What's eating you alive re this case?

[BB71]

I'm not aware of Burke having confirmed that.
Yes. I saw an interview or transcript of one where he contradicted what his parents said.
LE said bowl of fruit on kitchen island. Parents said they came home and went to bed, had eaten at party but not afterward.

I'm not aware of Burke having been diagnosed with autism.

Pretty clear he is on the spectrum. Have you seen his interviews as a kid and now? I have 18 yrs in the business, and may have “read through the lines” in regard to what family/friends/LE have said on the subject.

What kids do you hang out with?
Ha ha. Some of the details seemed like child’s play. He would not have had the strength for certain tasks.


Right. No need whatsoever to create an elaborate cover-up.

So you don’t think he’s guilty? What’s your theory?

 

[Swirlz]

So you don’t think he’s guilty? What’s your theory?

I think we're dealing with a fairly typical fatal child abuse scenario, not significantly unlike the hundreds of others that occur every year and that the perpetrator was, as it almost always is when a child is killed in the home, a parent.

 

[Swirlz]

Have you seen his interviews as a kid and now?

Those interviews of Burke as a little boy were almost too painful for me to watch. The questions were brutal in my opinion. I saw a typical little boy just doing the best he could under stressful circumstances.

The police detective and later on the mental health professional who conducted those interviews both concluded that Burke had no knowledge of or information about JonBenet's death.

All I saw on Dr. Phil was a young person who was extremely shy and trying to be polite. I get it that other people interpreted it differently.

Try watching interviews of John and Patsy. In one John mispronounces JonBenet's name.

 

[BB71]

(Deleted duplicate post. My apologies.)

 

[BB71]

I think we're dealing with a fairly typical fatal child abuse scenario, not significantly unlike the hundreds of others that occur every year and that the perpetrator was, as it almost always is when a child is killed in the home, a parent.

Quite possibly. I looked at the statistics for crime committed by those with autism. While the number of assaults is higher, homicide is not. However, people on the spectrum are not always charged for their crimes.

 

[Userid]

Quite possibly. I looked at the statistics for crime committed by those with autism. While the number of assaults is higher, homicide is not. However, people on the spectrum are not always charged for their crimes.

BR was never diagnosed with autism and/or being on the spectrum. Nervously smiling in a TV interview doesn't make him autistic.

 

[BB71]

BR was never diagnosed with autism and/or being on the spectrum. Nervously smiling in a TV interview doesn't make him autistic.

This is not a question for me. I am not sure how to prove it from an evidenciary standpoint. He went to a special school, he does not associate with people directly for work. His wife seems
like she takes care of him, is protective. Whether innocent or not, he is understandably camera shy after this traumatic event. Someone said he was acting like a normal kid in interviews after his sister’s death. Why isn’t he upset?
If parents were abusive, why hasn’t Burke mentioned it?

 

[Userid]

This is not a question for me. I am not sure how to prove it from an evidenciary standpoint. He went to a special school, he does not associate with people directly for work. His wife seems
like she takes care of him, is protective. Whether innocent or not, he is understandably camera shy after this traumatic event. Someone said he was acting like a normal kid in interviews after his sister’s death. Why isn’t he upset?
If parents were abusive, why hasn’t Burke mentioned it?

If it's not a question for you, why do you keep implying it (that he was autistic) with no real evidence?

What "special school" did he go to?

He doesn't "associate with people from work" because he works remotely.

Children process traumatic events differently than adults. The fact he wasn't bawling after his sister's death in an interview (I stress, an interview -- not behind closed doors) means absolutely nothing.

We don't know that his parents were abusive, but if they were, do you really need to ask? It's obvious he wouldn't want to admit it publicly if he and/or his sister were abused by his parents.

 

[Swirlz]

Someone said he was acting like a normal kid in interviews after his sister’s death. Why isn’t he upset?

From Steve Thomas' JonBenet Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation (paperback, pg 88)

Referring to John Ramsey:

I would often consider the visible agony he endured on the death of Beth in comparison with his almost businesslike response to the murder of JonBenet.

A family trait maybe?

 

[Cottonstar]

There was a golf club propped against the kitchen island next to the bowl of fruit that the parents insisted she never ate (partially digested pineapple found in stomach at autopsy), but Burke confirmed she had gotten up in the night and eaten.

Where do you get stuff like this?

 

[BB71]

Where do you get stuff like this?

Where do you get stuff like this?

I will attempt to substantiate at a later date. The golfclub was in a dramatization perhaps, but murder weapon was something like it. May have been in interior photos of Ramsay home. It may have also in the acct (story/book) by one of the officers on scene.

The other points have been addressed elsewhere.

 

[WildWest]

Mike Helgoth's possible participation in this case.

 

[Userid]

One thing that has always bothered me: the broken glass in the train room.

I don't believe in the intruder theory, but the small piece of glass that was found on the suitcase underneath the broken window -- that puzzles me still.

JR's explanation of why that glass was broken doesn't make sense, as he said he had to take his pants off and enter through there months back because he locked himself out -- but if that window was broken the night JBR was murdered, and whatever broke it was removed from the window well (a toy, etc.), how would the cobwebs still remain? There have been conflicting reports (from two documentaries I've seen) saying that leaf debris was somehow "manipulated" in the window well. Assuming that it was manipulated by one of JR and/or PR, again, how was it manipulated without disturbing the cobwebs? The only way would be if it was manipulated from the grate access outside; not from inside.

I remember hearing about a psychic that said she strongly felt JBR's presence in that window well area; that's always stuck with me.

I wonder if JBR broke that window that night, and that is why JR lied about it. He needed to distance the window from the police because it was key to what happened that night.

 

[kaykay543]

One thing that has always bothered me: the broken glass in the train room.

I don't believe in the intruder theory, but the small piece of glass that was found on the suitcase underneath the broken window -- that puzzles me still.

JR's explanation of why that glass was broken doesn't make sense, as he said he had to take his pants off and enter through there months back because he locked himself out -- but if that window was broken the night JBR was murdered, and whatever broke it was removed from the window well (a toy, etc.), how would the cobwebs still remain? There have been conflicting reports (from two documentaries I've seen) saying that leaf debris was somehow "manipulated" in the window well. Assuming that it was manipulated by one of JR and/or PR, again, how was it manipulated without disturbing the cobwebs? The only way would be if it was manipulated from the grate access outside; not from inside.

I remember hearing about a psychic that said she strongly felt JBR's presence in that window well area; that's always stuck with me.

I wonder if JBR broke that window that night, and that is why JR lied about it. He needed to distance the window from the police because it was key to what happened that night.

The glass was found and put on the suitcase by FW. You have to remember that this family was not a neat and clean family by any means. I find it totally plausible that there was still broken glass on the floor from the window being broken over the summer. IMO the window is a big red herring and has nothing to do with the murder

 

[Userid]

The glass was found and put on the suitcase by FW. You have to remember that this family was not a neat and clean family by any means. I find it totally plausible that there was still broken glass on the floor from the window being broken over the summer. IMO the window is a big red herring and has nothing to do with the murder

Source please? I thought glass was placed on the window ledge; not the suitcase.

You could be right about the window being a red herring, but I just never brought JR's explanation of how the window was broken. Why would he lie about it, if it wasn't important to lie about?

 

[UKGuy]

Source please? I thought glass was placed on the window ledge; not the suitcase.

You could be right about the window being a red herring, but I just never brought JR's explanation of how the window was broken. Why would he lie about it, if it wasn't important to lie about?

Userid
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, by Lawrence Schiller, Excerpt

At 6:00 A . M . the telephone awakened Cliff Gaston. It was Patsy Ramsey. Priscilla took the call, and within minutes the Whites were dressed and on their way to the Ramseys’ house. When they arrived, the police and John Fernie were already there. Patsy was on the floor, hysterical, and her hus- band was trying to comfort her. It was still dark outside.

White told the detectives that he had been there only a few minutes when he started to search the house. Alone, he went down to the basement, found some of the lights on, and started calling out JonBenét’s name. It was so cluttered down there—with boxes stacked everywhere and shelves overflowing with odds and ends—that he could hardly see any open spaces where she might be.

He started in Burke’s train and hobby room, where he saw a suitcase sitting under a broken window. On the floor under the window, he found small pieces of glass. He placed some of them on the windowsill. Then he moved the suitcase a few feet to get a closer look at the window. White said he was sure the window was closed but unlatched.

After he left the train room, he turned right, into the boiler room. At the back of the room, he said, he saw a door to what the Ramseys called the wine cellar. He turned the closed wooden latch and opened the door. The room was pitch-black, he said. He didn’t enter, and he saw nothing. When he couldn’t find a light switch, he closed the door and went back upstairs.

He did not remember whether or not he relatched the door. Later, when White saw John Fernie, he told him that a window downstairs had been punched open. The police wondered why White had not seen JonBenét’s body and later Ramsey had, since they both stood at the same spot after opening the door to the wine cellar.

BBM: Bingo !


JonBenet : Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas, Excerpt

White went downstairs. The lights were on, and shadows danced in the big basement. A small broken window in a large room where a model railroad was laid out caught his attention and on the floor beneath the window he found a piece of glass which he placed on the ledge. He dropped to his hands and knees , searching for other pieces, and moved a suitcase in doing so.

John Ramsey patently visited before Fleet White as Fleet White left the suitcase aligned perpendicular to the wall which is different to that of John Ramsey !

This is an occassion where a change in the forensic evidence was helpful as John Ramsey was ignorant that Fleet White had already looked into the wine-cellar and never saw JonBenet !

Suggesting John Ramsey felt confident enough to create his own agenda or to us Smoke & Mirrors regarding stuff found in the basement?

IMO John Ramsey is continually tweaking and amending the basement evidence to suit the prevailing theory.

In other words he is verbally adding to the staging, I think the professionals term this as Framing these days, e.g. Donald Trump calling out Crooked Hillary, cue chanting: Lock Her Up, etc.

John Ramsey continues this tactic to the present, consider Dr. Phils claim to Burke Ramsey that your father used the flashlight to put you to bed.

You might argue he does it for the ratings and the litigation payback opportunities, but he was doing this before he left the house the day JonBenet was found.

Why would he lie about it, if it wasn't important to lie about?

Because he has skin in the game and wants to preserve his reduced reputation, consider the Republicans rejecting him for running, just what was he thinking? He must have thought my money can buy me anything, but they sidelined him, he is now Persona Non Grata in US moneyed society, no better that OJ, both generating revenue from media interviews.

.

 

[Cottonstar]

One thing that has always bothered me: the broken glass in the train room.

I don't believe in the intruder theory, but the small piece of glass that was found on the suitcase underneath the broken window -- that puzzles me still.

JR's explanation of why that glass was broken doesn't make sense, as he said he had to take his pants off and enter through there months back because he locked himself out -- but if that window was broken the night JBR was murdered, and whatever broke it was removed from the window well (a toy, etc.), how would the cobwebs still remain? There have been conflicting reports (from two documentaries I've seen) saying that leaf debris was somehow "manipulated" in the window well. Assuming that it was manipulated by one of JR and/or PR, again, how was it manipulated without disturbing the cobwebs? The only way would be if it was manipulated from the grate access outside; not from inside.

I remember hearing about a psychic that said she strongly felt JBR's presence in that window well area; that's always stuck with me.

I wonder if JBR broke that window that night, and that is why JR lied about it. He needed to distance the window from the police because it was key to what happened that night.

One thing that has always bothered me: the broken glass in the train room.

I don't believe in the intruder theory, but the small piece of glass that was found on the suitcase underneath the broken window -- that puzzles me still.

JR's explanation of why that glass was broken doesn't make sense, as he said he had to take his pants off and enter through there months back because he locked himself out -- but if that window was broken the night JBR was murdered, and whatever broke it was removed from the window well (a toy, etc.), how would the cobwebs still remain? There have been conflicting reports (from two documentaries I've seen) saying that leaf debris was somehow "manipulated" in the window well. Assuming that it was manipulated by one of JR and/or PR, again, how was it manipulated without disturbing the cobwebs? The only way would be if it was manipulated from the grate access outside; not from inside.

I remember hearing about a psychic that said she strongly felt JBR's presence in that window well area; that's always stuck with me.

I wonder if JBR broke that window that night, and that is why JR lied about it. He needed to distance the window from the police because it was key to what happened that night.

I wonder if JBR broke that window that night, and that is why JR lied about it. He needed to distance the window from the police because it was key to what happened that night.

Holy wow userID! Tremendous insight you’re on the right track!

 

[UKGuy]

Cottonstar,

It seems as if JR might be amending a prior staging where the broken window and the suitcase were intended to play a role, along with other items later distributed about the basement, e.g. Bloodstained Pink Barbie Nightgown?

That JR could have moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar during a later visit is simply a continuation of this behavour?

.

 

[Userid]

Thanks everyone, but now I'm even more confused. After FW moved the suitcase, there was still glass that was found atop of the suitcase -- how would that be possible, after it was moved? There was a shard of glass still atop of it; there's a photo somewhere of it. You would think that little shard would have easily fell off when that case was moved. So is it possible it fell there after the case was moved?

 

[UKGuy]

Thanks everyone, but now I'm even more confused. After FW moved the suitcase, there was still glass that was found atop of the suitcase -- how would that be possible, after it was moved? There was a shard of glass still atop of it; there's a photo somewhere of it. You would think that little shard would have easily fell off when that case was moved. So is it possible it fell there after the case was moved?

Userid,
Maybe Fleet put it there on his second visit, or John moved it accidentally at some point.

From memory it was Lou Smit who speculated about the shard of glass on the suitcase, suggesting it arrived via the shoe of the intruder as he came through the window.

In the same interview, with JR, he pointed out the packing peanuts on the floor and said some were also found on the wine-cellar floor, get that?

Meaning where are the glass shards in the wine-cellar, even JonBenet's bedroom?

It seems pretty obvious JR is trying to explain away a prior staging, why else do we have a father keeping silent about a broken window on the morning he discovers his daughter kidnapped?

IMO its the alignment of the suitcase that matters not the shards of glass, since we expect the latter, i.e. breaking windows is messy, knowing what Fleet White said matches up with the forensic evidence tells us JR is simply making stuff up, and playing Lou Smit like a violin.

.