What would you have done differently?

christine2448 said:
If you had been in charge of this investigation, what would you have done differently?

Please remember, I am on the fence, leaning toward intruder(s) (but not Karr)


1. Not have allowed JR to search the house.

2. Not have allowed ANYONE come in the house but LE/forensics until the investigation was completed.

3. Would have had PR , JR, and BR transported directly to the police station for questioning, any evidence collection that could possibly be done on their persons.

4. Would have collected everyone's clothing right there, before they were allowed to leave house.

5. Investigated the 38 + (from what I have heard) sex offenders in the area.

6. Investigated the burglaries going on in the area.

I can't think of anything else, these are the first things that come to mind.

I don't know who did this, but, LE sure did mess this up from the get go, IMO.
The first thing I would have done differently, if I was in charge of the investigation, would have been to ask everyone but the mom, dad, son and their pastor to leave. In other words,there wouldn't have been a bunch of people running around contaminating a crime scene.

I would have made sure the parents were questioned pretty much nonstop that day.

I would have made sure the woman running around dusting off the finger printing dust was kicked out of the house. :doh: (as per Steve Thomas's book.)


I would have told fellow officers to not touch the body except to check for vitals.

I would have had seasoned officers on board.
I would have never let JR and PR leave that house without being searched.

Most importantly I would have made sure that my dept and I lead the investigation! Not the Ramsey's and their lawyers.
 
Hyatt said:
I can't believe this!: Anderson Cooper just had Trip DeMuth (sp?) on. Remember him from the Steve Thomas book? So, though this guy doesn't appear to buy that Karr is guilty, he goes on and on about "back then the DA's office (he was chief prosecutor) was prohibited from following other leads beyond the Ramseys with their own detectives like .... Lou Smit." If memory serves, Trip was one of the major figures cozying up to the Ramseys at the time and transmitting police investigation information to the Ramsey team. Can someone confirm whether I have that right?

Goes on about police mistakes vs the DA's office. It was the DA's office that killed this case back then with the help of folk like ... Lou Smit and Trip . It bugs me that CNN chooses THIS guy to comment on the case. The media always gets its information from the wrong sources.

JMO
I have seen This trip fellow everywhere on telly .He bugs me also.Not sure why just think he seems inept and biased.Probably wants his 15 mins over again.
 
philamena said:
The first thing I would have done differently, if I was in charge of the investigation, would have been to ask everyone but the mom, dad, son and their pastor to leave. In other words,there wouldn't have been a bunch of people running around contaminating a crime scene.

I would have made sure the parents were questioned pretty much nonstop that day.

I would have made sure the woman running around dusting off the finger printing dust was kicked out of the house. :doh: (as per Steve Thomas's book.)


I would have told fellow officers to not touch the body except to check for vitals.

I would have had seasoned officers on board.
I would have never let JR and PR leave that house without being searched.

Most importantly I would have made sure that my dept and I lead the investigation! Not the Ramsey's and their lawyers.
All of the above but the Ramsays or there 'fan' club would not have been allowed back in to collect any belongins until all processing of the scene was 100% over. Here we had a 6 yr old girl taken off the street on her bike, police were so'suspicious' of the mum and Dad they 'bugged' the phone. After an intense investigation a pervert pedo was caught. What he did to that child was absolutely digusting.Really sick.But my point is that police worked 24/7 and got him through damn hard work. They were not swayed and there were no favours or allowances. It was a long, drawn out case. he came unglued when he went to a shrink with a sack full of maggots.The little girl was called Sheree Beasley and she died a really awful death. As posted above only seasoned , trusted officers should be onboard these horrific cases.To many 'politics' came into play in the Ramsay case.
 
"I am wondering at what point a Ramsey arrest would have been plausible."

Any time.


"I would not leak information."

Right! close to the vest.

"Remember him from the Steve Thomas book? So, though this guy doesn't appear to buy that Karr is guilty, he goes on and on about "back then the DA's office (he was chief prosecutor) was prohibited from following other leads beyond the Ramseys with their own detectives like .... Lou Smit." If memory serves, Trip was one of the major figures cozying up to the Ramseys at the time and transmitting police investigation information to the Ramsey team. Can someone confirm whether I have that right?"

You've got it! Trip, before ANY evidence had come in, decided on his own, that since HE couldn't kill HIS daughter, no one else could either! No one prevented anyone from following other leads. Henry Lee has said many times that every scenario was checked out.

Not only did he transmit info to them, he WORKED for their LAWYER after he left the DA's office! At the FBI meeting, he openly mocked the police and their evidence, which the Feds said was totally inappropriate! He was taken OFF the case because of his bias toward them, yet all the outlets are claiming he knows the case intimately. Last night, for example, he claimed Wendy Murphy's info about the DNA was inaccurate. But Michael Kane, the GJ prosecutor, who came onto the case at the time DeMyth was removed, worked FAR more closely with the police with FAR more evidence than he did and for a much longer time (1998-2002) is the one who TOLD Wendy that info!

But no one asks HIM! Or anyone else from the actual investigation! So guys like DeMyth can spin themselves up like big experts. Doesn't upset me...MUCH!
 
Hyatt said:
I think that Linda Arndt (?) was unjustifiably crucified for the first few hours of this case, although, after reading her deposition in her case against Boulder, I don't come to the same conclusions that she did.

I get tired of this old defense strategy of "contamination" of the crime scene and the expectation of the "pristine" in this area, which is totally unrealistic. If Lin Wood (and John Ramsey) are running around shooting their mouths off about this being a DNA case - you can bet that the opposite is true. This, by the way has always been proven to be a good rule of thumb - whatever that team says IS, I have found in the past to be precisely what it IS NOT. They call it a DNA case because they know that one would expect their own DNA to be all over that house and thereofore it would be hard to convict THEM on DNA.

When Arndt and others showed up at that house, it was on the basis of the belief that the Ramseys were victims of a kidnapping, so it would not have entered most people's minds, I think, to immediately treat them as suspects. (AFTER the Ramsey case, given their precedent, cops probably would immediately conceive of that possibility.) I do think that all friends and victims' advocates (who called these victim advocate people in anyway?) ought to have been sent home promptly. Comfort should have waited at least until the presumed kidnapper's call. I also think that in such a case it is normal to request that the parents search the house because only they can alert the police to changes in the environment - objects taken or moved etc. In retrospect one wonders why Patsy didn't get off the couch and drama and ALSO go searching for clues, changes, missing clothing etc.

So now, JR comes up the stairs with the body. At THAT point everything changes BUT he has already moved the body so damaged the crime scene, so it matters little that Arndt places the body somewhere because what is she supposed to do? Tell him to freeze on the spot indefinitely? I mean, while it has been said that the first officers may have already entertained suspicions about the family because of the weird ransom note, the weirdness of that note only became totally obvious when the body was found in the house. So, I think that the police team was criticized unjustly up to that point.

I believe that social prejudice probably played a role here. The Ramsey's obvious wealth could well have intimidated the LE people into not demanding certain things like the departure of all non-family members, but those of you who have heard the Ramseys speak must admit that they are not exactly push-overs for complying to authorities, let alone mere requests. And let's not forget that friends almost as quickly began suggesting legal representation, which JR was no doubt only to eager to quickly get since the last thing he would have wanted would have been for ANY family member to bring down the scandal which subsequently ruined his then-successful career.

Subsequent to that, several LE people have complained about the cozy relationship the higher-ups established with the Ramseys and their expensive and no doubt locally-influential legal team, giving them information, making concessions, making few or no reasonable requests. Let's face it - the higher-ups of this case were scared to death of the Ramseys and their attorneys long arms and THAT was what compromised this investigation.

You know what is a total laugh? They had SO many reasons to arrest the Ramseys at the time and yet did not for fear of not having enough of a case. And NOW, when they have virtually NOTHING on this Karr guy, an arrest is made. What can I say? Money matters and IMO it hasn't ceased mattering in this case. So who "fumbled" this case? Not the lower investigative branches but the higher-ups with connections with the influential R lawyers and/fear of Ramsey & their lawyers' wrath.

The "investigative bungling" did not happen THEN. It is happening NOW.

JMO
Great post, Hyatt!
 
I think the biggest mistake of all was LE not searching the house completely when they arrived. They did the cursory search, I know, and they were in the basement. But why didn't they open the wine cellar door? :waitasec:

In any missing child case - ransom not or not - protocol calls for locking down the crime scene and doing a thorough search. In that regard they botched the evidence collection process from the very first minute and allowed massive contamination.
 
Hyatt said:
I can't believe this!: Anderson Cooper just had Trip DeMuth (sp?) on. Remember him from the Steve Thomas book? So, though this guy doesn't appear to buy that Karr is guilty, he goes on and on about "back then the DA's office (he was chief prosecutor) was prohibited from following other leads beyond the Ramseys with their own detectives like .... Lou Smit." If memory serves, Trip was one of the major figures cozying up to the Ramseys at the time and transmitting police investigation information to the Ramsey team. Can someone confirm whether I have that right?

Goes on about police mistakes vs the DA's office. It was the DA's office that killed this case back then with the help of folk like ... Lou Smit and Trip . It bugs me that CNN chooses THIS guy to comment on the case. The media always gets its information from the wrong sources.
JMO
LOL, DeMuth actually spoke of Smit as the Ramseys' 'own' detective??
But wasn't Smit hired by the prosecution? Interesting Freudian slip by DeMuth, for the prosecution was indeed so unconfrontational to the Ramseys, with Smit even being a fervent supporter, that indeed one could call him the Ramseys' own detective.
Trip DeMuth is a joke. He eagerly swallowed the intruder theory because he believed (and tried to lecture Steve Thomas about it, but Thomas was unimpressed, confronting him with grim statistics pointing to the contrary) that "parents could not do this to their child". And this was no layperson speaking, mind you, but a chief trial deputy working for the DA. Incredible. No wonder that with people like DeMuth working in LE in Boulder, the Ramseys got away with it.

I don't remember if DeMuth leaked info to Team Ramsey, but I wouldn't put it past him.
 
doublejack said:
I think the biggest mistake of all was LE not searching the house completely when they arrived. They did the cursory search, I know, and they were in the basement. But why didn't they open the wine cellar door? :waitasec:

In any missing child case - ransom not or not - protocol calls for locking down the crime scene and doing a thorough search. In that regard they botched the evidence collection process from the very first minute and allowed massive contamination.
Exactly my opinion also. That house is huge. It should've been thoroughly searched and not just assume the "kidnapper" wasn't still there, lying in wait somewhere in the house, especially the basement. I still don't understand John R. going into the wine cellar and then carrying the body upstairs rather than call out to LE to come down there.
 
Well the ideal situation would have been for this crime to have been committed in a state where they actually KNOW how to investigate crimes :crazy:

Okay I know not nice to Boulder PD.

That being said with all the mistakes they made, I would have immediately have escorted both parents directly to the police department seperated them and interrogated them for hours.

That alone would have made all the difference in the world, because I believe Patsy would have cracked
 
"Trip DeMuth is a joke. He eagerly swallowed the intruder theory because he believed (and tried to lecture Steve Thomas about it, but Thomas was unimpressed, confronting him with grim statistics pointing to the contrary) that "parents could not do this to their child". And this was no layperson speaking, mind you, but a chief trial deputy working for the DA. Incredible. No wonder that with people like DeMuth working in LE in Boulder, the Ramseys got away with it."

Couldn't have said it better myself!
 

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