, severity) offends anyone. I don't mean for it to sound like Aspergers is a disease or anything. It's just a different way of processing things. A different way of experiencing things. :)
 

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