When did John find the body?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by BrotherMoon, Nov 9, 2004.

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When did John find the body?

Poll closed Nov 19, 2004.
  1. Before the 911 call.

    7 vote(s)
    21.9%
  2. The 11 O'clock hour.

    6 vote(s)
    18.8%
  3. As reported, 1 p.m.

    11 vote(s)
    34.4%
  4. He didn't find it, he knew about the accident or was involved in it and the cover-up.

    8 vote(s)
    25.0%
  5. Other.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. BrotherMoon

    BrotherMoon Former Member

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    1. Before the 911 call.

    2. The 11 O'clock hour.

    3. As reported, 1 p.m.

    4. He didn't find it, he knew about the accident, or was involved in it and the cover-up.

    5. Other.
     


  2. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    IMO John found the body of JonBenet before the 911 call was made at 5:52 A.M. He likely found her in the basement around 3 to 4 A.M.

    John blew it in the 1998 interviews when he inadvertently slipped and said he moved a chair and some boxes from in front of the door to the train room when he snuck away from the group upstairs and went down to the basement alone between 7 and 9 A.M. But he had to have removed the chair and boxes before 6 A.M. because Officer French and Fleet White had searched the train room just minutes after 6 A.M. and there was no chair nor boxes blocking their way into the train room at that time.

    Patsy also blew it in the 1998 interviews when she got flustered and blurted that, prior to the 911 call, she was screaming and John was screaming as John came up from the basement. John says in the interviews he never searched the basement prior to the 911 call.

    John was obviously lying. He was in the basement prior to 6 A.M. And if he was in the basement prior to the 911 call, then he had found JonBenet hours before the 911 call -- probably around 3 to 4 A.M. Why else would he lie about it?

    JMO
     
  3. jasmine

    jasmine Former Member

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    You have this great conspiracy theory that assumes too much. So my vote is that John found the body at 1pm when he brought it up.
     
  4. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    I say around 11am, which is what he told Melinda's boyfriend on the same day.
     
  5. tezi

    tezi Member of Websleuths since 2000.

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    I think he was involved in the cover-up or after he read the ransom note, he figured out that it was an accident. I think he found the body either before the 9-11 call or sometime around 11 in the morning. However, I voted for the fourth option.
     
  6. ManInTheBox

    ManInTheBox New Member

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    Anything in this case would be assuming. There is no evidence clearly eliminating any of the prime suspects. Is anything at this point assuming too much. Especially with the evidence he's pointed out. Not saying that I agree with him but come on B.C. does have some good evidence there. I think one of the most important facts in this case that was never found out (apart from the captain obvious fact of who did it) is where the murder took place...which means what room in the house or in the house at all. Thee second could very well be when John found the body. Would you say the cosp were assuming too much when the interrogated adn convicted Michael Crowe...of course. Though they did it eve nwith no evidence to back them up. B.C. at least has a theory and some evidence. There is no such thing as assuming too much in this case nemore unless u throw someone in prison under the assumption they did it. Anything less than that is fair game...especially in the state the case is in (and I don't mean Colorado). WHOA WAIT A SEC B.C. where did u find out that during the 911 call Patsy said John ran up from the basement? Could you give me that source? Not trying disprove u but I've never heard of that b4
     
  7. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    What I find telling, are Patsy's and John's response to the kids on Christmas morning. The kids, as all children, were excitedly waiting to go downstairs and yet waited for John to go down and turn on the lights for them. IMO, these aren't kids that roam around the house in the middle of the night alone, or with each other.
    IMO
     
  8. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    ManInTheBox,

    It wasn't DURING the 911 call that Patsy temporarily lost it and said John came up from the basement. She said it BEFORE the 911 call.

    Tom Haney was interviewing Patsy Ramsey in 1998 in regard to what she did the minute she discovered JonBenet was missing. Patsy said she was at the bottom of the stairs leading to the third floor and John was still upstairs in the bedroom. Here's the interview:

    TOM HANEY: "So you're here at the base of the stairs?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Uh-Huh."

    TOM HANEY: "Do you remember exactly what words you used, was it more than just John or --"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "I remember my voice was just cracking. I mean it was like JOHN, like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know, I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he came up from the basement. I mean it was just a horrible thing. You know, it was just -- "

    Sorry Patsy. Sometimes the unconscious truth regretably slips from the tongue during discomposed moments. You just admitted John was in the basement prior to the 911 call.

    JMO
     
  9. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    hmm..as a victim of bad editing myself, I suggest there is part of that interview "missing" ,and another section deliberately placed..to allow the reader to consider something other than the original would have shown...JMO..
     
  10. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Sissi,

    Everything I wrote in quotes in the above post about Patsy saying John came up from the basement is word for word from the original 1998 transcripts, unedited by neither Jameson nor the NE, with nothing missing nor rearranged to change the meaning.

    Does the truth hurt that much, or weren't you questioning my integrity?

    JMO
     
  11. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Of course not, I am questioning the integrety of the NE!!
     
  12. TressaRing28

    TressaRing28 Former Member

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    BrotherMoon, I think its possible that John found her around 9am when he went down to Basement.

    That could play into a Burke did I Theory.


    John at least 1 clues-- Long reports by phone that John said 11am.

    I don't think John was involved with a Patsy coverup----A Burke cover indeed.
     
  13. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Tressa,

    John was manning the phone between 8 and 10, the time period the "kidnapper" was supposed to call according to the RN. John says he went down to the basement alone sometime between 7 and 9, but he would have been missed if he had done that. He was manning the phone and being prepped to answer it during that time.

    No one saw John slip away and go to the basement that morning. I think he did it prior to the 911 call. John says he never went into the basement prior to the 911 call, but no father would NOT search the basement when his 6-year-old daughter is missing.

    John lied. The chair in front of the door comment proves that. IMO he was in the basement prior to the 911 call and he found JonBenet at that time.


    JMO
     
  14. twizzler333

    twizzler333 Inactive

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    First of all, when Patsy "slipped" in her deposition stating she heard her scream and then heard John scream as he came up from the basement- I had read that some time ago and I didn't take it to mean he came up from the basement prior to the 911 call. I took it to mean, she was just talking in general about hearing the screams that day and the chaos they endured thinking she had been kidnapped. I think she was generalizing when asked to describe how she yelled for John, and she just was basically saying, you know screaming for him because my baby was missing, and then referred to the screams from when they found her later in the day. I think she was just recalling all the horror they felt that day.

    Another thing is IF John did go down in the basement around 11 AM and found her body, do you think he would have been able to return upstairs, and still act like they were waiting on a phone call? Get real! He would have been hysterical like he was at 1PM.
     
  15. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Twizzler,

    The interview at that point was about what Patsy did immediately after finding JonBenet missing. If Patsy said she was screaming and John was screaming as John came up from the basement, how can you interpret it to mean anything else but that? Patsy said it. There's no interpretation needed.

    And Patsy didn't scream when JonBenet was "found" at 1:05 P.M. She sat quietly in the sun room and wouldn't budge.

    JMO
     
  16. twizzler333

    twizzler333 Inactive

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    Now your recollection of her behavior after they did bring JBR is completely different from anything else I have read. I read that she was asking "what's going on?" and that one of the ladies (BFernie- I think) held her back in that room they were in and THEN they let her go in to see what John was screaming about and she went and threw herself over JBR's body, etc.

    Saying she wouldn't budge is news to me and makes me wonder about how reliable anything else is you have told us.

    I was just telling you how I initially interpreted her statements, nothing more. I just want justice for JonBenet. I don't care if her mother did it or her brother! I am trying to be open minded here but as I have stated time and time again, I just don't see the evidence pointed at the Ramsey's. I see things that people consider fact and truth and I see how they twist and turn it to suit their belief. I honestly am telling you what I percieved at the time I read that deposition. Sorry. You might be correct in your assessment, but I am just telling how I immediately took that BEFORE we even began this discussion.
     
  17. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was much conversation after Jameson sold the transcripts that NE did not publish every word and some of the editing put Q&A's out of context.
    In fact the NE's own caveat......INCLUDES : Exact transcripts
    It does not say, every word from the transcript is in context and copied throughout in entirety.
    Edited by Don Gentile and David Wright.
    IMO as worded, it includes some exact transcripts but edits other portions. IMO
     
  18. twizzler333

    twizzler333 Inactive

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    NE as in National Enquirer? Is that where some of this information has been coming from? I don't even read that junk. To me, that is not credible information.

    Is there information or transcripts available for statements and/or depositions made by The Fernies or The Whites? Or others involved besides the Ramsey's?
     
  19. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Twizzler,

    PMPT pb, pg 19:

    "While John Ramsey and others rushed back to the front of the house, Patsy sat for a moment on a couch in the rear of the house looking out a window. She did not move despite all the shouting that JonBenet had been found."

    JMO
     
  20. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Yes Twizzler, that's it NE is National Enquirer, they bought the transcripts from Jameson for 40,000 and put together the book,"Jonbenet The Police Files". On the front cover(they covered themselves )in small letters ,it states " INCLUDES (notice they capitalized each letter) Exact transcripts...so yes..within the book there are a few included, exact transcripts, but the rest was up for editing.
    And although we have a tendency to use PMPT as our bible of information, it was based heavily on Steve's recollection and third hand telling of events as perceived by the BPD as told to Steve, as told to Schiller. I'm guilty of this, as well as BC and most, because it is by far the most fact filled of the books, but not without errors and assumptions.
    What I would like to see, if available, is Fleet's deposition. The depositions that are availble on acandyrose, are in their original format and unedited, however I think Fleets is sealed .
     

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