who latched the door?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by tumble, Jul 26, 2006.

  1. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    In the '97 interview with JR he says

    "then I went from there into the cellar. Pull on the door, it was latched. I reach up and unlatched it, and then I saw the white blanket, "

    but we know from FW interview that he ALSO found the door latched. Opened it and looked inside.

    Whoever opened the door first(namely FW) must have relatched it. Is this plausible?
    He doesn't state that he relatched it though.
    In fact we also know that JR didn't know that FW had been looking inside this door. Could be that he never unlatched it the second time but KNEW it was latched(...because he himself latched it during the night...)
     
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  3. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    It could even be the case that FW didn't latch the door on his first visit to the room but JR latched it again after his "secret" visit to the room as has been speculated.

    FW may very well have noticed that JR unlatched the door at their second visit and come to think about this later. Very much so if he tried to explain to himself why he didn't see the white blanket when he looked inside.
     
  4. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    I am kind of surprised none has aswer this thread?

    Is it obvious to all of you that FW relatched the door?

    Also I have seen info the officer French saw this door latched at 8.00 that morning. If this is the case FW must have relatched the door. But some say French examined the basement as soon as he got to the house at 6.00. Which is correct??
    Feel I am talking to myself here, hmm not a good sign:rolleyes:
     
  5. Nuisanceposter

    Nuisanceposter Remembering Little Miss Christmas

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    The latch was a rectangular-shaped wooden block that spun on a nail to allow the door to be opened or held it shut.

    I assume it was latched when anyone, be he JR or FW, came across it, and they both reached up and spun the block back in place after they checked the room and shut the door. Perhaps the door did not remain closed without the block holding it shut.

    Why is your hinkymeter set off by the door being latched? I summed it up to force of habit - you spin it to open the door, you automatically spin it again when you shut the door.
     
  6. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    Because JR states that normally this door was NOT latched. Infact he talkes about how surprised he was to find the door latched just before opening it and finding JBR.
    He even states that this door was "stuck" anyway so there was no need to latch it.
    Also the latch was on the wrong side of the door meaning someone inside could not open the door if the latch was down, ie there is no good reason for latching this door, other than keeping the door shut(or keeping someone inside, god forbid...)

    Also I think if JR had a secret visit to the room relatching the door could very well have slipped his mind.
    Or FW didn't bother when he checked the room as the door was stuck anyway.

    I am very hooked up about this latch :confused:
     
  7. Rupert

    Rupert Former Member

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    Tumble,

    It is good to look for these "either/or"s. It's like the chair in front of the train room that Bluecrab noticed. I am not clear on the specific chronology, but if we can recall it with someone in the know here, then maybe we can detect who is lying (either John or Fleet).

    I recall that indeed the door didn't need to be latched, according to John. So why was it latched? To make it look normal?

    The fact that Fleet did not see the white blanket is very suspicious. Forget the lighting issue, it's too obvious to me. Why didn't Fleet look more into the room? For heaven's sake, a little girl was missing. They had time, they were waiting for the call. Strange.

    Also strange why the cop did not bother to open the door.

    I also wonder why the chair was placed in front of the door of the train room. This would not be normal in my mind. Maybe it was a signal?
     
  8. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    "Also the latch was on the wrong side of the door meaning someone inside could not open the door if the latch was down, ie there is no good reason for latching this door, other than keeping the door shut"

    tumble, you may have hit onto something!
     
  9. rashomon

    rashomon New Member

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    I believe Fleet White relatched it. I don't see anything suspicious in this action.
    What I find far more odd than the door found (re)latched is John's statement that a chair was blocking the door to the train room, but (as far as I'm informed) neither officer French nor Fleet White mentioned this.
     
  10. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    It was Patsy Ramsey who said the door is usually latched because she did not want the children in the wine cellar. She mentioned that she placed Christmas presents in there so the latch was closed to keep them out.

    The people who went down in the basement were:

    Officer Rick French: 6am...saw the door...did not open it.

    Fleet White: 6:15...saw the door, opened it, felt around for the light switch, could not find it...closed and latched the door.

    John Ramsey: 7-9am...only he knows whether he opens the door.

    John and Fleet: 1pm...John opens the door and immediately screams BEFORE turning the light on.
     
  11. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    It was Patsy Ramsey who said the door is usually latched

    This is good info, a pointer towards PR as the perp as she would be the only one who would think of latching this door.

    Fleet White: 6:15...saw the door, opened it, felt around for the light switch, could not find it...closed and latched the door.

    Is this a fact then great, we know. Is this his statement or your(Toltec) assumption?

    Where do I want to come with all this latch stuff.
    Basically I want to reason about if there was a "secret" visit by JR to the "wine cellar".
    This could also points to who the perp was...

    My initial concern about this arose to why/if FW had noticed something when JR found the body. I can't say exactly but a get a feeling that something was not right there and he felt it and remembered something later.
    Those who don't think he noticed anything you can stop reading now...

    Some has said that maybe the body was moved. This could very well be it.
    Although this would be highly dangerous and with little gain for JR to try something like this.

    Lets say the body was not moved. Then this two scenarios could absolutely cause FW to wonder..
    1. FW knew he latched the door, but the door was not latched when JR found the body
    or 2. FW knew he didn't latch the door after him but it was latched again when JR found the body.


    JR states that he was surprised that the door was latched when he tried to open it. This could very well be his recollection of his first "secret " attempt.
    If JR was the perp why would he be there? I can not find a good reason for him to go into the wine cellar(ie I am ruling out the moving JBR stuff)

    But if he was not the perp and actually found JBR on his basement excursion. He would be in a dilemma, and we know what he chose to do. And the latch could explain why FW grew concerned about the R's guilt and even point to PR being the perp.
     
  12. trixie

    trixie Former Member

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    First I would want to know how the latch came to be there. Was it there when the Ramseys bought the house or did they put it there after moving in?

    Then I have to point out that John Ramsey says he is surprised the door was latched because typically it was not. But then Patsy saying she kept it latched because she didn't want the children in there. Two opposing statements. If I had to choose who to believe regarding the latch it would be Patsy because she was home with the children and she gives a reason explaining her statement whereas I doubt John spent much time down in the basement around the wine cellar to even know how often it was or was not latched.

    tumble, have you ever seen a picture of the door and the latch?
     
  13. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    First I would want to know how the latch came to be there

    Good question.


    tumble, have you ever seen a picture of the door and the latch?

    No, just read the statements about it

    Two opposing statements

    Correct. Why not believe both. PR usually latched it. JR could not find any reason to latch it so he probably would not do it.
    Latching it was because keeping children away(i didn't think of this first).
    This would be in PR's mind and not JR's.
     
  14. Solace

    Solace New Member

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    He was asked about this and said he thought that the intruder purposely put the chair there to throw people off. When he was asked if he thought that was far fetched, John said, not at all (paraphrasing), this was a clever intruder who had done a lot of things on purpose. I am paraphrasing here, but you get the gist.
     
  15. trixie

    trixie Former Member

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    *********************************************************

    http://hellpainter.tripod.com/jbr/072basement.jpg

    tumble, try this link. You can see the latch at the top left.
     
  16. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    Thanks for the link trixie.

    What if this was the "punishment room"???
    Do something bad and you get locked in(maybe JBR did something very bad...)
    Scary thought...
     
  17. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    I doubt it.
    LHP said the bathroom was 'the punishment room'.
     
  18. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    The fact that Fleet did not see the white blanket is very suspicious. Forget the lighting issue, it's too obvious to me. Why didn't Fleet look more into the room? For heaven's sake, a little girl was missing. They had time, they were waiting for the call. Strange.

    Seems FW was looking for an alive JBR, not a body lying on the ground.
    When he saw the room was dark and quiet he was satisfied.
    Remember, he was even calling her name.
     
  19. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    Yes, NC, she did say that. It might explain a few things about JB's poor toilet habits.

    Some have theorized it was the "meeting place" for John and JB, others for Burke and JB, depending on who you ask.
     
  20. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    If JR found JBR on his "secret" trip to the wine cellar I really don't think he would relatch the door. This was not his habit and he knew that the latch was useless.
    If he found JBR he would be very upset further indicating that he would not think of such a thing.
    Arndt noticed JR was visibly shaken after this trip to the basement.

    FW may very well have relatched it thinking if this is the way they do it, leave it as I found it.

    So here is my theory about the latch

    1. PR is the perp. After placing JBR in the basement she latched the door out of habit. She is the only person that would latch that door. (An interesting side effect is that Burke would have a problem latching it, he could not reach the latch.)

    2 Officer French find the door latched. No action on his part.

    3. FW find the door latched. Opens it and relatches it.

    4. JR is looking around in the basement somewhere around 9.00 and want to have a look in the wine cellar. He grabs the door and pull but it won't open. Surprised he find the door latched. He opens it and finds JBR. In a state of shock he closes the door behind him and forgets to relatch it.

    5. At 1.00 JR and FW goes to the wine cellar. JR can't stand the tension of knowing his daugter is lying there and want to get it over with.
    But after he opens the door and he finds JBR, FW is confused. There is something that is not right here. His actions of picking up the duct tape and looking at it with a big question mark on his face speaks of this. Later he remembers 'the door wasn't latched'. He speaks to JR about it but JR won't cooperate, he know the R's are hiding something.
     
  21. rashomon

    rashomon New Member

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    So when John went down into the basement together with Fleet White, the wine cellar door was unlatched?
     

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