FULTON
Member
I saw the very same show,very compelling evidence.
What Room?
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Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182- Latest: girlhasnoname
I saw the very same show,very compelling evidence.
Toth
Inactive
Sybil was work of fiction.
Ivy
Inactive
I don't know if the Sybil story is fiction, but the Rs' Intruder story sure is.
why_nutt
New Member
No, the book was not a work of fiction. It may have taken occasional liberties, but DOI has done much the same (I have not obtained the paperback to see whether the Ramseys corrected their patent falsehoods in the hardcover that there were no Alamo rental car locations in Oklahoma, or that Geraldo Rivera's syndicated tv program appeared on the cable news network MSNBC, to name but two).
Here are articles about the real-life Sybil.
http://www.freep.com/news/nw/qsybil23.htm
http://www.aceweekly.com/Backissues_ACEWeekly/010802/cover_story010802.html
http://www.robertboynton.com/?art_id=135
Imon128
Former Member
If it happened in the bath tub, how difficult would it be to clean up the tub and rinse any evidence right down the drain?
I seriously doubt they were calm, writing the note, but motivated more by the desire to escape blame than the desire to be calm. We all have our priorities, right?
Blazeboy3
Inactive
\
Movie (Sybil) was beyond "belief!"
Reminds me of what D.Dunn stated on LKL "they are stuck with each other (the R's that is)!"
Nedthan Johns
New Member
7kluz:
This is a hypothetical question, of course: (at least for the record ) What room was JonBenét killed in? If John was molesting her, would he do that in her bed? OR would he lure her downstairs first? She reportedly had dirty feet, but maybe she had taken her shoes off at the White's earlier, then just put her shoes and socks back on without washing them first. I believe she was murdered upstairs in her room and that most of the "finishing off" and staging occured in the basement.
Ned: GREAT thread 7. Haven't seen a great thread in a long time. my thoughts... I also tend to believe she was murdered upstairs. I beleive the dusty feet came from helping Patsy possibly retrieve presents from the basement that she had to finish wrapping or perhaps to retrieve suitcases to pack for the trip. Here's a thought. Why were all the clothes that they were taking on their trip NOT in suitcases? Could it be because the suitcase was at one point brought up stairs? If JB was murdered and put in that case, as I STRONGLY believe, then Patsy wouldn't have packed the clothes in it. Before cops arrived, she had to throw the clothes in a bag and the suitcase was returned to the basement and placed in front of the broken window to simulate a break in. That is one of my theories. I believe that because of the rope fibers found in JB's bed that the garrote was either tied in bed after JB was struck in the head, or transfered there from Patsy's jacket when she returned to JB's room. I strongly lean towards Patsy as the one who inflicted the the blow to the head, as Patsy HAD to stay up late that night to pack and get ready for their early morning trip. Most likely JonBenet was up with Patsy. I don't believe that JR would risk molesting JB on a night with such activity. Burke awake and excited about his gifts, Patsy in a panic to get things together, plus with a busy day and an early morning rise, to me it just suggests the wrong sort of setting JR would need to risk this behavior, however, I have not rulled out JR previously molesting JB, but do lean towards more of a corporial type punishment, for the fact that JB was never penially penetrated. Could be it was leading to that, however Patsy is still my stonger connection to this sort of punishment, and would be the closed door type of punishement I would expect from a person like Patsy. Still I am now convinced of John's earlier involvement in this crime after listening to the 911 call, and he certainly was involved in the coverup. That makes me question WHY? what was his motive for doing so? Fear of losing everything or fear of being CAUGHT?
This is a hypothetical question, of course: (at least for the record ) What room was JonBenét killed in? If John was molesting her, would he do that in her bed? OR would he lure her downstairs first? She reportedly had dirty feet, but maybe she had taken her shoes off at the White's earlier, then just put her shoes and socks back on without washing them first. I believe she was murdered upstairs in her room and that most of the "finishing off" and staging occured in the basement.
Ned: GREAT thread 7. Haven't seen a great thread in a long time. my thoughts... I also tend to believe she was murdered upstairs. I beleive the dusty feet came from helping Patsy possibly retrieve presents from the basement that she had to finish wrapping or perhaps to retrieve suitcases to pack for the trip. Here's a thought. Why were all the clothes that they were taking on their trip NOT in suitcases? Could it be because the suitcase was at one point brought up stairs? If JB was murdered and put in that case, as I STRONGLY believe, then Patsy wouldn't have packed the clothes in it. Before cops arrived, she had to throw the clothes in a bag and the suitcase was returned to the basement and placed in front of the broken window to simulate a break in. That is one of my theories. I believe that because of the rope fibers found in JB's bed that the garrote was either tied in bed after JB was struck in the head, or transfered there from Patsy's jacket when she returned to JB's room. I strongly lean towards Patsy as the one who inflicted the the blow to the head, as Patsy HAD to stay up late that night to pack and get ready for their early morning trip. Most likely JonBenet was up with Patsy. I don't believe that JR would risk molesting JB on a night with such activity. Burke awake and excited about his gifts, Patsy in a panic to get things together, plus with a busy day and an early morning rise, to me it just suggests the wrong sort of setting JR would need to risk this behavior, however, I have not rulled out JR previously molesting JB, but do lean towards more of a corporial type punishment, for the fact that JB was never penially penetrated. Could be it was leading to that, however Patsy is still my stonger connection to this sort of punishment, and would be the closed door type of punishement I would expect from a person like Patsy. Still I am now convinced of John's earlier involvement in this crime after listening to the 911 call, and he certainly was involved in the coverup. That makes me question WHY? what was his motive for doing so? Fear of losing everything or fear of being CAUGHT?
Nedthan Johns
New Member
Toltec: 7Kluz...I'm sorry to admit that every time I see your hat, I pronounce it 7 KLUTZ....tee hee! What exactly does your hat mean?
Ned: hahah LOL TOltec so did I until you pointed it out LOL
Ned: hahah LOL TOltec so did I until you pointed it out LOL
Nedthan Johns
New Member
Toltec:
Anyhoo...I believe that JonBenet was initially assaulted in her room because a paring knife was found on the counter outside of JonBenets room and cord fibers were found on her sheet. Was the cord cut on her bed? Possibly.
Ned: Agree Toltec. A panicked mother places her unconscious child on the bed, here perhaps is where JR comes in. I still cant imagine with a skull fracture of that magnitude JR didnt hear and come running.
Toltec: Patsy was in JAR's room packing for the trip to Orlando. I believe whatever happened that night started there. Perhaps JB went into JAR's room looking for Mommy and found her packing.
Ned: Also agree that is a likely scenario. Also points out the suitcase. Did anyone think that perhaps JR and Patsy placed JB in that suitcase to transport her to the basement JUST in case Burke was still awake and came out to see what was going on? Or perhaps they planned on transporting her and thought otherwise? How likely is it that JR and Patsy as conscious as they are about how they were dressed for JBs funeral, are the type of people to pack their clothes in trash bags of all things? I believe the trash bags are a big red flag that points to the suitcase being used somehow in this crime. No one that I know of packs their clothes in trash bags.
Toltec: JonBenet tells Patsy that she soiled herself and so Patsy takes JonBenet to her toilet. Does that explain the soiled pants found on the bathroom floor...and the red turtleneck found balled up on the bathroom counter?
Ned: Sure does.
Toltec: Will explain the rest later...got to tend to the kids.
Ned: I look forward to reading your thoughts
Anyhoo...I believe that JonBenet was initially assaulted in her room because a paring knife was found on the counter outside of JonBenets room and cord fibers were found on her sheet. Was the cord cut on her bed? Possibly.
Ned: Agree Toltec. A panicked mother places her unconscious child on the bed, here perhaps is where JR comes in. I still cant imagine with a skull fracture of that magnitude JR didnt hear and come running.
Toltec: Patsy was in JAR's room packing for the trip to Orlando. I believe whatever happened that night started there. Perhaps JB went into JAR's room looking for Mommy and found her packing.
Ned: Also agree that is a likely scenario. Also points out the suitcase. Did anyone think that perhaps JR and Patsy placed JB in that suitcase to transport her to the basement JUST in case Burke was still awake and came out to see what was going on? Or perhaps they planned on transporting her and thought otherwise? How likely is it that JR and Patsy as conscious as they are about how they were dressed for JBs funeral, are the type of people to pack their clothes in trash bags of all things? I believe the trash bags are a big red flag that points to the suitcase being used somehow in this crime. No one that I know of packs their clothes in trash bags.
Toltec: JonBenet tells Patsy that she soiled herself and so Patsy takes JonBenet to her toilet. Does that explain the soiled pants found on the bathroom floor...and the red turtleneck found balled up on the bathroom counter?
Ned: Sure does.
Toltec: Will explain the rest later...got to tend to the kids.
Ned: I look forward to reading your thoughts
Nedthan Johns
New Member
Toth: The intruder undoubtedly took JonBenet from her bed while she was sleeping.
Ned: The intruder hehe
He did not lure her in any fashion.
Ned: Guess we have no explaination for the pineapple and dirty feet
She is thought to have died where the urine was voided outside the room where she was found and near the paint tote.
Ned: I remember that, and since JB was re-dressed, what about the scenario that she was changed down in the basement and soiled panties were placed on the carpet? Or perhaps JB's suffering was so unbearable, or perhaps the parents thought she was already dead, the garrote wasn't pulled tight until she was placed in the basement? Depends on the amount of urine found on the carpet.
John Ramsey was not molesting JonBenet (or anyone else).
Neither John nor Patsy Ramsey got up during the night.
Patsy Ramsey was not in the JAR/Guest room that night.
Ned: Toth then why are did the experts hired by the BPD come to the conclusion after reviewing JB's autopsy photos that JB had been priorly molested before the night of her murder? What evidence was there that Patsy hadn't been in JAR's room that night? and please don't tell me it's because she told you so, seriously how do you know she wasn't in the room?
Ned: The intruder hehe
He did not lure her in any fashion.
Ned: Guess we have no explaination for the pineapple and dirty feet
She is thought to have died where the urine was voided outside the room where she was found and near the paint tote.
Ned: I remember that, and since JB was re-dressed, what about the scenario that she was changed down in the basement and soiled panties were placed on the carpet? Or perhaps JB's suffering was so unbearable, or perhaps the parents thought she was already dead, the garrote wasn't pulled tight until she was placed in the basement? Depends on the amount of urine found on the carpet.
John Ramsey was not molesting JonBenet (or anyone else).
Neither John nor Patsy Ramsey got up during the night.
Patsy Ramsey was not in the JAR/Guest room that night.
Ned: Toth then why are did the experts hired by the BPD come to the conclusion after reviewing JB's autopsy photos that JB had been priorly molested before the night of her murder? What evidence was there that Patsy hadn't been in JAR's room that night? and please don't tell me it's because she told you so, seriously how do you know she wasn't in the room?
Nedthan Johns
New Member
Twlight:
Thing that strikes me is that Steve Thomas thinks it happened in her bathroom, and he has seen ALL the evidence.
Ned: Thomas also thinks JB wet the bed that night and this is what set patsy off.
Twlight: Funny, I don't recall L$mit ever discussing where he thinks it happened. Or the Ramseys...they don't discuss where they think it happened either. Just ST. Now that is something to think about.
Ned: Lou believes that JB was stunned gunned once to the face while she was sleeping in her bed, the intruder then carried her down to the room ( he must have closed the door behind him LOL, since Patsy said she threw it open the next morning) anyhow, he then believes that outside of the windowless room, near the boiler room, JB was garroted and molested, While this was occuring the JB woke screamed and was stunned gunned once again to the lower back. Perpetrator then cracked her in the skull and then hid the body. Even after the scream and hiding her body, he made his way back to the second floor to leave his novel on the spiral staircase. He even took the time to neatly lay it out
Thing that strikes me is that Steve Thomas thinks it happened in her bathroom, and he has seen ALL the evidence.
Ned: Thomas also thinks JB wet the bed that night and this is what set patsy off.
Twlight: Funny, I don't recall L$mit ever discussing where he thinks it happened. Or the Ramseys...they don't discuss where they think it happened either. Just ST. Now that is something to think about.
Ned: Lou believes that JB was stunned gunned once to the face while she was sleeping in her bed, the intruder then carried her down to the room ( he must have closed the door behind him LOL, since Patsy said she threw it open the next morning) anyhow, he then believes that outside of the windowless room, near the boiler room, JB was garroted and molested, While this was occuring the JB woke screamed and was stunned gunned once again to the lower back. Perpetrator then cracked her in the skull and then hid the body. Even after the scream and hiding her body, he made his way back to the second floor to leave his novel on the spiral staircase. He even took the time to neatly lay it out
Nedthan Johns
New Member
Watching You: I think Myers knows the difference between fingernail gouges and petechia
Ned: I agree 100% Watching you.
JBR did not have flesh under her fingernails, which certainly would have been there if she had gouged the skin on her neck.
Ned: Absolutely true, not only that NONE of JBs marks to her neck or what appears to be a nail mark to her lower leg were ever swabbed. Another HUGE mistake by the Coroner. Everyone has their OWN DNA under their nails. There were NO pieces of skin found under JBs fingernails.
Also post mortem bodies swell, JB was dead for almost a full 24 hours before those photos were taken of her body. Perhaps more, since her body wasnt removed from the home until 8pm that day. The rope appears to have been pulled tighter than it actually had been. Rigor mortis had also set in, setting the skin. Take a look at strangled victims and you will find the wounds are far worse then what we seen in JBs photos.
Toth:
But there was no evidence of any such event taking place in the bathroom. No blood, no brain matter, no scalp material
Ned: LOL Toth. you know at times I think you could be Lou by your statements, but this one clearly tells me you are not. There was NO blood, brain matter nor scalp material found in the basement either. JBs skull was not lacerated, meaning it was not an open wound. There would be NO blood, NO brain matter, nor NO scalp material anywhere in the house
Ned: I agree 100% Watching you.
JBR did not have flesh under her fingernails, which certainly would have been there if she had gouged the skin on her neck.
Ned: Absolutely true, not only that NONE of JBs marks to her neck or what appears to be a nail mark to her lower leg were ever swabbed. Another HUGE mistake by the Coroner. Everyone has their OWN DNA under their nails. There were NO pieces of skin found under JBs fingernails.
Also post mortem bodies swell, JB was dead for almost a full 24 hours before those photos were taken of her body. Perhaps more, since her body wasnt removed from the home until 8pm that day. The rope appears to have been pulled tighter than it actually had been. Rigor mortis had also set in, setting the skin. Take a look at strangled victims and you will find the wounds are far worse then what we seen in JBs photos.
Toth:
But there was no evidence of any such event taking place in the bathroom. No blood, no brain matter, no scalp material
Ned: LOL Toth. you know at times I think you could be Lou by your statements, but this one clearly tells me you are not. There was NO blood, brain matter nor scalp material found in the basement either. JBs skull was not lacerated, meaning it was not an open wound. There would be NO blood, NO brain matter, nor NO scalp material anywhere in the house
Nedthan Johns
New Member
Toth: Even if no external bleeding, there was still no scalp material, no hair, no impact on the scalp that matched a surface in the bathroom... and your scenario would have them calmly sitting down after all this and concocting a note full of movie phrases instead of a simple short note.
Ned: Toth my dear, there was none found in the basement either. None found on the flashlight found at the crime scene, although it had been wiped clean of prints. The impact on the skull has yet to match anything found in the home that we know of, but a flat surface certainly hasnt been ruled out. Due to the nature and severity of the fracture and to its location, it seems to me more likely the blow came to the front and right side of the head, therefore perhaps making it less likely she was bashed against the tile bathroom wall or hard cement floor, however, she could have been leaning over the bath to get her hair washed, there are many different scenarios that could still be possible. I have a problem with the way JBs hair was fixed that night, wasnt she wearing blue hair ties in her hair? 2 pony tails one on top of the other? This is where the Whites x mas photos taken that night come into play and are very important to answer how JB was dressed that evening. She was reported as wearing black velvet pants and a sequined star shirt. Then why the blue hair ties? Patsy is all about show and presence so I have a hard time believing that on Christmas when the Ramseys were having dinner with close friends with others present, that Patsy would allow JB to arrive unmatched .
Regarding the passages in the ransom note. The Ramseys had 5 plus hours to write it. Who said they were calm? The writing on the note is shaky. The person who wrote it had written a practice one before starting that one. Did they have a change of heart and decide not to address Patsy? Awfully caring intruder, even had time and heart to cover the child, and place out her favorite nightie, was even thoughtful enough to lay the ransom note out page by page to make it easier of the parents to read it that morning, not to mention making sure they practically stepped on it on their way down for their morning coffee. Hey they even latched the windowless room door, so Burke didnt accidentally find his sister. Gee what a guy. He did everything but clean up their house. No wait a minute, he may have cleaned JBs bowl after he fed her pineapple, LOL
Ned: Toth my dear, there was none found in the basement either. None found on the flashlight found at the crime scene, although it had been wiped clean of prints. The impact on the skull has yet to match anything found in the home that we know of, but a flat surface certainly hasnt been ruled out. Due to the nature and severity of the fracture and to its location, it seems to me more likely the blow came to the front and right side of the head, therefore perhaps making it less likely she was bashed against the tile bathroom wall or hard cement floor, however, she could have been leaning over the bath to get her hair washed, there are many different scenarios that could still be possible. I have a problem with the way JBs hair was fixed that night, wasnt she wearing blue hair ties in her hair? 2 pony tails one on top of the other? This is where the Whites x mas photos taken that night come into play and are very important to answer how JB was dressed that evening. She was reported as wearing black velvet pants and a sequined star shirt. Then why the blue hair ties? Patsy is all about show and presence so I have a hard time believing that on Christmas when the Ramseys were having dinner with close friends with others present, that Patsy would allow JB to arrive unmatched .
Regarding the passages in the ransom note. The Ramseys had 5 plus hours to write it. Who said they were calm? The writing on the note is shaky. The person who wrote it had written a practice one before starting that one. Did they have a change of heart and decide not to address Patsy? Awfully caring intruder, even had time and heart to cover the child, and place out her favorite nightie, was even thoughtful enough to lay the ransom note out page by page to make it easier of the parents to read it that morning, not to mention making sure they practically stepped on it on their way down for their morning coffee. Hey they even latched the windowless room door, so Burke didnt accidentally find his sister. Gee what a guy. He did everything but clean up their house. No wait a minute, he may have cleaned JBs bowl after he fed her pineapple, LOL
Nedthan Johns
New Member
Toltec: Ned: Oh and by the way the quotes in the ransom note could have very easily be remembered by someone who had watched those movies, I for one remembered which movies they were from, when I read the note and they were pointed out.
The movie Ransom was a newly released film.
Toltec: John is called into the room and Patsy and John get into it. Patsy attempts to strike John with the flashlight and instead hits JonBenet. Then the cover-up starts.
Ned: Ahh thats where you lost me Toltec. This was a direct blow to the skull, I cant see how Patsy would be aiming for John and miss and hit JB. I do however believe that in the haste of the morning, JB most likely had not showered, and would have needed to bath before taking the long flight the next morning. With little time left to get ready in the morning, there may have been no other choice but to do it that night. With a strike that intense I believe it was a direct blow, and believe that if John was the intended victim, JB would have had to have been right in the line of fire. I dont believe JBs prior molestation was noticeable. Remember she had not been penially penetrated and even Dr. Bueff missed the signs of it and he admitted to examining her. I believe that INSIDE her vaginal walls there was clear signs she had been previously molested which included the recovery of an OLD splinter lodged in her vaginal wall.
The movie Ransom was a newly released film.
Toltec: John is called into the room and Patsy and John get into it. Patsy attempts to strike John with the flashlight and instead hits JonBenet. Then the cover-up starts.
Ned: Ahh thats where you lost me Toltec. This was a direct blow to the skull, I cant see how Patsy would be aiming for John and miss and hit JB. I do however believe that in the haste of the morning, JB most likely had not showered, and would have needed to bath before taking the long flight the next morning. With little time left to get ready in the morning, there may have been no other choice but to do it that night. With a strike that intense I believe it was a direct blow, and believe that if John was the intended victim, JB would have had to have been right in the line of fire. I dont believe JBs prior molestation was noticeable. Remember she had not been penially penetrated and even Dr. Bueff missed the signs of it and he admitted to examining her. I believe that INSIDE her vaginal walls there was clear signs she had been previously molested which included the recovery of an OLD splinter lodged in her vaginal wall.
Nedthan Johns
New Member
Toltec: JonBenet had a scalp contusion (bruise) that was as long as the fracture. Does anyone know if a contusion appears after a person is dead?
Ned: There is post mortem bruising however it has been said with the amount JB had that some experts came to the conclusion she was struck in the head FIRST. I too believe this is the most likely scenario, and a blow of that magnitude would certainly leave the child unconscious
I got an N64 that very same Christmas...and Super Mario 64 was the only game out there for this system. In the beginning of the game, Mario must fight a large Bomb which is tied with a chain around it's neck?
Ned: Interesting, Burke IMO can not be ruled out. But because of his age and frame, IMO makes a less likely suspect
Ned: There is post mortem bruising however it has been said with the amount JB had that some experts came to the conclusion she was struck in the head FIRST. I too believe this is the most likely scenario, and a blow of that magnitude would certainly leave the child unconscious
I got an N64 that very same Christmas...and Super Mario 64 was the only game out there for this system. In the beginning of the game, Mario must fight a large Bomb which is tied with a chain around it's neck?
Ned: Interesting, Burke IMO can not be ruled out. But because of his age and frame, IMO makes a less likely suspect
Nedthan Johns
New Member
Ivy: the damage incurred by the Maglite looked just like the damage on JonBenet's skull. I've never forgotten seeing Spitz's demonstration on TV and how impressive it was. Ever since, I've been almost completely sure that JonBenet was struck by the Maglite. The rubber rim would have protected the skin.
Ned: This was on TV? What show and how did I miss it? The flashlight is interesting because it most certainly could point to Ramsey involvement since they owned one just like it and couldnt find it. Was it left out on purpose or accidental? Someone took the time to wipe it clean of prints, but why leave the murder weapon in plain site? Perhaps because they thought it may not have been seen as such? And if it was the object used, why did Patsy or John chose to use one? I do have trouble with this one. The only possible scenario I can think of is that Patsy had retired to bed that night, but then that doesnt explain her full makeup in the morning. JB wet the bed and Patsy using the flashlight went to get her up to change her. The flashlight is a real who dun it. Because it actually suggests an intruder IMO, not only because that is an object one would most likely bring to kidnap or molest a child, but because it may have been the only murder weapon besides the rope to kill her. Why he just didnt strangle her, no one knows. If she screamed and he panicked a quick strike from that big of a flashlight could have done the job. But then why would an intruder take the time to clean the surface off and why wasnt there any evidence found on the flashlight? Perhaps this is a piece of evidence that may yield clues as forensics science becomes more advanced.
Ned: This was on TV? What show and how did I miss it? The flashlight is interesting because it most certainly could point to Ramsey involvement since they owned one just like it and couldnt find it. Was it left out on purpose or accidental? Someone took the time to wipe it clean of prints, but why leave the murder weapon in plain site? Perhaps because they thought it may not have been seen as such? And if it was the object used, why did Patsy or John chose to use one? I do have trouble with this one. The only possible scenario I can think of is that Patsy had retired to bed that night, but then that doesnt explain her full makeup in the morning. JB wet the bed and Patsy using the flashlight went to get her up to change her. The flashlight is a real who dun it. Because it actually suggests an intruder IMO, not only because that is an object one would most likely bring to kidnap or molest a child, but because it may have been the only murder weapon besides the rope to kill her. Why he just didnt strangle her, no one knows. If she screamed and he panicked a quick strike from that big of a flashlight could have done the job. But then why would an intruder take the time to clean the surface off and why wasnt there any evidence found on the flashlight? Perhaps this is a piece of evidence that may yield clues as forensics science becomes more advanced.
Nedthan Johns
New Member
Why Nutt: Great read on Sybil. If anyone here is interested in a good movie, just rented "Identity" with John Cusak and Roy Loyotta this weekend, excellent movie, that relates to MPD, but don't want to give away the movie. Worth renting
Watching you
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Toth
I don't know who ever said either of the Ramseys "calmly" sat down after killing their daughter and concocted a note. There is no way they calmly did anything. They would have been on an intense adrenaline rush, no doubt, but adrenaline rush does not necessarily mean loss of control or thought. The adrenaline rush is also known as "fight or flight" response, if I remember my terms correctly. Adrenaline pumps you up, gives you strength to do what you need to do. I would say the killer of JBR, and his/her accomplice, were quite capable of self-preservation that night and into the wee hours of the morning.
I have always believed Patsy Ramsey wrote the ransom note, but I do not believe she did it alone. I've pictured Patsy sitting at a counter with John pacing back and forth, the two of them in full collaberation in composing the note. The note is soooo Patsy, but after reading their book, DOI, I'm more convinced than ever that John contributed to the note. He's almost as big a drama queen as Patsy. The note, above all else, convinced me Patsy was involved. When she wrote it, she was hyped on adrenaline. She tried to disguise her handwriting, but the whole look of it is Patsy - the handwriting, the terms, the commas, the exclamation points. It's Patsy. It's so Patsy, her own mother claimed someone must have copied her handwriting when writing the note.
Short and simple? Patsy Ramsey? She is the queen of embellishment. Patsy always thinks more is better. Drama is her middle name. The ransom note was high drama to her and a dead giveaway as to its author.
I don't know who ever said either of the Ramseys "calmly" sat down after killing their daughter and concocted a note. There is no way they calmly did anything. They would have been on an intense adrenaline rush, no doubt, but adrenaline rush does not necessarily mean loss of control or thought. The adrenaline rush is also known as "fight or flight" response, if I remember my terms correctly. Adrenaline pumps you up, gives you strength to do what you need to do. I would say the killer of JBR, and his/her accomplice, were quite capable of self-preservation that night and into the wee hours of the morning.
I have always believed Patsy Ramsey wrote the ransom note, but I do not believe she did it alone. I've pictured Patsy sitting at a counter with John pacing back and forth, the two of them in full collaberation in composing the note. The note is soooo Patsy, but after reading their book, DOI, I'm more convinced than ever that John contributed to the note. He's almost as big a drama queen as Patsy. The note, above all else, convinced me Patsy was involved. When she wrote it, she was hyped on adrenaline. She tried to disguise her handwriting, but the whole look of it is Patsy - the handwriting, the terms, the commas, the exclamation points. It's Patsy. It's so Patsy, her own mother claimed someone must have copied her handwriting when writing the note.
Short and simple? Patsy Ramsey? She is the queen of embellishment. Patsy always thinks more is better. Drama is her middle name. The ransom note was high drama to her and a dead giveaway as to its author.
Imon128
Former Member
Agree, and once more, the need to save one's hiney would override the need to stay calm, IMO.
7kluz
New Member
Great job! However, I DO think that John was molesting JonBenét, or just beginning to when Patsy unexpectedly walked into the room to make a random check during her packing, maybe suspecting something, or just to simply get JonBenét up to potty.
She would have been furious, and may have had the Maglight in her hand so as to not have to turn on the lights after everyone else was (supposed to be) asleep... When she saw what was occuring, she may have swung the Maglight to hit John, missed and struck JonBenét.
Having known many people like Patsy, they would rather "cover it up" no matter what the cost or implications. JonBenét was already mortally wounded; why create a sex scandal at that point...?
That would explain the coldness toward each other before JonBenét's body was "found" by John. Incest is a very hard thing to deal with and who knows what a mother would do if she caught her child's father sexually abusing her child.
I believe that they then conspired (remember the "perfect life" Patsy wanted to portray) to NEVER snitch the other out and have stayed together, not out of love, but out of fear that one would betray the other if they didn't.
Edited to add -This Is Only My Opinion.
She would have been furious, and may have had the Maglight in her hand so as to not have to turn on the lights after everyone else was (supposed to be) asleep... When she saw what was occuring, she may have swung the Maglight to hit John, missed and struck JonBenét.
Having known many people like Patsy, they would rather "cover it up" no matter what the cost or implications. JonBenét was already mortally wounded; why create a sex scandal at that point...?
That would explain the coldness toward each other before JonBenét's body was "found" by John. Incest is a very hard thing to deal with and who knows what a mother would do if she caught her child's father sexually abusing her child.
I believe that they then conspired (remember the "perfect life" Patsy wanted to portray) to NEVER snitch the other out and have stayed together, not out of love, but out of fear that one would betray the other if they didn't.
Edited to add -This Is Only My Opinion.
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