"Who would leave children that young alone?"

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by Texana, Oct 14, 2008.

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  1. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    Here's an article from today's Houston Chronicle that is rather eerie in similiarities: A mother was arrested for leaving a 4 year old and one year old twins alone in an apartment while she went out drinking.

    One of the LE authorities said, "Who would leave children that young alone?"

    Answer is obvious, of course, the McCanns.

    And again, this just underscores that the McCanns escaped consequences because of their education and social status.

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6058546.html
     
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  3. daffodil

    daffodil New Member

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    When I was a child we used to have our yearly vacation at a holiday camp where all entertainment ie cinema,bars,theatre etc were on the camp.Nannies were employed to cycle up and down the chalet lines listening for crying children,if parents were using this nanny system there would be a note in the chalet window with a timetable of where the parents would be at any given time and on hearing a crying child the particular venue would be alerted and a message flashed up eg "baby crying in chalet 55",the parents would then go back to see to the child.I suppose that is why I do not attribute the term "neglect" to what the McCanns did, having grown up with that situation (my parents never used this system by the way).
     
  4. badhorsie

    badhorsie Mouth operational, brain elsewhere...

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    She should move to England and marry a doctor, she would then be financially rewarded for neglecting her children:furious::furious::furious:
     
  5. badhorsie

    badhorsie Mouth operational, brain elsewhere...

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    Daffodil, Mark Warner in PDL specifically did not provide that service as it was unsafe.
    They provided an evening creche or a babysitter which they chose not to use as they didn't want to leave their children with strangers.
    However they were quite happy to do this during the day:mad:

    I don't know why they took their children on this holiday as the MCs themselves admit to leaving the children in the creche all day, then left them home alone at night.

    This idea, of leaving your children at home while you go out, is alien to me. Yet Clarence Mitchell said it was a British trait.
    I don't know anyone who does that..:mad:
     
  6. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    This is what i dont get. Why take your children on holiday and put them in kids clubs all day and leave them on there own all night? I mean what is the definition of "family holiday" for the McCanns?

    I just wish Madeleine had been left at home with a relative who would put Madeleines needs first instead of running off to the pub each night and leaving there children in danger :(
     
  7. Boyz_Mum

    Boyz_Mum New Member

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    I don't participate in this discussion, but decided to post anyway. I can't imagine taking a "holiday" or "vacation" with my children and leaving them alone, I can't imagine leaving them behind under any circumstances- even with a hotel/resort nanny. We had a "honeymoon" and "us time" ended there. JMO.
     
  8. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    Well, exactly. But I think the McCanns really wanted to have a vacation with the children because that's the image they had of themselves as parents. The reality is, they were much more the kind of people who would have been happier with a nanny or using the service--or taking a vacation alone. '

    Why didn't they use the nighttime baby sitting service or put the children in the night time creche? Because they didn't want to mess with putting the children to sleep at night when they woke up after power napping at the creche or getting overtired with strangers.

    I remember one early interview where Kate said that the thing that was helping her hang on was the knowledge that they were "responsible parents."

    So the thing helping Kate get out of bed and put one foot in front of the other, was feeling she was a responsible parent? Do you get that? That is some mighty serious self-justification and self-defense going on there. If they were truly at peace with themselves as parents, Kate wouldn't need to tell herself that. She would know it. But she has to tell herself--because as an intelligent, professionally educated woman, she sees the discrepancy between what she did, and what she wants to be.

    So how does she comfort herself? By saying "I know we were responsible parents."
     
  9. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    Maybe another problem was that the evening creche i believe finished at 11 pm..and maybe they felt that would interfere with there "entertainment"?
     
  10. april4sky

    april4sky It is not who is right, but what is right, that is

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    from the article......

    A Houston-area mother has been charged with child abandonment, accused of leaving her three young daughters alone overnight in their apartment while she was out drinking.
    *****
    Big difference!!
    This had nothing to do with baby listening. These children were left alone OVERNIGHT.

    The McCanns arranged to do their own baby listening and were not charged with abandonment because it wasn't.
    By law in Europe the baby listening system is legal - and still is.

    Googling Hotels/baby listening pulls up many places that provide this service.

    And for the record I don't aprove of it.
     
  11. rashomon

    rashomon New Member

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    Good post,Texana.
    When the McCann is case made the headlines, my first thought was "OMG, how can the parents go on living with such a feeling of guilt, having left their three small childen unattended and it ended it in such a horrible tragedy?" Thoughts like "If only we had not done .." would haunt them for the rest of their life, and my feeling was that the restless activity shown by them, alerting the whole world to finding Madeleine was also a (psychologically explainable) effort on their part to run away from this terrible feeling of guilt. As believers, having the Pope consoling them may also have been perceived by them as an act of "forgiveness".

    This is a most baffling case, leaving many questions open.

    - if it was an intruder, then this was an extreme risk taker, daring to snatch a child from her bedroom with small siblings present in that room, in a resort milling with people, at a time of day in May when it was not yet fully dark.

    - if it was the parents, they equally would be extreme risk takers, for they, within a narrow time frame and running the danger of being detected, had to take the body to a place where it most likely would not be found.

    The last time Madeleine was seen alive in public (confirmed by eye witnesses other than McCanns or their friends) was at 5.30, at the creche.

    Kate's alert that the child was missing from her bed was around 10:00 pm.

    Texana, do you have any theory as to what happened?
     
  12. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    With all respect...leaving your children for four or five hours isnt much different to leaving your children over night. As for this baby listening service..you cant listen if your a considerable way away from them. The McCanns couldnt hear if there children was crying, they couldnt tell if there child walked out of the room when there a sleep walker. The resort considered this practice UNSAFE. They was told by the resort manager NOT to leave there children alone. Its also highly debatable how often these children were even checked - especially as the parents were in fact supposed to be further away some nights.

    For the record I live in Europe. For the record I have been all over most of it in Europe. I have several holiday brochures here from the national companies. And i have NEVER seen any of them offer a service such as the one you suggest is common here. Maybe because...its the norm on holiday family holidays to take your children out with you - to spend time as a FAMILY!.

    As for the person who said they saw nothing wrong with abandoning your children for hours because they used to have a system at Butlins where people rode up and down. Yes..I am sure we all remember the "Good Ole days" and the Hovis and Warburtons adverts ... but the world isnt like that any more. I am sure in those days many of us kept our doors unlocked all day and would let the kids play out on there own more than they do these days. And im sure that using that service kids were checked more often than the McCann kids were.

    With more and more people having the internet etc we are becoming more and more aware of the dangers people face. Most people react to this but the McCanns when warned against leaving there children still chose to do so.

    One thing I cant help thinking - when I go on holidays i hire a safe for my valuables to keep them safe and locked up. And yet the McCanns couldnt even keep the door to there apartment locked which held the most precious things they had..allegedly.

    Personally I still dont believe they went out and left the door unlocked. MOO
     
  13. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    Was it confirmed she was at the creche at 5.30 tho? Because if your relying on Charlotte Pennington ive seen two different versions of her story.

    Btw about them being believers - Kates mum said she didnt know why Kate went to see the Pope because she wasnt particularly religious.
     
  14. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    You know, hindsight is a wonderful thing but as you say, if you google hotel + baby listening you'll get tons of hits. It's really common in Europe. There are different ways of doing it. Some places rent the parents a baby monitor, but these are only suitable within a small range. Others send a member of staff around to walk around and listen at the door of the rooms or apartment. You often see this in hotels. They mark up a sheet on a clipboard to say they've checked - we've used this ourselves on vacation. You tell reception where you'll be (e.g. in the bar)and if they hear a baby crying, they contact you there. What the McCanns did was a step up from this since they actually went into the apartment to check the kids. The irony is, if they had used the hotels baby listening service, Madeleine may not have been discovered missing for another couple of hours and yet many people would have found their arrangements more acceptable!
     
  15. april4sky

    april4sky It is not who is right, but what is right, that is

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    Respectfully snipped.....
    Stretching things a bit Isabella? - The children were not left for 4 or 5 hrs.

    And there is a very big difference between what the McCanns did and this mother who left her children alone without any arrangements - OVERNIGHT.
    One is abandonment and the other baby listening.
    And in Europe one is illegal and one isn't.

    As for not hearing the children - This is no different than any other similar baby listening service where nannies walk around and listen at the door.
    And the same would apply for your other reasons too.

    Mark Warner did offer a baby listening service at the resort at one time. According to reports it was discontinued as it was too spread out, which suggests if it hadn't been they would still be operating the system.

    Isabella can you provide a link please that confirms the McCanns were told by the resort manager not to leave their children alone - I have seen this repeated many times but never yet seen any confirmation of it.

    And you may not have a brochure that advertises baby listening but you do have a computer - google will find some.
    You could also try the other Mark Warner resorts.
     
  16. lonetraveler

    lonetraveler Well-Known Member

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    ---
    Just dropped in to check on this thread and was curious about your statement regarding "baby listening" that the McCanns arranged for their children. I was not aware that they had a method of "baby listening". What was the system? I must have missed something. I thought that they only tooks turns once in a while to go and check on the children. I was not aware that they had a method of actually "hearing" the children. Baby Monitor? What?
     
  17. lonetraveler

    lonetraveler Well-Known Member

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    ---
    I personally do not find any method acceptable for leaving toddlers unattended for any amount of time. I don't see how any intelligent, educated, professional parents could justify in their own minds that what they did was acceptable. Good parents? BS.
     
  18. Boyz_Mum

    Boyz_Mum New Member

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    I had not heard of "baby listening services" until reading here. Thanks for the education. FWIW, it's not a service I would be comfortable using, with my kids the rule is usually, "if they're too quiet, they are up to something", even when they're supposed to be sleeping, too many things can happen. JMO.
     
  19. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Well all I can say is that we all have different opinions about what makes good parents and let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

    I think the key is that the McCanns didn't think their kids would be in danger. I read a lengthy article about this written by a female lawyer whose name escapes me. It was an excellent article and it argued the ins and outs from a legal and sociological standpoint. The bottom line is that as parents, we take risk assessments all the time. We decide whether it's safe for our children to cross a road on their own, whether it's safe for them to play in the graden unsupervised, safe to come home from a friend's house after dark, etc.

    The McCanns weren't the only parents who put their kids to bed and went to the restaurant, nor will they be the last. I understand that British and Dutch parents do this habitually on vacation. At the end of the day, with hindsight, they made a bad judgement and they have to live with the consequences. However, there is really nothing to be gained from beating them up about it day in and day out for years after the event. The only thing that will achieve is to make the beater-up feel better I suppose.

    I've found peoples' reactions to this fascinating at times. I never realised that there were so many self-righteous parents! I remember one "lady" (I do use the term loosely) and I think she was either on this forum or the Mirror forum. Her kids weren't babies but she was so keen to demonstrate what a great mother she was that she claimed she got up and went into their bedrooms to check they were ok several times every night. Imagine that? Personally I found it a bit OCD and I can't imagine the lack of sleep would help her energy levels for good parenting either OTOH, she might have been exaggerating - a little :rolleyes:
     
  20. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Well that's true, but OTOH, there's a healthy balance. Kids of 2+ aren't likely to suffer cot deaths and they are big enough to sit up if they are sick. I fussed with my first born and checked he was breathing every ten minutes but after that, I grew a bit of common sense :)

    Lots of people have kids who go to bed after tea and then sleep all night. I don't know many people who obsessively check their toddlers during the night.
     
  21. Boyz_Mum

    Boyz_Mum New Member

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    I don't mean this as a self righteous thing, but after Jessica Lunsford's abduction, I did get up and check on the kids many times during the night. OCD? Most likely. (I also don't mean my other comments about leaving the kids alone in the hotel room as being self righteous and hope I don't come across that way.)

    When something like the abduction of a child takes place, at home, on vacation or on their way home from school, it just makes me (personally) try to be more aware and enhances my OCD tendencies. :blowkiss:
     
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