What's eating you alive re this case?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by madeleine, May 31, 2012.

?

what would you like to know?what's bugging you?

  1. who did it

    119 vote(s)
    40.6%
  2. why he/she/they did it

    56 vote(s)
    19.1%
  3. how did it happen

    118 vote(s)
    40.3%
  1. reintarnation

    reintarnation New Member

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    That's true - I hadn't considered that angle!

    And johnjay, no, I am not aware of anything relating to Burke's relationship with the dog.
     
  2. Heymom

    Heymom New Member

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    As to what is eating me alive....I only wish that the BPD hadn't been hoodwinked into allowing the crime scene to be overrun that morning. How was Linda Arndt ever left alone on the premises, given the suggestion (by Burke?) and then been unable to stop John from fetching JonBenet's body up from the basement? Then she herself picks up the body and moves it to the Christmas tree? And allows further contamination from blankets and from Patsy throwing herself onto JonBenet's body? What basic police work should have been done in the first place, but wasn't, thanks to the retrospectively brilliant idea to turn the whole thing into a kidnap movie....It worked better than John and Patsy could ever have dreamed that it would.

    I do wonder now, when John was actually let in on what had happened. I used to think he was in on the whole thing, but he actually handed the police Patsy's pad that she had written the ransom letter on - and that would have been a hell of a mistake to make had he realized what he was doing. But then I thought, if he *didn't* know, why did he not confront Patsy once he figured it all out and realized JonBenet had been killed?? I know my husband would never have kept his mouth shut for one instant if he thought something fishy was going on. Whether anyone else was there or not. So I am just not sure about John's involvement in the cover up.

    And I am one who believes that most of what was done to JBR, was done by her brother. The cord around the neck, the sexual experimentation with the paint brush, the train track poking - it all seems like what a kid would do, if his victim weren't moving or resisting. I do not believe he understood what he had done, but I also do not believe that he was sad about any of it. He may have felt at the time that she deserved what she got, even if he didn't realize that he had killed her. And if he did realize it, then he still does.
     
  3. singularity

    singularity New Member

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    Yes a pristine crime scene would have done wonders for this case although there still would have been a huge chance for BPD to botch it.

    I actually don't think they/we would ever know what the original crime scene looked like even if she had been found at 6 am as IMO it was continually evolving from the moment she was murdered until she was found. Hell, it actually evolved four times in minutes from John bringing her upstairs, John sitting her down, Arndt picking her up and moving her, and then John and Patsy touching her while the group stood around her saying a prayer. Imagine how much it evolved throughout that night/morning.


    IMO he was in on it that very night but if not, he most certainly knew Patsy's involvement the nanosecond he read that note. I am in the minority group that believes a domestic dispute likely occurred during or immediately after the note was written. A lot of people(including me) believe Burke knows more than he's ever told and IF a dispute occurred that night, he most certainly heard it taking place.

    JOhn handing them the notepads is a head scratcher either way. Its possible he didn't know the paper could be traced to such an extent, simply forgot in the heat of the moment, or wasn't even sure exactly which pad had been used since they had more than one.....although him taking a picture of the notepad in view might beg to differ.


    Edit:

    One of my many issues with aspects of BDI. One scenario is that he assaulted her, went back to bed or was told to go back to bed, he has no idea he injured her to that extent, John and Patsy "finish her off" and stage the elaborate scene, and he somehow has no idea he is to blame for the kidnapping/murder. Do people really believe he was incapable of putting two and two together? He cant figure out that there's a link between his assault and the bizarre and highly unlikely chance that an intruder just happens to break in, "kidnap", and then murder her a few hours later?

    He would connect the dots immediately.
     
  4. Heymom

    Heymom New Member

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    I think, even as much as I know about psychopathology, that it's hard for me to really consider that 9-year-old Burke could have done the entire thing, including the strangulation, the sexual assault, the whole scene, because that would really mean that he is a deviant and disturbed person. And that JR and PR covered up his deviancy in the interest of their reputation and image and maybe thinking that they could fix him without having him removed from their home. It makes me wonder what they'd have done if they'd had one more child in the home. Would they have protected Burke in that case, or the other child *from* Burke?

    Did any of you watch that Youtube show about children who murder? The little girl? That seriously freaked me out.
     
  5. johnjay

    johnjay New Member

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    Yes, that's what I'm wondering about. Especially since JBR picked out the dog.
     
  6. expat79

    expat79 New Member

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    The #1 thing "eating me alive" is why both BR and JB were having bedwetting issues, and why BR developed his fecal smearing habits in the first place. I've never heard of a kid doing this, and when I googled it, it seems to indicate sexual abuse.

    Was someone abusing BR? And JB? And if so, who?

    OTG once mentioned in passing that he suspected BR was being abused by a relative, according to something he read.

    Does anyone know what OTG was referring to? OTG, I need your help! :) Where did you find this info?
     
  7. mauidreemn

    mauidreemn Former Member

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    Bedwetting was a family issue. The older Ramsey kids had this same problem.
     
  8. Linda7NJ

    Linda7NJ Active Member

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    I know many children with reactive attachment disorder present with flat affect, no remorse or empathy - perhaps Burke was at a critical age when Patsy battled cancer, felt abandoned by her and then to make matters worse - living with JonBenet musta been like competing with movie star.

    We know he did have a butt load of therapy and it was not because he was devastated by her death, that's obvious in his early interview clips.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  9. fedfan4life

    fedfan4life New Member

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    You need to substantiate that statement.
     
  10. mauidreemn

    mauidreemn Former Member

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  11. reintarnation

    reintarnation New Member

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    Yeah, you put in a late night mauidreemn!

    I'm refreshed, so here we go:

    [FONT=&quot]TT: And just on this, just a little bit, JonBenet wet the bed every once and awhile?[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: Yeah.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: About how often would that occur?[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: Oh, maybe once a week or something.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: Ok.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: If I just didn’t take her to the potty and make her go to the potty before bedtime, she very likely would wet the bed.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: Ok. You have any idea about, has this been going on for how long? Any time that she broken and didn’t have any bed wetting problems and then started back up or anything like that.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: No, no, she just, I mean I’ve had her in pull-ups until very recently. I kind of thought it might be better, I mean pull-ups and those pamper things are so absorbent, that you can’t you know, the child can’t feel if they’re wet or not. So I thought well it might just be better if she felt wet than being…[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: (Inaudible)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: Yeah. But she had a lot of dry nights, but she would wet the bed probably once a week.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: When she wet the bed, would she come up and tell you guys, or would she just crawl onto the other bed, crawl into Burke’s spare bed, what was the routine if she actually wet the bed?[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: Well, ah, sometimes she would get up and get into the other bed or sometimes she really wouldn’t wake up and until morning when she normally would wake up and maybe she’d change her nightgown or something and I’d find her things and pajamas in the bathroom floors and…[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: OK. Is this something you guys (inaudible) about at all?[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: No, cause I mean, all of, Burke wore pull-ups, you know till he was, at night, you know. Till he was fairly old. And Melinda was, we didn’t even have pull-ups back then, she wet the bed till she was, I mean at least when we were married, she was 8 then. So I didn’t see anything, and a lot of our friends, I mean, and Matthew use to wear pull-ups, you know, so …[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: So, it wasn’t anything out of the ordinary.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: Uh-huh, no.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: OK. How did John feel about this, did he have any reason to…[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: I don’t know if he even knew.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: OK. This was something that you took care of?[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: Uh-huh.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: OK. When JonBenet would wet the bed weekly, who took care of the sheets? Is that something Linda had to take care of? How often, I guess, who would even clean the sheets, to be more specific.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: Well, she normally changed the beds weekly, but typically, it the, as seen as, you know I, Linda didn’t come in till 9 o’clock But typically, I would strip the bed, you know, put them in the washer or something.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: OK.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: Before she got there.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: Do you remember back in ’94, typical doctor’s visit, you fill out all those forms, making some sort of a notation, on one of Dr. Beuf’s forms about bed-wetting and soiling. That was kind of a concern, you remember anything?[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: No, before was when I was having chemotherapy. I don’t remember. Susanne took them to the doctor a lot then. My housekeeper, a nanny sort of. I don’t remember. I mean if…[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]TT: Do you recall filling out these so-called, yes/no question type forms back then?[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]PR: If I saw it I might remember it.[/FONT]
     
  12. LilySweet

    LilySweet New Member

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    The father wasn't crying when he carried her upstairs and set her down on the floor. The forensic pathologist(?) said her vaginal opening was twice as wide as a normal 6 year olds', and another examiner said if she had been brought to the hospital emergency room, the trauma to her lady parts would have gotten her father arrested. All of these things reported in newspapers by people who did the autopsy.
     
  13. k-mac

    k-mac Well-Known Member

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    find this another pathetic out and out lie from PR.
    any family member of a bed wetter knows all to well the smell of urine kinda hangs around the person with the problem. ESPECIALLY if mum isnt all too up on washing and hygiene. which i still find disgusting about how complacent PR really was. maybe it was more to do with the wee the poo its all beneath her.
    she acknowledges in her deposition that she doesnt know when JBR last bathed. like really?? a six year old with toileting dramas has a smell problem. i havent even started on the poo!!!
    i'm not a fastitous mother by all means but wee/poo stinks and it is not ok.
    my mind boggles as to how a mother could be so caught up in attention to detail on the outside but could neglect a beautiful little girl being groomed for huge physical success under the fancy clothes..... i mean it baffles me to think ( and i hate that i do, guess its the mumsy in me ) in those videos of gorgeous preened JBR strutting around underneath in stinky wee poo stained undies???
     
  14. KentuckyKaren

    KentuckyKaren Member

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    I seem to remember reading somewhere in a thread that when JR came up from "finding" JBR in the basement, he said something like "He didn't mean to kill her, he wrapped her in a blanket..." Am I imagining this or was it stated on one of the Websleuths' threads? If this is complete nonsense then I guess I have started having dreams/nightmares about this thing!
     
  15. otg

    otg Well-Known Member

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    You didn't dream it, KentuckyKaren.
     
  16. BoldBear

    BoldBear Member

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    If you bring me evidence I can't deny, I'll tell you I knew about it; otherwise, I don't remember.

    Officer. Officer. My child's been murdered.
    Can you tell me what happened, mam?
    Oh, no. I don't remember. You'll need to talk to my attorney. He'll need your written questions in advance and any supporting evidence you have before I can answer.

    I'm really starting to understand the contempt some people have for John and Patsy. If anyone I loved was found murdered, you wouldn't be able to stop me from hounding the investigators. I'd tell them more about myself than they ever wanted to know.
     
  17. Casketkitten

    Casketkitten New Member

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    I am starting to get the feeling "like Mother like Son". I wonder now if she was able to just turn herself off in that basement room that night, blank out of her mind that she was staging the rape/murder of her daughter to cover up for her batshit crazy boy. Like Scarlett O'Hara; "I'll think about it tomorrow!"

    I wonder now if batshit crazy just runs right down her family tree?
     
  18. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    Yes, that's exactly what Marc Klaas, Brenda Van Dam and Erin Runnion thought!
     
  19. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    I wouldn't doubt it. Look at her mother and sister.
     
  20. Frigga

    Frigga New Member

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    Oh yes, I'm pretty sure it does. I can't help but wonder though if it was also a combination of genes from both as well?

    Does John have siblings? What do we know about his mother? Didn't his father marry John's first wife's mother?

    Anyone know what the deal is with JR's genes?
     

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