Who put the second pony tail in JBR hair?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by blackcatsarecool, May 26, 2019.

  1. blackcatsarecool

    blackcatsarecool Member

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    The newly released photo of JBR is supposidly the last known photo of her alive, taken at the whites party. JBR hair is clearly in a half pony tail with the lower half of the hair loose. According to the autopsy report, JBR had two pony tails in her hair at the time of death.
    Autopsy report regarding the scalp and hair: "The scalp is covered by long blonde hair which is fixed in two ponytails, one on top of the head secured by a cloth hair tie and blue elastic band, and one in the lower back of the head secured by a blue elastic band."

    When was her hair put in the second pony tail and by whom?
     

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  2. David Rogers

    David Rogers Active Member

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    Don’t trust that photo. We don’t know when it was taken for sure. We don’t know who took it and we don’t know if it was cropped or altered in any way.
     
  3. blackcatsarecool

    blackcatsarecool Member

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    If you notice in the photo, she is wearing the same scrunchy in her hair as the crime scene photos. I do believe this photo is legitimate. Her clothing also correlates with what JR said she was wearing in his book, Death of Innocence.
     
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  4. blackcatsarecool

    blackcatsarecool Member

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    Same scrunchy in her hair.
     

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  5. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the two hair ties were put on in the same way?
     
  6. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Tadpole12,
    Most likely as both were attached by elastic bands. Just read an article where John says none of the family's dna was found on her body, patently John is being selective as Burke Ramsey's touch-dna was found on the Barbie Nightgown and the owners identity of any dna deposits on the size-12's have not all been released.

    I guess its possible that JonBenet wore those hair-ties to the White's Party, otherwise I reckon Patsy dressed JonBenet's hair fixing it with the vacation flight the next day in mind?

    So it looks like JonBenet was readied for bed and had her pineapple snack then she made it to her bedroom, what happened next is a mystery, but the state of her bedroom leaves little to the imagination.

    Looks to me like a fight took place in her bedroom?

    .
     
  7. AdequateSizeAttache

    AdequateSizeAttache New Member

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    I'm not convinced of this. Why was she still wearing her party top and the cloth hair tie? Am I the only mom who can't stand the thought of wearing day clothes in bed? I can understand a girl sleeping with hair partly or fully pulled back in a pony, but the cloth hair tie is decorative and redundant - there was an elastic under it. It's got to be lumpy and uncomfortable to sleep with a cloth hair tie high up on the head. I would imagine if she were readied for bed, it would have been removed (either by her or Patsy). Just a guess.

    Interesting you would call it her snack when her prints were not on it.
     
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  8. insearchoflight

    insearchoflight Well-Known Member

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    Seems the bottom “second” pony used the same type blue elastic band. So perhaps it was the original style but then the bottom elastic band fell off at the party, she was in the photo, later mom redid the bottom.
     
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  9. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    AdequateSizeAttache,
    Good points, you might be correct, who knows? All depends if JonBenet wore two ponytails to the White's Party, its an open question?

    Could one of the White's guests has a photograph showing JonBenet from behind thus revealing how many ponytails she had?

    Some folks think Patsy dresed her hair for a quick getaway the next morning, i.e. no fuss with her hair, just get dressed an leave asap?

    If what you propose is right : lumpy and uncomfortable then it just underlines how ad hoc the staging was.

    The White Gap Top is on her to match the parents version of events, note she was found with her Barbie Gown next to her and her pink pajama bottoms she wore the night before have vanished, go figure.

    Her prints are not on it because she was not tall enought to reach into the fridge and take it out, either Patsy or Burke did that, and the serving spoon removes any need to touch the bowl.

    .
     
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  10. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    IDK back ponytail pre-bed, to wash your face without getting long hair wet?
     
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  11. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 Well-Known Member

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    This is what I believe. I recently saw a photo of JB at the White's with her hair in a topknot ponytail ONLY- the rest hanging down long. Patsy said that she usually pulled JB's longhair back into a pony at the nape of her neck for bed. I think given that JB was likely tired after returning home that night, Patsy did not brush out her hair, but simply pulled the part that was hanging long into the usual bedtime ponytail. The top hair tie matched her outfit that night- black/white/red. I believe the lower one was blue. At bedtime, it would not matter what color the hair tie was. I think too much has been made of the "double ponytails". I do not think they had any hidden meaning, or were made to facilitate access to her neck, for staging, or anything other that the simplest explanation: The first ponytail simply left in place because it was late and the lower one made as part of the usual bedtime routine. Ockham's Razor.
     
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  12. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    DeeDee249,
    That's more or less how I read it, just not certain about when the lower ponytail was applied, you say there was just one visible in the photograph taken at the White's, then this means the lower ponytail is a red flag, as it contradicts the parents claims about putting JonBenet straight to bed?

    .
     
  13. Veronica Lodge

    Veronica Lodge Member

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    Yes to all the above. I am in agreement with DeeDee249 also.

    UKGuy, her bedroom was even messier then the rest of the house, which is saying something! Was Patsy ever asked about the mess and hairties all over the floor? Why are her trophies knocked over and messy?? Did she go running downstairs to get away from Patsy in search of John, but found Burke first (or vice versa?).
     
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  14. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Veronica Lodge,
    Some context:

    BPD Crime Scene Photo Discussion - JonBenet's Bedroom
    [​IMG]
    JonBenet's Pink Pajama Top worn 12/25
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    JonBenet's "Potholder Weaving Loom" as it rested on her bedside dresser.
    [​IMG]
    Continued In Next Post Due to Image Limits Per Post.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  15. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Veronica Lodge,

    Continuation From Above Post:
    Jonbenet's Bedroom
    [​IMG]

    JonBenet Ramsey's Closet
    [​IMG]

    JonBenet's Pageant Awards
    [​IMG]

    So JonBenet has an extra ponytail why?
    There was a box of spilt hair ties found on the floor of her bedroom the next morning, some say these are loom fabric pieces, some dismabiguation required? The Stretching Loopers that come with the House Craft Weaving Loom are identified by Patsy who told us were scattered about JonBenet's bedroom floor, e.g. cloth rings?

    Does the extra ponytail represent staging using a Cloth Ring, AKA a Stretching Looper along with with a blue elastic band, i.e. someone not used to dressing hair thought the Cloth Ring was the same as the cloth hairtie in the upper ponytail?

    To my eye the size-12's, longjohns and the extra ponytail using a Stretching Looper looks like the work of a male, who knows little regarding female dress and appearance?

    .
     
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  16. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    IDK
    Potholder Weaving Loom loops
    Potholder Weaving Loom loops - Google Search

    Is there an element of elasticity in the loop, as Meyer details?
    The loop stretches the length of the 7 - 10" loom?
    loops are described as nylon.
    add: oh, and cotton as well.

    I've never done this craft.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  17. midwest mama

    midwest mama Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Loopers do have stretch, but IMO would not be described as an "elastic band". They are primarily made of woven cloth fibers.

    JBRs autopsy report states there is a "blue elastic band" around each ponytail, and the top one also has a cloth hair tie. IMO, because the same type of band was identified as used to secure the ponytails, and it appears the lower ponytail was not in place in the photo recently identified as "the last photo" of Jonbenet, I believe it was the same person who, at each separate time, knew exactly where to get the bands for the hairdos. That says Patsy to me. And now I believe Burkes account of seeing JonBenet walk upstairs upon their return home. IMO, PR did prep JB for bed. And at this point, I do not think neither PR or Burke had any malice or motive to harm JB.

    What I don't understand is why this account couldn't have been solidified with LE, since it would have still allowed for all the rest of the scenario that was eventually created. The only thing this wouldn't allow for is JRs DNA to be found on her at the time of the body recovery. But him having carried her up to bed would, and both PR and JR stuck to the story of John carrying her up and JB being zonked as PR got her into bed for the night.
     
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  18. Veronica Lodge

    Veronica Lodge Member

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    Thankyou sir, for all the effort you put in here for me. (Ok, so I had to google "dismabiguation", so I've learnt something today, haha.) Look I think Patsy is definitely more comfortable talking about the loom kit, then elastic bands in JonBenet's hair - again because that second hair tie was put in when she was awake and being readied for bed. Much like the pineapple. That's why she's leapt on that bus. But midwest mama is on the money with differences, and I agree it was hair tie elastic, not a loom band loop in her hair. The dramatic "Oh God" and crying during the interview is a great distractor and time killer too - I noticed she does that on the 911 tape when the voices of John and Burke are supposedly heard. Can't remember how to turn the lamp on? Hmmm yes, totally understandable and believable Patsy, sure.

    Yes! This zonked story was all for John's benefit - not Patsy's (or Burkes). In fact it makes Patsy look like a bad mother, and forces her to lie in her interviews and forget simple things (like how a lamp is turned on).
     
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  19. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    midwest mama,
    Autopsy Report, Excerpt
    What do you think, was the lower ponytail only secured by a blue elastic band. or did it also have a cloth hair tie?

    If there is an absence of a cloth hair tie does this reflect pragmatism on the ponytail creators behalf, i.e. is the cloth hair tie decorative so when JonBenet is sleeping nobody cares if it is missing?

    It cannot represent staging by Patsy since she goes along with the White Gap Top scenario, which presumably the lower ponytail contradicts?

    So as you suggest Patsy added the lower ponytail as she prepared JonBenet for bed, no doubt brushing her hair, with small talk about the vacation or the Red Turtleneck?

    Its difficult to see what motive either BR or JR would have for adding an extra ponytail, so its back to Patsy?

    .
     
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  20. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Veronica Lodge,
    No problem, sure I try to avoid large words but sometimes one is needed to avoid confusion. I'll review Patsy's statements again to double check that Patsy is playing smoke and mirrors with her comments about the loom bands?

    Patsy knows all about the bedside lamp in an interview she says she purchased it on a visit to New York in the weeks running up to Christmas as JonBenet's overhead light stopped working via the wall switch and that you had to enter the room to switch it on at the bedside!

    The thing is for PDI folks they can say Patsy forgot about the lower ponytail in the rush and panic of staging, but she also forgot about the pineapple snack, could be JR and PR simply needed a narrative to cover most of their tracks?

    .
     
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