Who molested/abused Jonbenet? #2

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by madeleine, Jun 7, 2011.

  1. proust20

    proust20 Well-Known Member

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    There are the suitcase, the trash bags for trip to MI, the packed cases for the cruise, and JR previously put things aboard the plane (gifts?). I still don't understand the brief trip to Charlevoix. Also, where was the comforter kept?

    FW said that he removed a glass shard from the top of the Samsonite. But was that before or after he moved the suitcase? It is its position in the CS photo that allowed LS to invent his IDI. But should the original location have allowed this theory if it were farther from the window? Curiously, in this rat's nest of a house, the broken glass had mostly been swept from the floor (by PR?), without taking care to fix the broken window.

    JR's tale of breaking through the window one night while the family was in MI is hard to believe. PR was not there when it took place. But why make it up? Then again, why not tell BPD about the window earlier? An aspect which is not usually discussed is when the Rs thought that it was the best time for the body to be discovered. Was it always meant to be JR?

    The RN already offers a red herring with the 118k. This was meant to implicate a business associate. "We do respect your business" Such a particular sum would be known to few. PR 'finding' the RN on the spiral staircase was a way of pointing to LHP. The R's forensic smarts had them invite people over on the 26th. PR knew enough to wear the same clothes. JR didn't get to the top without being able to think and react strategically.
     
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  2. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    From Lou Smit's Presentation Crime Scene Photo Train Room Window
    [​IMG]

    04-14-2000 Larry King Live with former Detective Steve Thomas
    Glass shard on the outside sill
    [​IMG]
    Because FW's shard is on the inside as JR closed the window.

    LHP says Patsy never asked her to sweep up any broken glass and she never observed any.

    JR's story about the broken window is fake. It's all fabricated to hide a prior staging, which some think was undertaken by BR?
     
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  3. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    LHP says Patsy never asked her to clean up any glass!!

    .
     
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  4. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    July 21, 1998 Linda Wilcox (former Ramsey housekeeper) interview on Peter Boyles Show
    So at one point prior to Christmas the wine-cellar was unused. Contrary to both Patsy and John's account?
     
  5. proust20

    proust20 Well-Known Member

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    The entire story line dreamt up by the Rs relies upon the movies. JR's tale of the broken window is a sit-com with Daddy having all sorts of wacky problems maintaining the household while the Missus is away. There's an infantile aspect with JR stripping down to break in. It's not surprising that Lockheed Martin readily found him to be a corporate liability. With all their resources, Lockheed must have conducted their own investigation.

    Tellingly, the Rs denied the autopsy findings about chronic SA. Not to do so would involve them in the felonies. They could have called on Dr. Beuf to confirm their assertions; but, they decided against this. In addition, the Rs contest the certainty of when and if JB ate pineapple. This is necessary in order to affirm their fantasy timeline. Although her fingerprints are actually on some evidence, the bowl, this time, PR pointed to the too large spoon which the perfect hostess would never serve. It is likely that BR got the spoon; and, he could have made the same error in selecting too large an appropriate size with the Bloomies?

    One idiocy of the theory of LS has the intruder(s) relying on an improvised way of going back out the broken window. Firstly, the intruder(s) would be assuming that the escape from the house would be made with JB in tow, and this would entail a particular plan and not an ad hoc solution. But, what if the suitcase weren't there to assist in fleeing an unforeseen murder? What then? Wouldn't the light have to be turned on to find the suitcase or something else suitable to climb up to the window? As Linda Wilcox pointed out, the WC has no windows. All in all, the basement does seem to have been BR's domain.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
  6. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    Makes you wonder what the deal was between LS and JR after they knelt and prayed?

    I agree with you, i.e. how would any intruder know there was a viable exit from the basement?

    I reckon BR staged a fake crime-scene down in the basement which JR and PR dismantled and had to concoct fake accounts for all the unexplained forensic evidence, broken window, suitcase, blocking chair, glass, etc.

    Which also explains why BR and DS were debating whether JonBenet had been manually strangled?

    No smoking gun but enough for me to think the case is BDI.

    One question to Fleet White would seal the deal for me, as he was present, even making Burke's bed for him. Just consider what FW observed?

    .
     
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  7. proust20

    proust20 Well-Known Member

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    BDI explains much. How does this theory fit the time line? JB died about 1 AM. That is the time she was asphyxiated. However, that puts the time of the head blow close to midnight. (Assuming the blow came first.) So, the head blow occurred near the time that JB ate the pineapple. This leads back to the pineapple snatching motive, with which I have difficulty. While this moment of impulsive rage is possible as a motive, it doesn't account for the garotte.

    If BR did bash JB around midnight, he had an hour before the strangling. Would a 9 year old be able to stay cool and collected that long? JB was not dragged about. Could he carry her downstairs? If not, then BR took JB downstairs before the head blow? Although, that would distance the supposed pineapple snatch. Certainly, BR would have time to stage; but, at some point the parents became aware. Did he alert them or they found out by themselves? In either case, the Rs could only have known after 1 AM, which is the time of death.

    But much of this changes radically if one or both parents were not asleep. There's always PR wearing the same outfit. If it is BDI and the Rs hadn't in fact retired, it should seem they'd have known quickly what had happened and taken control of the staging? This returns to the riddle of whether or not the strangulation was part of the staging.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
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  8. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    The elaborate stories, the minute I saw Patty on Larry King, I knew she was lying. She had an answer for everything. People telling the truth, often don't remember every detail. Patty had a story and answer for everything. She never said, "I don't know.", or "I don't remember.". She had a fake smile on her face. It was like watching an elaborate skit.

    I don't know what happened to JBR, or who killed her, but I do know that Patty knew exactly what happened.
     
  9. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    Your account is as good as anyone elses, as only the Ramsey's know what happened that Christmas.

    So the exact timeline is open for debate, then there is the precise sequence of events, e.g.
    1. Sexual Assault (SA),
    2. Head Blow (HB),
    3. Ligature Aspyxiation (LA)

    or
    1. Manual Strangulation (MS)
    2. Head Blow (HB)
    3. Staged Sex Assault (SSA)
    4. Ligature Aspyxiation (LA)


    So you have similar events taking place with just the particular sequence differing and offering another motive, i.e. Sexual or Anger?

    Leaving the details for another occassion, looks to me as if BR did some initial staging in the basement, then Patsy and/or John revised BR's fake crime-scene with one of their own, which could have then been altered to fit with a kidnapping scenario?

    The exact time of JonBenet's death is unknown, but I assume she was dead by 2am? So the Ramsey's had four hours to tweak their fake crime-scene.

    Give how amateur the staging is with all the mistakes I doubt either of the parents were initially responsible.

    Although you could make a case for PDI, you have to ask why all the mistakes, why implicate Burke?

    IMO the Ligature Asphyxiation was intended as staging because JonBenet was likely in a coma, but breathing, with no obvious sign of injury, despite being whacked on the head, which might have been intended staging itself, but failed?

    So if you remove the LA this leaves the SA and HB as unexplained, alternatively you might just have HB followed by a fake SA?

    Then the question is why a fake SA, just get JonBenet to hospital ASAP?

    so SA followed by a HB appears more likely?

    I prefer SA then MS with the HB being attempted staging.

    Alternatively if Patsy whacked JonBenet in anger with the rest being staging why does she not get JonBenet medical attention why double down with further injuries?

    Has to be the sexual assault, turning up at any hospital, with JonBenet presenting internal injuries means all three Ramsey's being arrested on the spot?

    So we can establish a SA and from the amateur staging infer BR was responsible?

    Everything else is staging and smoke and mirrors by the parents?

    .
     
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  10. proust20

    proust20 Well-Known Member

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    The precise sequence of violent events remains an enduring puzzle. The Rs were forced to improvise a scenario of a kidnapping gone wrong. There had to be a reason why the kidnapper killed JB and left her in the WC. IMO this is why the SSA. Supposedly, the kidnapper could not control their urges and dispatched JB in the remotest (safest) area of the house. Also, there could have been a naive assumption that the previous SA could be disguised with a fresh assault. If JB were hovering between life and death, taking her to the hospital would only disclose what JB had experienced.

    SSA with actual SA is not coincidental. JB had already been the victim of numerous crimes on the 25th. The previous crimes flow into the murder. The staging may be crude; but. it indicates a sustained effort. BR doesn't seem capable of carrying this project out by himself. The fashioning of the ligature was methodical. Would an enraged 9 year old take such step?

    In this macabre multiple choice, I'd opt for SSA, LA, and HB as the final step.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2021
  11. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    The SSA says nothing about the kidnapper's motive, particularly if we know its staged.

    I'm assuming BR redresses JonBenet, e.g. his long johns and the size-12's and moves JonBenet down to the basement. he was mature enough to carry/slide her down the stairs, consider the bruising and marks on JonBenet's body, so far unexplained, but being dragged about in the basement might offer a reason for the contusions, etc?

    No, Patsy did this her fibers are embedded into the ligature knotting and on the sticky side of the duct-tape placed over JonBenet's mouth.

    Not a smoking gun but close enough. So Burke staged JonBenet down in the basement, broke the window, possibly moved the chair beneath the window.

    The rest is the parents handywork. Alternatively Burke redressed JonBenet as above in her bedroom, leaving her on her bed or on the floor?

    Then he tells Patsy JonBenet has had an accident, unless JonBenet screams bringing Patsy forward, but then Burke would have no room for staging?

    If you rule Burke out of staging JonBenet then that leaves PDI or JDI or some combination.

    Meaning JR or PR redressed JonBenet in Burke's long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear, just exactly what was meant by this staging is unclear.

    Most folks think the SSA applies to a PDI case with Patsy wanting to deflect attention from herself?

    If the case is PDI, this makes you wonder why JR is never done appearing in documentaries?

    .
     
  12. proust20

    proust20 Well-Known Member

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    JR had a difficult time dealing with Beth's death. The Holidays can evoke many memories. JR repeated the trauma of loosing one daughter by loosing another
     
  13. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    Yes, he lost his daughter, his wife, and his life. Nobody wanted to employ him, the Republican Party blackballed him, etc.

    JR found out the hard way that money cannot cover up, and buy you anything!

    No amount of Machaivellian double dealing can ever bring the past back.

    .
     
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