Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[Springrain]

I think BDI. You can read my full theory on http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-the-Ramseys-covered-up-an-Opinion&p=12114599 .

 

[UKGuy]

Convincing flourish? The use of words such as "beheaded", "execution", "burial", and "she dies" multiple times minutes/hours after a homicide isn't a mere flourish. It is rage being conveyed by the writer of the note that is directed towards the already dead victim. If it was a flourish we'd see one brief 'bang for the buck' and not the repetition of such language.

Even if her body had never been found, you can easily tell by the use of such language that she is already dead and the person who wrote the note wasn't too fond of the victim while writing it.

I certainly agree a family member can be involved under either circumstance but its obvious that a can of worms the size of the Andromeda galaxy was opened by the body being so close to the note.

No use in pretending "the same questions arise".

singularity,
I've never given much importance to the ransom note, since I view it as mere staged artifact, more so these days, I now think the R's were told to stage in the manner they did, it allowed a fake homicide investigation to take place!

.

 

[UKGuy]

I think BDI. You can read my full theory on http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-the-Ramseys-covered-up-an-Opinion&p=12114599 .

Springrain,
Early in the case I thought it was either PDI or JDI, I could not imagine a 9-year old staging the wine-cellar crime-scene.

Yet the forensic evidence suggested that the most consistent explanation was BDI, so I settled on this view whilst accepting that it could be one of the parents?

Once the GJ stuff was made public that was it, game over, the case was BDI!

All thats left is the why, and for a hint James Kolar's book is a must read, he suggests via books offered to PR and JR that BR had ongoing issues, possibly some kind of paraphilia, who knows, but it likely led to the death of JonBenet.

I think you might be correct on the play doctors, this I reckon was something which was lumped under the description of a sleepover, but other parents were aware of, but due to the publicity and the sheer wall to wall coverage of the case, were never going to come forward and say my Johnny participated in such behaviour, on this aspect there has been total silence!

.

 

[Snoopster]

I have to admit that I have not "immersed" myself in this case enough to have as well-informed a view as some others...however I simply can't buy the intruder story. Having said that, I am equally divided between PR, JR and BR. If either JR or BR did it, there is no doubt in my mind that PR would have covered up for them. She was all about status.

And, PR could have done it herself, as she could have gotten upset with JBR. So, in the end I think PR was the key. She either did it or knew who did it. So sorry to speak this way of the dead. I do think she cared about her family. Definitely all MOO.

 

[Springrain]

Springrain,
Early in the case I thought it was either PDI or JDI, I could not imagine a 9-year old staging the wine-cellar crime-scene.

Yet the forensic evidence suggested that the most consistent explanation was BDI, so I settled on this view whilst accepting that it could be one of the parents?

Once the GJ stuff was made public that was it, game over, the case was BDI!

All thats left is the why, and for a hint James Kolar's book is a must read, he suggests via books offered to PR and JR that BR had ongoing issues, possibly some kind of paraphilia, who knows, but it likely led to the death of JonBenet.

I think you might be correct on the play doctors, this I reckon was something which was lumped under the description of a sleepover, but other parents were aware of, but due to the publicity and the sheer wall to wall coverage of the case, were never going to come forward and say my Johnny participated in such behaviour, on this aspect there has been total silence!

.

I know; most people overlook it due to Burke's age. Which seems fair, but all players must be considered. I agree it seems far-fetched, but analyzing the data piece by piece, he's pretty much the only one who could have logically done it.

Also, I agree about Burke's ongoing issues. I think PR was more about status than actually raising her kids right, and this lead to issues in both JonBenet and Burke.

 

[UKGuy]

I know; most people overlook it due to Burke's age. Which seems fair, but all players must be considered. I agree it seems far-fetched, but analyzing the data piece by piece, he's pretty much the only one who could have logically done it.

Also, I agree about Burke's ongoing issues. I think PR was more about status than actually raising her kids right, and this lead to issues in both JonBenet and Burke.

Springrain,
PR's status issues might be linked to her upbringing, some have noted her sister never married, and that the the Paughs have in general, been completely silent on the JonBenet case!

.

 

[Springrain]

Springrain,
PR's status issues might be linked to her upbringing, some have noted her sister never married, and that the the Paughs have in general, been completely silent on the JonBenet case!

.

True. I think her problems with her upbringing and a combination of suspected Histrionic Personality Disorder and the stress from cancer may have led her to the crime scene staging. MOO of course.

 

[singularity]

singularity,
I've never given much importance to the ransom note, since I view it as mere staged artifact, more so these days, I now think the R's were told to stage in the manner they did, it allowed a fake homicide investigation to take place!

.

Ok I see what you mean and agree to an extent but disagree on that post of yours I quoted last night. Let me explain briefly...

I believe the ransom note is the most uselessly over analyzed document in the history of crime. It is a red herring, plain and simple. The note achieves what it was supposed to do whether the writer was Patsy, Paul Simon, or Pee Wee Herman. It was meant to throw off LE and it was a resounding success! The note becomes such a vital piece of the case due to LE and the public's obsession with it and its close proximity to the body.

Having said that, this red herring contains IMO only one real clue and that is the rage/contempt for Jonbenet. The note does not let us know how long that rage was there but its there during the writing of the note. I know there are theories that a lot of time was spent writing this note. I disagree. The rage contained in it shows it happens before anything resembling a cooling off period occurs.

Burke did it? I don't buy it for a second but thanks springrain for posting your link. I'll read it but I just cant swallow the BDI theory. If he killed her then he also wrote the note and I don't believe a child wrote that. If Burke kills her causing the parents to concoct this note, then they must have hated her passionately and wanted her dead anyways because there is no sorrow, regret,etc. conveyed in the note, just hate. A parent(s) in shock over their son murdering their daughter would not use the language or tone contained in the JB section.

The only section of the note that should have been analyzed are the sections mentioning Jonbenet. The foreign factions, size of the attache,etc. are meaningless drivel. The tone of the note changes when Jonbenet is discussed, then goes back to its original tone towards the end.

I simply can't buy the intruder story. Having said that, I am equally divided between PR, JR and BR. If either JR or BR did it, there is no doubt in my mind that PR would have covered up for them.

I'm kind of a fence straddler myself. I lean towards an intruder but one that is not a stranger, maybe family friend or relative. Having said that, there are a lot of inconsistencies in the official story so I could never say the parents had no involvement with a straight face.

Only one I'm willing to rule out is Burke and him "playing doctor" with Jonbenet doesn't mean he killed her.

 

[UKGuy]

Ok I see what you mean and agree to an extent but disagree on that post of yours I quoted last night. Let me explain briefly...

I believe the ransom note is the most uselessly over analyzed document in the history of crime. It is a red herring, plain and simple. The note achieves what it was supposed to do whether the writer was Patsy, Paul Simon, or Pee Wee Herman. It was meant to throw off LE and it was a resounding success! The note becomes such a vital piece of the case due to LE and the public's obsession with it and its close proximity to the body.

Having said that, this red herring contains IMO only one real clue and that is the rage/contempt for Jonbenet. The note does not let us know how long that rage was there but its there during the writing of the note. I know there are theories that a lot of time was spent writing this note. I disagree. The rage contained in it shows it happens before anything resembling a cooling off period occurs.

Burke did it? I don't buy it for a second but thanks springrain for posting your link. I'll read it but I just cant swallow the BDI theory. If he killed her then he also wrote the note and I don't believe a child wrote that. If Burke kills her causing the parents to concoct this note, then they must have hated her passionately and wanted her dead anyways because there is no sorrow, regret,etc. conveyed in the note, just hate. A parent(s) in shock over their son murdering their daughter would not use the language or tone contained in the JB section.

The only section of the note that should have been analyzed are the sections mentioning Jonbenet. The foreign factions, size of the attache,etc. are meaningless drivel. The tone of the note changes when Jonbenet is discussed, then goes back to its original tone towards the end.


I'm kind of a fence straddler myself. I lean towards an intruder but one that is not a stranger, maybe family friend or relative. Having said that, there are a lot of inconsistencies in the official story so I could never say the parents had no involvement with a straight face.

Only one I'm willing to rule out is Burke and him "playing doctor" with Jonbenet doesn't mean he killed her.

singularity,
BBM: you are correct. Yet you fail to adduce that either of the parents may have killed JonBenet as part of some homicide staging?

The ransom note is part of the staging, to think otherwise is to perambulate around corridors insufficient for human reason.

It might be that PR killed JonBenet, asphyxiating her as she lay on the basement floor, thinking she was applying a form of forensic staging, or was it deliberate, in the sense to do otherwise, would possibly leave JonBenet alive and subject to a forensic timeline?


.

 

[singularity]

I didn't fail to adduce anything. I said rage was conveyed towards JB in the note regardless of who wrote the note.

Of course the ransom note was part of staging. The fact there was no kidnapping and the red herring stink of the note proves that. I thought you said BDI yet one post later willing to consider a Patsy scenario? Sounds like you're not sure.

Yes there is a possibility Patsy was involved. I LOATHE the official timeline and the scenarios created within it. In what universe does Patsy take Jonbenet down to the basement to choke her to death? How does that scenario pass the smell test? Is there some theory I'm unaware of where the two are down there putting boxes away, cleaning,etc. and something goes wrong? I'll admit I am out of the loop on many "theories" as once I realized the official timeline was verging on comedy I walked away from discussing the case for years.

 

[UKGuy]

I didn't fail to adduce anything. I said rage was conveyed towards JB in the note regardless of who wrote the note.

Of course the ransom note was part of staging. The fact there was no kidnapping and the red herring stink of the note proves that. I thought you said BDI yet one post later willing to consider a Patsy scenario? Sounds like you're not sure.

Yes there is a possibility Patsy was involved. I LOATHE the official timeline and the scenarios created within it. In what universe does Patsy take Jonbenet down to the basement to choke her to death? How does that scenario pass the smell test? Is there some theory I'm unaware of where the two are down there putting boxes away, cleaning,etc. and something goes wrong? I'll admit I am out of the loop on many "theories" as once I realized the official timeline was verging on comedy I walked away from discussing the case for years.

singularity,
Your I LOATHE the official timeline seems to be a cut off point for discussion. Many other people recognize PR might have ligature asphyxiated JonBenet thinking she was creating a staged crime-scene?

Is there some theory I'm unaware of

Absolutely, your brain has ran dry, your inability to theorize, to imagine some alternative universe says it all, thats what happens when you apply one size fits all!

 

[andreww]

I didn't fail to adduce anything. I said rage was conveyed towards JB in the note regardless of who wrote the note.

Of course the ransom note was part of staging. The fact there was no kidnapping and the red herring stink of the note proves that. I thought you said BDI yet one post later willing to consider a Patsy scenario? Sounds like you're not sure.

Yes there is a possibility Patsy was involved. I LOATHE the official timeline and the scenarios created within it. In what universe does Patsy take Jonbenet down to the basement to choke her to death? How does that scenario pass the smell test? Is there some theory I'm unaware of where the two are down there putting boxes away, cleaning,etc. and something goes wrong? I'll admit I am out of the loop on many "theories" as once I realized the official timeline was verging on comedy I walked away from discussing the case for years.

In my opinion it is very conceivable that Burke struck Jonbenet in anger. I feel that Patsy took over at that point and staged the crime scene. I believe that John was unaware of what had transpired. I think he had suspicions when he read the ransom note and became even more suspicious when he found the body at 10:00 am. Ask yourself why John would have told LE that all the doors were locked if he had been in on it at that point? I believe he figured it all out and began changing his story as he went along.

As for the note showing hate towards JBR, it was meant to sound like it was written by someone that had no regard for her life.


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[James Kenney]

I'd have to say both. Saved by the Cross. That seemed the most logical meaning.

 

[BoldBear]

As for the note showing hate towards JBR, it was meant to sound like it was written by someone that had no regard for her life.

So you don't see that part of the ransom note was taken from ransom movies?

I read it as foreshadowing so the body can be discovered later and there would be a reason for why she was murdered.

 

[andreww]

So you don't see that part of the ransom note was taken from ransom movies?

I read it as foreshadowing so the body can be discovered later and there would be a reason for why she was murdered.

Oh I clearly see that a good part of the note was borrowed from various movies. I wouldn't exactly call it foreshadowing though. I'm still not sure that if at the time of the writing, they really wanted the body to be found. Possibly it was hidden away, the thinking being that LE would not thoroughly search the home. Maybe the Rs expected LE to leave at some point and give them an opportunity to dispose of the body. When it became apparent that LE weren't leaving anytime soon, the plan changed.

I feel it was probably more likely that John was not in on what had happened at all. I think he found the body hidden at some point that morning and decided to change the plan.


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[InstantProof]

I don't get a sense of anger or rage towards JonBenet in the letter. I think her name isn't even used to keep it impersonal. "She dies", "proper burial" etc are clearly cold and disturbing things to have to write about your child. But a person angry or enraged with JB could easily write a lot worse.
Speaking of using names, it's always been the end of the letter that sounded real and angry to me, and we have the writer addressing John by first name a few times.

 

[andreww]

The "proper burial" is coincidental as its almost the same language the Ramsey's used when they claimed LE was holding their daughters remains so they couldn't have a proper burial.

John Ramsey "To think that they would, uh, withhold her body for proper burial was . . . was barbaric."

 

[BoldBear]

Oh I clearly see that a good part of the note was borrowed from various movies. I wouldn't exactly call it foreshadowing though.

If the intent of the RN was to remove the body from the home and have it found later then it was foreshadowing. It would explain why JBR was dead.

Another intent could have been to keep the Ramseys from calling the police so the intruder could get as far away from the crime scene as possible.

Some believe that the ransom note was a vendetta to hurt the Ramseys as much as possible.

There's always the possibility that this was an intruder who was completely insane and no one will ever be able to understand the motive.

If you know another purpose of the RN, please let me know.

As you well know, this whole thing was a perfect storm. The biggest pit in the gut, panicky, mistake was not finding the body within minutes of finding the ransom note. I tend to forget that detail because I focus on everything else. There's no way the killer could have foreseen that mistake. If one or more of the Ramseys had anything to do with this, can you imagine the sense of panic that must have been going through their mind(s) when that 911 call was made?

OMG I've been on the fence all this time about who did this and then it just clicked. I didn't expect to make up my mind tonight. I was watching an interview with Richard Walter last night from a different thread and he said that investigators get too close to the investigation to be able to solve the case. I think it's true because I just took a step back and some of the details have just become painfully obvious--the actions and the motive behind the actions. I'll have to think about it.

 

[OliviaG1996]

The "proper burial" is coincidental as its almost the same language the Ramsey's used when they claimed LE was holding their daughters remains so they couldn't have a proper burial.

John Ramsey "To think that they would, uh, withhold her body for proper burial was . . . was barbaric."

That quote is the reason I can't help but think JR had something to do with that note.

 

[Anti-K]

If the intent of the RN was to remove the body from the home and have it found later then it was foreshadowing. It would explain why JBR was dead.

Another intent could have been to keep the Ramseys from calling the police so the intruder could get as far away from the crime scene as possible.

Some believe that the ransom note was a vendetta to hurt the Ramseys as much as possible.

There's always the possibility that this was an intruder who was completely insane and no one will ever be able to understand the motive.

If you know another purpose of the RN, please let me know.

As you well know, this whole thing was a perfect storm. The biggest pit in the gut, panicky, mistake was not finding the body within minutes of finding the ransom note. I tend to forget that detail because I focus on everything else. There's no way the killer could have foreseen that mistake. If one or more of the Ramseys had anything to do with this, can you imagine the sense of panic that must have been going through their mind(s) when that 911 call was made?

OMG I've been on the fence all this time about who did this and then it just clicked. I didn't expect to make up my mind tonight. I was watching an interview with Richard Walter last night from a different thread and he said that investigators get too close to the investigation to be able to solve the case. I think it's true because I just took a step back and some of the details have just become painfully obvious--the actions and the motive behind the actions. I'll have to think about it.

Perhaps, the note was written to prevent the parents from finding the body, while scaring them enough to get them to call the police, who being presented with a hinky ransom note, would search the house and discover a pristine crime scene (wc). IOWs, maybe this crime was created for LE. Possibly to manipulate them, or mock them or just make them look bad. Etc.

The possible reasons an intruder may have had for committing this crime as he did are endless. I’m still amazed, after all these years, by the number of people who put up their hands and say, I can’t think of a reason why an intruder would do this; must have been the Ramseys.
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AK