Who benefited from the killings?

[PreciousDust]

Another way to look at it is the only thing they have in common is that all five were sex workers, all five are dead, and all five were found on Jones Island.

Well, not "Jones Island" (there's one in upstate New York, and also a peripheral little one on the way to Jones Beach). I guess you could say "Jones Beach Island", though I've never heard Oak Beach or Gilgo Beach referred to as being there. But disregarding the name of the area, which of these two statements do you think is more accurate regarding GB4 and SG:
a) Five prostitutes, dead, in virtually the same place.
b) Five prostitutes, dead, with one of them in a completely different place than the others.

It's "a", and it's "a" that leaves the vast majority of people believing that SG was probably murdered. To that vast majority of people, there's a lot in common.

 

[CriminalMinds]

****A big difference is that the GB4 were very obviously placed there by someone after they were dead by someone looking for a place to get rid of a dead body, while SG was found relatively far from them and close to where she was last seen. SG was found in an area not consistent with someone looking for a place to get rid of a dead body***.

(snipped a piece from the quote to AGREE HIGHLY with the above point--

 

[PreciousDust]

****A big difference is that the GB4 were very obviously placed there by someone after they were dead by someone looking for a place to get rid of a dead body, while SG was found relatively far from them and close to where she was last seen. SG was found in an area not consistent with someone looking for a place to get rid of a dead body***.

(snipped a piece from the quote to AGREE HIGHLY with the above point--

I can't even agree lowly with it. There's nothing "very obvious" about what the placement of the GB4 means, nor is there anything about where SG was found that makes it inconsistent with a placement of a body. GB4 may have been placed there specifically so that they could be found; logic suggests (though, again, all aspects are unknown) that someone who didn't want them found would have buried them on land or at sea. SG was found, what, 20 yards from the main road? The similarities for all five: they're prostitutes, they're dead, and they're in the same place. The only differences are ones drawn by the police, which we're supposed to accept uncritically - the burlap and the strangulation.

 

[CriminalMinds]

****A big difference is that the GB4 were very obviously placed there by someone after they were dead by someone looking for a place to get rid of a dead body, while SG was found relatively far from them and close to where she was last seen. SG was found in an area not consistent with someone looking for a place to get rid of a dead body***.




I can't even agree lowly with it. There's nothing "very obvious" about what the placement of the GB4 means, nor is there anything about where SG was found that makes it inconsistent with a placement of a body. GB4 may have been placed there specifically so that they could be found; logic suggests (though, again, all aspects are unknown) that someone who didn't want them found would have buried them on land or at sea. SG was found, what, 20 yards from the main road? The similarities for all five: they're prostitutes, they're dead, and they're in the same place. The only differences are ones drawn by the police, which we're supposed to accept uncritically - the burlap and the strangulation.

that's ok--this is America, where disagreeing is allowed and encouraged (unlike overseas where you could be jailed or killed)--it leads to spirited debate and idea exchange--just like I disagree with the statement " There's nothing "very obvious" about what the placement of the GB4 means"--It's "very obvious" they are CLUSTERED for a reason(or else they would be scattered across the wooded areas of the island)---Most likely they are CLUSTERED for revisiting by the unsub, probably for his sexual pleasure derived by "reliving" the experience. The location is likely to be also personally significant to the unsub, with probably an odd/bizarre meaning to him(then again, maybe that was just an easy spot to dump the bodies for him, since it is relatively isolated/pitch dark,generally zero police presence at night)--I do agree with the statements: "they are prostitutes, they're dead"--the same place thing is probably true, but subjective until the five are proven tied--very coincidental/ironic at the very least

 

[PreciousDust]

Most likely they are CLUSTERED for revisiting by the unsub, probably for his sexual pleasure derived by "reliving" the experience.

Yeah, I don't see it, though I know that's common m.o. for a serial killer. I don't see this guy going back and revisiting that tick-infested dump site. But, then again, I doubt it's even a traditional serial killer we're dealing with, and I've always thought the bodies were placed there to provoke and infuriate the Babylon Police Department (and that LE hasn't been truthful at all about what's going on). But you're right, it's a free country and all that.

 

[Justiceforever]

you should get the hang of it after that....

Do tell Hawk! This inquiring mind also wants to know! ; )

 

[CriminalMinds]

Yeah, I don't see it, though I know that's common m.o. for a serial killer. I don't see this guy going back and revisiting that tick-infested dump site. But, then again, I doubt it's even a traditional serial killer we're dealing with, and I've always thought the bodies were placed there to provoke and infuriate the Babylon Police Department (and that LE hasn't been truthful at all about what's going on). But you're right, it's a free country and all that.

I have heard quite a few people comment on the possibility of placement having to do with sticking it to the BABYLON PD--you could be on to something solid there--and I HIGHLY AGREE (lol) with you that LE hasn't been truthful (or forthcoming) at all--there "truth" and disclosure seems to be directly proportionate to what the reporters know for sure they know and can't immediately stretch the truth about

 

[Justiceforever]

that's ok--this is America, where disagreeing is allowed and encouraged (unlike overseas where you could be jailed or killed)--it leads to spirited debate and idea exchange--just like I disagree with the statement " There's nothing "very obvious" about what the placement of the GB4 means"--It's "very obvious" they are CLUSTERED for a reason(or else they would be scattered across the wooded areas of the island)---Most likely they are CLUSTERED for revisiting by the unsub, probably for his sexual pleasure derived by "reliving" the experience. The location is likely to be also personally significant to the unsub, with probably an odd/bizarre meaning to him(then again, maybe that was just an easy spot to dump the bodies for him, since it is relatively isolated/pitch dark,generally zero police presence at night)--I do agree with the statements: "they are prostitutes, they're dead"--the same place thing is probably true, but subjective until the five are proven tied--very coincidental/ironic at the very least

I like that attitude! (in bold) I usually learn something new from people who disagree with me.

I don't want to imagine a world were everyone agreed with everything I said! I'd think I was surrounded by morons!! :floorlaugh:

 

[CriminalMinds]

Originally Posted by CriminalMinds View Post
Most likely they are CLUSTERED for revisiting by the unsub, probably for his sexual pleasure derived by "reliving" the experience.

Yeah, I don't see it, though I know that's common m.o. for a serial killer. I don't see this guy going back and revisiting that tick-infested dump site. But, then again, I doubt it's even a traditional serial killer we're dealing with, and I've always thought the bodies were placed there to provoke and infuriate the Babylon Police Department (and that LE hasn't been truthful at all about what's going on). But you're right, it's a free country and all that.

and I must say, part of me doesn't see it either, actually getting out of his vehicle to sexually revisit, just that that ends up being the most common reason for clustering---but i do think he clustered because he is a re-visitor--- part of me believes(the more I think about it) he revisits by driving by them, so its more of a trophy revisiting behavior than sexually motivated behavior-might be compulsive, too--kind of a sick "garden" to him--probably why they are layed out in a sort of line, and not directly next to each other or placed in a close circular or squarish formation

 

[CriminalMinds]

I like that attitude! (in bold) I usually learn something new from people who disagree with me.

I don't want to imagine a world were everyone agreed with everything I said! I'd think I was surrounded by morons!! :floorlaugh:

TY, Justice--I usually learn from disagreement as well--helps keep the mind open to what you haven't considered, or even a totally new view on something--usually a newer idea ends up being a combo of both sides of the debate---besides, we are all here trying to help(hopefully) and speculating, so there is really no right or wrong idea, just differences of opinions at times

 

[LINative13]

There is something very significant to the GB4 placement. Where they are placed in between hemlock and the old coast guard station. Whoever put them there knew there was significantly less foot traffic there. This was done by someone with intimate knowledge of this area. Not somebody from manorville, or somebody from the city....a town of babylon or town of islip guy did this. I have posted some more detailed responses to this subject. Check them out.

 

[hawkshaw]

I think some of you folks are making this more complicated than it really needs to be. This seems to me to be your typical I don't give a ..... dumpsite by people who don't give a BLEEP. Kill them and dump them the first place you can find and hope no one finds them. I don't see your typical serial going back to re-visit an old victim when all they really need to satisfy themselves is to kill again.

This is no serial killer,,...IMO, but what the heck do I know. Remember these gals were prostitutes and the killer knows no one really cares about them. Had not Blue went out for a walk with his handler the SG part of it would be long forgotten.

Somebody for some reason is hiding something that is going to harm a lot of people if the connections are made between the gals and their customers.

 

[hawkshaw]

IMHO, this case stinks for many reasons. Maybe my bias of some SCPD, DA, and SC politicians clouds my judgement.

1. JB hired SG to pay him a visit in the middle of the night. He denies she came there for sex.
2. JB's house is the last place she was seen at other than the home of GC and another neghbor asking for help.
3. Dormer said SG's case is probably not connected to the GB4 bodies, and the other bodies found near and at Oak Beach.
4. The GB4 and SG have all been identified as prostitutes advertising on Craigslist.
5. Dormer would say that SG probably died by an accident when she got entangled in the thickets.
6. How could Dormer say that when the ME has not found a cause of death?
7. JB was quickly ruled out as a suspect in the death of SG. How could this be when he should be suspect #1? How could he possibly be ruled out so fast?
8. Why and how did the rumors started flying around that the nursery owner was a suspect?

 

[PreciousDust]

7. JB was quickly ruled out as a suspect in the death of SG. How could this be when he should be suspect #1? How could he possibly be ruled out so fast?

Almost like LE knew JB couldn't be the perp because they already knew who the perp was. JB, just like everyone else, couldn't really be a suspect in anything until it was proven SG was dead; by the time SG was found, LE had had a full year to consider who the perp was in GB4.

 

[LINative13]

The nursery thing is bizarre. I have spoken to some SCPD guys who until I asked them "what was going on in the Gilgo Case?" were under the impression that the case was over. As in the nursery guy did it. Pretty scary that SCPD guys thought this. Now the guys I asked were not top brass....they were patrol guys. WHy would the DA come out and mention this particular internet rumor when there were plenty of other internet rumors floating around about this case. Its strange.

 

[Samantha Spade]

LINATIVE,
Glad you are safe.
Wasnt that big awards ceremony soon after the nursery guy rumor was addressed by LE?
I thought that was odd.

 

[Seajay]

The nursery thing is bizarre. I have spoken to some SCPD guys who until I asked them "what was going on in the Gilgo Case?" were under the impression that the case was over. As in the nursery guy did it. Pretty scary that SCPD guys thought this. Now the guys I asked were not top brass....they were patrol guys. WHy would the DA come out and mention this particular internet rumor when there were plenty of other internet rumors floating around about this case. Its strange.

So as far as some of the SCPD are concerned, the case is solved, the nursery dude did it and that's that.

I guess they can live with that until more bodies turn up. With Sandy having pounded LI and stirred things up, maybe that will be soon. Of course, then they say they have been there since before nursery dude died. They aren't even looking. Yet they made no official announcement that the solved the case.

 

[fred&edna]

The nursery thing is bizarre. I have spoken to some SCPD guys who until I asked them "what was going on in the Gilgo Case?" were under the impression that the case was over. As in the nursery guy did it. Pretty scary that SCPD guys thought this. Now the guys I asked were not top brass....they were patrol guys. WHy would the DA come out and mention this particular internet rumor when there were plenty of other internet rumors floating around about this case. Its strange.

Does anyone know if the nursery guy was actually on LE's radar of possible suspects?? Anyone know if his friends, family or employees were questioned? Was it part of the rumor that he confessed in a suicide note? Also, I wonder if the nursery guy knew JRuis.

 

[Just K]

hmm, imagine that, jb and the doc a hit squad for the mob. Dilbert and Joey Buttafuoco's little brother working as a team of professionals specializing in manually strangling sex workers and keeping their bodies real close by. Why did Pak come back to oak beach to look for SG if it was an organization that he was a part of?

This is probably my last post for a while, I'm on Fire Island and they shut down the power

10/29/2012 8:23 PM
Let's hear from you!

 

[Just K]

I'm just going to make a little list and ask you to consider the forest as opposed to the trees:
LLCs
Motels (used for escorts, prostitution, etc.) owned by people connected to the LLCs
Connected to businesses
Connected to Real estate investments
Connected to the construction of said projects
Straw deals using the bottom of the ladder folks for names to put on the the deeds or to live at the properties and to use those addresses to associate with other businesses that are...

Connected to:
Florida (specifically Central Florida)
LI
NYC
The Wilmington area of NC (The East Coast Hollywood)

Connected to:
Dance Clubs, DJs, Club Girls, Strip Clubs, Escort Services

Connected to:
The Pimps, the Victims, the drivers, the body guards, the residents in the properties owned by someone connected to the managers within these LLC and their clients.

AND FINALLY to lots of people (not the business owners or partners) who get arrested and or wind up dead either by obvious murder or suggested suicides.

Of course right on the fringes of all of this are the crooked public officials and the well known sophisticates and their celebrity friends.

ITA with Hawk....there is no serial killer per se. There are simply common dumping grounds for those who have somehow fallen out of favor with the organizations they managed to get entangled with.

The big wigs that wind up dead "seem to" commit suicides and the people that are used at the bottom of the ladder either end up in jail or murdered. JMHO, of course.

Not even one organization, necessarily, but simply "business as usual," perhaps.