What If............(IDI+RDI)

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by madeleine, May 13, 2009.

  1. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    I know that this sounds far fetched,
    but what if John or Patsy(whoever it was if it was one of them who did it) had an accomplice,hence the unknown male DNA.
    What if it was JR+intruder or PR+intruder or PR+JR+intruder(sexual games,whatever,no idea)
    You never know these days......

    And by intruder I mean a friend or a co-worker,could be also someone they/he/she just met.
     
  2. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    not in that context,but what if someone else could have redressed her?? what if it was just too hard for them,plus they wanted to throw another element into the mix?? anyone who had the potential to be there should be checked,IMO.
     
  3. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

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    I don't really think this now, but my first reaction on hearing about this crime and mistaking the principals (I thought it was one of the little girls from 'Painted Babies' who had been harmed and was still thinking it was just a kidnapping) was to think that the family had orchestrated a faux kidnapping to get JBR a sympathy advantage in the pageants. Certainly one or two of the mothers in that documentary struck me as unhinged enough to do something like that. Of course, now I can't believe that I ever had so loony an initial reaction but, oddly, when my book group was on a true crime run a few months ago and read ST's book, one of the women suggested the very same thing. Loonies think alike I guess :)
     
  4. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    yeah,takes us back to the phone records issue.who did they call and why?
     
  5. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    That's my brother's theory. But he refuses to have it printed here.
     
  6. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    We refer to the prophesy of the one who will bring balance to the Force.

    You believe it is this...female?

    She can see things others don't see. :crazy:

    Don't forget BDI + IDI

    ST should look up Bobby Frank, Leopold & Loeb murder. It's hard to believe two rich Univ of Chicago students who studied the philosophy of Fredrich Nietzsche with IQ 190 and 160 don't have something better to do.
     
  7. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    We'll never know. DA Hunter refused to grant a subpoena for the phone records. Months later, the records were obtained illegally by a tabloid, and though they were admitted as evidence in THAT case against the tabloid involved, they were not permitted to be used as evidence in JBR's murder. Ever.
    But, ominously- some of the phone records (I believe it was the cell phone) showed NO calls made in December. Right....
     
  8. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    ..obviously someone was paid heavy duty to make those calls disappear!!
     
  9. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    like Deedee said,we'll never know for sure,BUT...IMO,the Stine's were one of those calls,seeing as they were the last outside the family to see JB alive (supposedly).Even so,the R's didn't call them to come over the next morning (even though they were good friends,too),along w everyone else they called.It's their lack of presence that makes it suspect.That,and then there was Susan Stine crawling the web,and putting out fake emails to LE,etc.....IMO,she was on the net trying to see what might have leaked out about their own knowledge and or involvement in it.
     
  10. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    That sounds likely to me as well. I am beginning to believe more and more that phone calls were made for help that night- sometime between 10 pm and the 6 am 911 call. So that would help explain the "How could parents do this (the staging) to their own child" thing. If the calls were to the Stines, and they were the ones there all night helping with the staging, that would explain their absence from the friends who were called that morning. It would explain very well the viciousness with which SS went after anyone sniffing around the Rs as suspects as well as the illegal lengths she went to (impersonating an officer and the "Patricia Letters". )
     
  11. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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    They've been down that road or speculation. There is no history that PR or JR were into sexual games.
     
  12. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    I agree here. I think that tongues wagged about the Ramseys and things like that would simply not stay secret.
     
  13. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    There's a start for everything.
     
  14. Roy23

    Roy23 New Member

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    Personally speaking

    I think if a Ramsey is involved, your scenario is the only possible way that could be true. To me every other theory does not hold water.
     
  15. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    You are absolutely right. For every behavior there is a FIRST time. Ever smoker has a "first cigarette". Every alcoholic has a first drink. That is why it upsets me whenever I see the Rs dismissed as suspects because there was no prior behavior. EVERY "prior" starts somewhere, whether a serial killer of family abuser.
     
  16. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    If I recall correctly L&L weren't pedophiles and the victim wasn't sexually abused.Pls correct me if I'm wrong,don't remember much about this case.
     
  17. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    I was going to get around to that, madeleine.
     
  18. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/loeb/3c.html

    Essentially, the whole murder/kidnap scheme was an elaborate game to entertain and intellectually challenge two bored students. They immensely enjoyed developing and refining what they were certain was the "perfect crime," befitting their superior intellects. Collecting the ransom without being caught was a more difficult problem for them than the kidnapping and murder. They had put together several different plans for the ransom collection, researching each plan diligently.

    Richard knew Bobby. He was a neighbor and had played on the Loeb mansion's tennis courts. Richard asked him to look at a particular tennis racket and Bobby agreed. As soon as he was in the car, Bobby was hit on the head with a chisel and a cloth forced down his throat, which led to his suffocation.

    ""The diabolical spirit evinced in the planned kidnapping and murder; the wealth and prominence of the families whose sons are involved; the high mental attainments of the youths, *the suggestions of perversion;* the strange quirks indicated in the confession that the child was slain for a ransom, for experience, for the satisfaction of a desire for "deep plotting," combined to set the case in a class by itself."
     
  19. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/loeb/3c.html

    Essentially, the whole murder/kidnap scheme was an elaborate game to entertain and intellectually challenge two bored students. They immensely enjoyed developing and refining what they were certain was the "perfect crime," befitting their superior intellects. Collecting the ransom without being caught was a more difficult problem for them than the kidnapping and murder. They had put together several different plans for the ransom collection, researching each plan diligently.

    Richard knew Bobby. He was a neighbor and had played on the Loeb mansion's tennis courts. Richard asked him to look at a particular tennis racket and Bobby agreed. As soon as he was in the car, Bobby was hit on the head with a chisel and a cloth forced down his throat, which led to his suffocation.

    ""The diabolical spirit evinced in the planned kidnapping and murder; the wealth and prominence of the families whose sons are involved; the high mental attainments of the youths, *the suggestions of perversion;* the strange quirks indicated in the confession that the child was slain for a ransom, for experience, for the satisfaction of a desire for "deep plotting," combined to set the case in a class by itself."

    "adding weight to the "perversion" testimony, and causing from then on, a notion in the mind of the public that the entire kidnaping was an act of perversion, that Robery Franks was sexually abused, an idea that remained with the case, that Leopold wrote about in his autobiography, citing a time when he was denied a transfer to the honor farm, because "sexual criminals" were not allowed there. "

    --- the alleged sexual abuse of BF was an issue raised in trial, and by psychiatrists who examined them.
     
  20. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/loeb/3c.html

    "Essentially, the whole murder/kidnap scheme was an elaborate game to entertain and intellectually challenge two bored students. They immensely enjoyed developing and refining what they were certain was the "perfect crime," befitting their superior intellects. Collecting the ransom without being caught was a more difficult problem for them than the kidnapping and murder. They had put together several different plans for the ransom collection, researching each plan diligently.

    "Richard knew Bobby. He was a neighbor and had played on the Loeb mansion's tennis courts. Richard asked him to look at a particular tennis racket and Bobby agreed. As soon as he was in the car, Bobby was hit on the head with a chisel and a cloth forced down his throat, which led to his suffocation.

    ""The diabolical spirit evinced in the planned kidnapping and murder; the wealth and prominence of the families whose sons are involved; the high mental attainments of the youths, *the suggestions of perversion;* the strange quirks indicated in the confession that the child was slain for a ransom, for experience, for the satisfaction of a desire for "deep plotting," combined to set the case in a class by itself."

    "adding weight to the "perversion" testimony, and causing from then on, a notion in the mind of the public that the entire kidnaping was an act of perversion, that Robery Franks was sexually abused, an idea that remained with the case, that Leopold wrote about in his autobiography, citing a time when he was denied a transfer to the honor farm, because "sexual criminals" were not allowed there. "" - end of quotations

    --- the alleged sexual abuse of BF was an issue raised in trial, and by psychiatrists who examined them. The claim does exist in transcripts.

    I have speculated if the IDI was motivated by L&L to commit "the perfect crime" as an "intellectual" challenge. I know that the RDI's here will dismiss such a theory out of hand.
     

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