Where Do You Think Teresa Halbach was Killed?

[dexter75]

And when I said one piece of evidence planted, it could have been blood, bones, key, take your pick.

Interesting, it was the KEY that was brought up. Hmmmm..

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[missy1974]

And when I said one piece of evidence planted, it could have been blood, bones, key, take your pick.

Interesting, it was the KEY that was brought up. Hmmmm..

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Even in closing arguments, Kratz says that something like accountability for TH's murder shouldn't matter whether or not the key was planted. There are times that it seems IMO that he almost concedes that it's a possibility that it was planted. And to me, personally, if that key was planted (which I firmly believe it was), then it brings all the other evidence into question, especially because MCSO was involved in ALL of the major evidence in this case.

 

[missy1974]

I knew my Missy would be chiming in this one lol
Correction..." our Missy, ahem, Websleuths Missy "
Gotta bit carried away there..

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:giggle: I'm not busy at work at this time of year. I've stepped back a bit lately because it's the same old stuff over and over again and I get tired of repeating myself, or defending my opinion. I do have another summer obsession.... fairy gardens LOL I make clay garden accessories which is super relaxing and I find that I do a lot of thinking about this case while doing it.... I am still reading diligently about the case, just taking more breaks in between LOL That CASO report hurt my head haha The more I read, the more I think that he was set up though. I don't know by who..... I don't even know who did it, but I really do think that SA didn't do it, and it still breaks my heart that BD is still sitting in prison.

I've also come to the conclusion, in my own mind.... that we will probably never know who did it unless someone comes forward with a confession or intimate knowledge of who did it. I think the 'reasonable doubt' exists for every single person that is suspect at this time. The only thing I can think of that would be overwhelming evidence against anyone is if they were to find her purse, keys or any other personal items in the possession of someone that shouldn't have it. IMO

 

[ZOOL]

And when I said one piece of evidence planted, it could have been blood, bones, key, take your pick.

Interesting, it was the KEY that was brought up. Hmmmm..

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Strang and Buting cleverly honed in on the two most logical perpetrators of the Theory Of Planting, and on more evidence than just "blood, bones, key". Yet Avery was still convicted. Opponents of that conviction will wave every argument possible to revive that theory but unless a more logical third-party perpetrator can be thrust into the midst of all that damaging evidence the Theory Of Planting seems to be grossly overrated by now. I think this is why Zellner suggests that forensic science and a more convincing, single, special perpetrator is buried somewhere within her arguments.

So who could that be, other than Lenk and Colborn? Who could possibly have planted Avery's blood, and Teresa's bones and key? Doesn't seem likely there are too many candidates for that. SB and RH? How did they get TH's key in there? The ex-sheriff and GK from 1980-circa? Oh...maybe it was all 100+ officers and investigators in the Avery Salvage Yard from Nov 3, 2005, to Mar 8, 2006. Or better yet! Mark Furman did it! He took the 5th when the going got tough, and it looked as if he as a notorious planter of all evidence everywhere! No, no forget about him...it was Edward Wayne Edwards he holds the title of Mr. Framer Of All Unjustly Convicted Murderers....

Obviously my sarcasm is unwanted and I apologize for my derision. However I think that the Theory Of Planting is now simply exhausted.

 

[dexter75]

I don't think anything is grossly overrated.

When I said one piece of evidence, that's " just " what I meant. Any piece really, ( in my mind, could have been tampered with )

I was making the key comment and chuckling because it was Limaes who brought up the Key, hehe.

I was thinking " ooohhh, maybe she DOES think the key, was planted " lol THAT type thing. Now it's all gone and gotten blown up...hahaha

Strang and Buting cleverly honed in on the two most logical perpetrators of the Theory Of Planting, and on more evidence than just "blood, bones, key". Yet Avery was still convicted. Opponents of that conviction will wave every argument possible to revive that theory but unless a more logical third-party perpetrator can be thrust into the midst of all that damaging evidence the Theory Of Planting seems to be grossly overrated by now. I think this is why Zellner suggests that forensic science and a more convincing, single, special perpetrator is buried somewhere within her arguments.

So who could that be, other than Lenk and Colborn? Who could possibly have planted Avery's blood, and Teresa's bones and key? Doesn't seem likely there are too many candidates for that. SB and RH? How did they get TH's key in there? The ex-sheriff and GK from 1980-circa? Oh...maybe it was all 100+ officers and investigators in the Avery Salvage Yard from Nov 3, 2005, to Mar 8, 2006. Or better yet! Mark Furman did it! He took the 5th when the going got tough, and it looked as if he as a notorious planter of all evidence everywhere! No, no forget about him...it was Edward Wayne Edwards he holds the title of Mr. Framer Of All Unjustly Convicted Murderers....

Obviously my sarcasm is unwanted and I apologize for my derision. However I think that the Theory Of Planting is now simply exhausted.

 

[dexter75]

Fairy's are BIG here where I am!

I agree, it's exhausting repeating what is so very obvious. IMO.

:giggle: I'm not busy at work at this time of year. I've stepped back a bit lately because it's the same old stuff over and over again and I get tired of repeating myself, or defending my opinion. I do have another summer obsession.... fairy gardens LOL I make clay garden accessories which is super relaxing and I find that I do a lot of thinking about this case while doing it.... I am still reading diligently about the case, just taking more breaks in between LOL That CASO report hurt my head haha The more I read, the more I think that he was set up though. I don't know by who..... I don't even know who did it, but I really do think that SA didn't do it, and it still breaks my heart that BD is still sitting in prison.

I've also come to the conclusion, in my own mind.... that we will probably never know who did it unless someone comes forward with a confession or intimate knowledge of who did it. I think the 'reasonable doubt' exists for every single person that is suspect at this time. The only thing I can think of that would be overwhelming evidence against anyone is if they were to find her purse, keys or any other personal items in the possession of someone that shouldn't have it. IMO

 

[missy1974]

Strang and Buting cleverly honed in on the two most logical perpetrators of the Theory Of Planting, and on more evidence than just "blood, bones, key". Yet Avery was still convicted. Opponents of that conviction will wave every argument possible to revive that theory but unless a more logical third-party perpetrator can be thrust into the midst of all that damaging evidence the Theory Of Planting seems to be grossly overrated by now. I think this is why Zellner suggests that forensic science and a more convincing, single, special perpetrator is buried somewhere within her arguments.

So who could that be, other than Lenk and Colborn? Who could possibly have planted Avery's blood, and Teresa's bones and key? Doesn't seem likely there are too many candidates for that. SB and RH? How did they get TH's key in there? The ex-sheriff and GK from 1980-circa? Oh...maybe it was all 100+ officers and investigators in the Avery Salvage Yard from Nov 3, 2005, to Mar 8, 2006. Or better yet! Mark Furman did it! He took the 5th when the going got tough, and it looked as if he as a notorious planter of all evidence everywhere! No, no forget about him...it was Edward Wayne Edwards he holds the title of Mr. Framer Of All Unjustly Convicted Murderers....

Obviously my sarcasm is unwanted and I apologize for my derision. However I think that the Theory Of Planting is now simply exhausted.

It's interesting how things are viewed, depending on which side of the fence we are on. Your comment "yet Avery was still convicted" made me think.... and I'm hoping I can put it into the right words.

I don't want to call myself an Avery supporter, I'm more of a supporter of justice, and there isn't just one issue in this trial that makes me feel the way I do. It's all of them combined that give me doubts. Your comment that he was convicted so it proves that the theory of planting was disregarded is IMO not that simple. Not when you add in that apparently some jurors have come forward implying that they discussed things that were not in the trial (BD, rape), they swapped votes (that is why there was a no guilty verdict on the mutilation of corpse charge), intimidation, and then there is the issue of the one juror, his wife was hired back to the County Clerks office specifically for both trials (how is that okay???) So you put the "." at the end of the sentence, and I can't help but think, it's just not that simple, not in this case anyway IMO

Anyone asking for proof that the key was planted is just ridiculous, as if any of us can do that... and surely if there is/was proof, Strang and Buting would have used that, right? IMO the State also didn't
prove that it wasn't planted, and actually even seems to concede during closing statements..... to me that opens it all up for scrutiny when just one little piece of the puzzle has the potential to have been planted.

Don't apologize for the sarcasm ;-) I think we have all used it at some point..... sometimes we just have to make it clear it's sarcasm before someone takes it as truth LOL

 

[Limaes]

No way was Colborn sympathetic to SA lol Colborn testified that he was concerned he could be personally added to that lawsuit.

Also.... the first bone was discovered by MCSO officer Jason Jost. Not an arson investigator. Jost writes up a very detailed report about what he was thinking that day

You can't be added to a civil lawsuit after being deposed in that same suit. He testified without counsel.

It was the officer from the arson squad who brought their attention to it.

 

[Limaes]

I don't think anything is grossly overrated.

When I said one piece of evidence, that's " just " what I meant. Any piece really, ( in my mind, could have been tampered with )

I was making the key comment and chuckling because it was Limaes who brought up the Key, hehe.

I was thinking " ooohhh, maybe she DOES think the key, was planted " lol THAT type thing. Now it's all gone and gotten blown up...hahaha

I also brought up the blood, bones and the Rav 4. *smdh*

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[Limaes]

It's interesting how things are viewed, depending on which side of the fence we are on. Your comment "yet Avery was still convicted" made me think.... and I'm hoping I can put it into the right words.

I don't want to call myself an Avery supporter, I'm more of a supporter of justice, and there isn't just one issue in this trial that makes me feel the way I do. It's all of them combined that give me doubts. Your comment that he was convicted so it proves that the theory of planting was disregarded is IMO not that simple. Not when you add in that apparently some jurors have come forward implying that they discussed things that were not in the trial (BD, rape), they swapped votes (that is why there was a no guilty verdict on the mutilation of corpse charge), intimidation, and then there is the issue of the one juror, his wife was hired back to the County Clerks office specifically for both trials (how is that okay???) So you put the "." at the end of the sentence, and I can't help but think, it's just not that simple, not in this case anyway IMO

Anyone asking for proof that the key was planted is just ridiculous, as if any of us can do that... and surely if there is/was proof, Strang and Buting would have used that, right? IMO the State also didn't
prove that it wasn't planted, and actually even seems to concede during closing statements..... to me that opens it all up for scrutiny when just one little piece of the puzzle has the potential to have been planted.

Don't apologize for the sarcasm ;-) I think we have all used it at some point..... sometimes we just have to make it clear it's sarcasm before someone takes it as truth LOL

We are all supporters of justice.

The state did not have to prove they didn't plant the evidence, the defense had to prove they did. They couldn't then and they still can't.

 

[dexter75]

I also brought up the blood, bones and the Rav 4. *smdh*

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But only seemed to make an excuse for the key, in theory of course.
( It could of fell out of Colborns pocket)

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[Limaes]

But only seemed to make an excuse for the key, in theory of course.
( It could of fell out of Colborns pocket)

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It wasn't an "excuse". I purposely created a hypothetical scenario arguing that there was equal possibility that Colborn could have been covering for SA as opposed to framing him.

I don't actually believe that is what happened. As you seen, your friend Missy replied with "lol" because she thought it funny as I do when I read the "planting" theories.

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[dexter75]

Yep

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[Limaes]

Strang and Buting cleverly honed in on the two most logical perpetrators of the Theory Of Planting, and on more evidence than just "blood, bones, key". Yet Avery was still convicted. Opponents of that conviction will wave every argument possible to revive that theory but unless a more logical third-party perpetrator can be thrust into the midst of all that damaging evidence the Theory Of Planting seems to be grossly overrated by now. I think this is why Zellner suggests that forensic science and a more convincing, single, special perpetrator is buried somewhere within her arguments.

So who could that be, other than Lenk and Colborn? Who could possibly have planted Avery's blood, and Teresa's bones and key? Doesn't seem likely there are too many candidates for that. SB and RH? How did they get TH's key in there? The ex-sheriff and GK from 1980-circa? Oh...maybe it was all 100+ officers and investigators in the Avery Salvage Yard from Nov 3, 2005, to Mar 8, 2006. Or better yet! Mark Furman did it! He took the 5th when the going got tough, and it looked as if he as a notorious planter of all evidence everywhere! No, no forget about him...it was Edward Wayne Edwards he holds the title of Mr. Framer Of All Unjustly Convicted Murderers....

Obviously my sarcasm is unwanted and I apologize for my derision. However I think that the Theory Of Planting is now simply exhausted.

Lol @ Mark Furman. Why was he not investigated? Maybe he used OJ's gloves to plant the blood because he wanted to set them both up.

Yes, silly I know. But if he and Kratz were ever spotted in the same room...God help us.

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[dexter75]

Lol @ Mark Furman. Why was he not investigated? Maybe he used OJ's gloves to plant the blood because he wanted to set them both up.

Yes, silly I know. But if he and Kratz were ever spotted in the same room...God help us.

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Wow.

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[missy1974]

You can't be added to a civil lawsuit after being deposed in that same suit. He testified without counsel.

It was the officer from the arson squad who brought their attention to it.

I don't care whether he could be added to the lawsuit or not, he testified that it had crossed his mind and was concerned that he could be personally added to the lawsuit. Maybe if he had counsel, he would have known if he could or couldn't have been added and he wouldn't have been so concerned. JMO

According the MCSO report, it was Jost that found the first bone, what he thought was a vertebrae. It's in the MTSO report.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf

 

[Jaiddie]

My oh my, * insert Cheshire Cat grin here* don't I feel special for being called out, or yelled at? lol, can't tell from where I sit.

Who do I think killed Teresa Halbach? Hmmm, Welp, to be honest I have bounced between a couple of different suspects & they are actually scattered around here in several threads.

I could sum it up for ya best I can though, Limeas, if it really means " that " much to ya.

I go back and forth between RH & SC, or someone around the Zipperers. ORRRR....someone else from the Avery/Dassey/Tadyck family. ORRRRRR... someone else entirely who TH was close to or knew from her job.

I could be wrong:shame: And that's ok,:whiteflag: I was taught to always be able to admit mistakes & apologize.:sorry:

I am " pretty positive " though, that SA, did not kill, Teresa Halbach. And I do not NEED to know everything, if that makes sense.

I have seen where you have stated before that we seem to think alike (or words to that effect), and this post makes it official...you are my doppelganger, LOL. I am right there with you on all counts! (in regards to who did it) :highfive:

Edit: for clarification

 

[Jaiddie]

It's interesting how things are viewed, depending on which side of the fence we are on. Your comment "yet Avery was still convicted" made me think.... and I'm hoping I can put it into the right words.

I don't want to call myself an Avery supporter, I'm more of a supporter of justice, and there isn't just one issue in this trial that makes me feel the way I do. It's all of them combined that give me doubts. Your comment that he was convicted so it proves that the theory of planting was disregarded is IMO not that simple. Not when you add in that apparently some jurors have come forward implying that they discussed things that were not in the trial (BD, rape), they swapped votes (that is why there was a no guilty verdict on the mutilation of corpse charge), intimidation, and then there is the issue of the one juror, his wife was hired back to the County Clerks office specifically for both trials (how is that okay???) So you put the "." at the end of the sentence, and I can't help but think, it's just not that simple, not in this case anyway IMO

Anyone asking for proof that the key was planted is just ridiculous, as if any of us can do that... and surely if there is/was proof, Strang and Buting would have used that, right? IMO the State also didn't
prove that it wasn't planted, and actually even seems to concede during closing statements..... to me that opens it all up for scrutiny when just one little piece of the puzzle has the potential to have been planted.

Don't apologize for the sarcasm ;-) I think we have all used it at some point..... sometimes we just have to make it clear it's sarcasm before someone takes it as truth LOL

:yeahthat::goodpost:

 

[Limaes]

I don't care whether he could be added to the lawsuit or not, he testified that it had crossed his mind and was concerned that he could be personally added to the lawsuit. Maybe if he had counsel, he would have known if he could or couldn't have been added and he wouldn't have been so concerned. JMO

According the MCSO report, it was Jost that found the first bone, what he thought was a vertebrae. It's in the MTSO report.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf

<modsnip>

If it wasn't for Colborn speaking up in the first place, they never would have been deposed. He knew he didn't do anything wrong.

Have you seen any reports from the Arson Squad?

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[missy1974]

Don't twist my words, regardless of what the reality of the situation was, Colborn testifies the thought crossed his mind.

These here are the facts:




Sgt Jason Jost with MCSO's report, page 15 of the MCSO report. Maybe I missed it.... is Sgt Jost an Arson investigator? Seriously, this is not a fact that has been disputed, I do realize that Kratz was spewing on Dr. Drew that an arson investigator was the one that "stumbled upon the bones", but like most of what Kratz says, he is wrong.



And in case you want some more facts:
Sturdivant's testimony (can be found on Day 13) .... who did spend some time with the Arson Bureau with the DCI, he worked on 3 or 4 cases, and in fact said any cases he was involved in while with that division had bodies or partial bodies, no where near what is the case here.