Why A Scarf?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by capps, Jul 29, 2005.

  1. capps

    capps New Member

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    I heard it mentioned on this forum and I believe in one of JR's interviews that he put a scarf in JonBenet's coffin. I often wondered,with all the momentos he probably had of JB during her short 6 years of life ...what special meaning this scarf was? Does any one know?

    Also ... is it true she was buried wearing her pageant crown?
     
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  3. capps

    capps New Member

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    Well,I guess I'll answer my own question ...

    I finally got DOI from the library,so I'll be reading it over the week end. I looked up the scarf,and except for Patsy saying that John wrapped this scarf around JonBenet like a blanket,nothing was mentioned about what this scarf meant to JR and JB. And yes ... the crown was put on JonBenet just before she was buried.

    But all you posters already knew that ... didn't ya.
     
  4. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    Sorry Capps, I havent got DOI but did have a quick look online to see if JonBenet was wearing a crown when she was buried, I thought she had but wasnt sure. Anyway I didnt get too far and the kids beckoned so that was the end of that!
    I might see if my library has DOI too, dont want to buy it, but wouldnt mind reading it.
    I didnt know anything about the scarf.
     
  5. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    It is not only true JonBenet was buried wearing her own pageant crown; she was also buried with a second crown, one she never won for herself but which belonged to Kristine Griffin, the daughter of Pam Griffin, JonBenet's pageant costume designer. The crown was a "bucket crown," the classic kingly type with metal arches and fabric inside the arches. So, basically, JonBenet was buried in a pageant gown and with two crowns, even though the pageants were the least important part of her life according to Patsy. At the very least, this set of facts proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Patsy lies. No normal parent buries their children in clothing and props the child had only minimal interest in. I dare say no other child in the history of America has ever been buried with two crowns in the coffin.
     
  6. BrendaStar

    BrendaStar New Member

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    I remember when John put the scarf in JBR's coffin, there were a lot of remarks made to its possible previous prurient use.

    I remember JBR was married with the pagent crown, but didn't know there was another in her coffin. It's begining to sound like the Egyptians and their preparations for the next world.
     
  7. capps

    capps New Member

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    Why_nutt,

    Although I don't think Patsy did it ... what you stated in your post,was also what I was thinking.Also,since nobody knows 100 percent who killed JonBenet,the Ramsey's,if innocent,doesn't know if JB being paraded in the pageants,didn't bring about a pedophile that watched her,and killed her.

    No ... I would not have buried Jonbenet "pageant style". To each their own I guess ...
     
  8. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    My hed is developing detour deadend cracks in it after 8.5 years of thinking about this case, but I seem to recall that the wording in DOI was something to the effect that JR had purchased this beautiful scarf for JonBenet but had never given it to her. My hed asks why not, Christmas would have been a perfect time to do so. THEN JR tucks it around JonBenets neck in the casket. I believe 'tucked' was the word used in DOI, someone correct me if I err here. WHY dig it up or out of wherever it was kept prior to the murder, and put it in the casket with her.

    I betcha forensics could determine if it had been crinkled up and used as a comfort for an erotic device, or IF it had been lying undisturbed in a dresser drawer forever.
     
  9. capps

    capps New Member

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    Camper,

    Per DOI pg.39
    "Then it was John's turn. He recently purchased a beautiful silk scarf,and he tucked it around JonBenet as if surrounding her with a final blanket of love."

    Very touching. But Patsy has a little background about everything else that was put in the coffin ... special gold bracelet,large gold cross,and pageant tiara. With John's there was no background about the scarf,except for it being recently purchased.For what? For whom? Was it his? Purchased recently,like before JB was murdered or after? She doesn't say.I wonder if John ever told Patsy the meaning of the scarf ... doesn't sound like it.
     
  10. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    Thank you for bringing some clarity to my remembrance, funny how the word 'tucked' stuck in my mind. BUT, I had forgotten that it appears that the scarf is being distanced from JonBenet, by DOI NOT saying that it was purchased for her, which it appears it was NOT purchased for her. Why would JR buy a beautiful silk scarf, I guess I am having a dumb 'moment' in that I am thinking about never having known a man who purchased a silk scarf for themselves, er, could happen I guess, I donut swing in heavy financial circles.

    Somewhere deep within my heart I think 'that' scarf has some stories to tell, especially forensic ones. For IF IF 'that' scarf has some pieces of the rope that strangled JonBenet on it, that might be enough to bring some folks into the courtroom.

    Wonder where 'it' had been kept since the 'purchase', folded neatly in a drawer or in a little box.

    This is another eureka moment for me, for exhuming JonBenet.



    .
     
  11. Thorkim

    Thorkim Member

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    Ditto Camper. Dig her up. Now.
     
  12. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    What an interesting question. Hmmm. Okay, so John and Patsy supposedly find their daughter dead on the morning of December 26th. They never return to the house once they are shooed out of it. At best, they have Pam retrieve some sentimental curios and clothes. They then spend all their time post-murder supposedly so out of their minds with emotion that they can barely eat or sleep.

    So do tell, John and Patsy. How did that scarf John bought get into his hands in Georgia? Obviously he had no ability or desire to buy it after JonBenet was dead. And equally obviously there was no innocent ability or desire to ask Pam to retrieve it from the house as a sentimental curio, since it had never belonged to JonBenet while she was alive. So a reasonable circumstantial case can be made for the theory that John and/or Patsy knew the scarf was the initial ligature used in JonBenet's death, also knew it could contain trace evidence directly related to either JonBenet's bed, the basement crime scene, the ligature cord, or body fluids, and therefore one or both would have had motive to literally bury this evidence.

    I join the call. This scarf (which is conveniently also not identified as to the colors it is made of) becomes a reason to exhume JonBenet. How very, very, VERY inconvenient it would be if John and Patsy were found to have buried their daughter with a scarf whose fibers match the unidentified ones found on her skin, let alone if so much as a single drop of blood from a quick wiping were present.

    Edited to clarify: I had briefly mentioned that the scarf material was not identified, then quickly saw that it was called silk. Still, we only have Patsy's word that the scarf was silk, and we know at this point that her word is nigh useless. Open questions abound. Were there red fibers in the scarf which might match the ones found on the duct tape? What material exactly are the fibers made of that are not red and were also found on the tape? Could they match the scarf?
     
  13. Camper

    Camper New Member

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  14. Camper

    Camper New Member

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  15. capps

    capps New Member

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    I don't believe there was anything sinister about the scarf. I was just curious,because there was no mention in DOI of what the scarf meant to John and why he felt the need to put it in with JonBenet.I thought maybe it was mentioned some where else,in an interview or some where, and I missed it.

    Although not important ... there's a picture in DOI of Beth Ramsey holding a baby which is noted as Beth holding little JonBenet. No way is that infant JonBenet. JB was very fair skinned with light hair ... the baby Beth is holding is olive skinned with mounds of dark almost black hair.I wonder what baby she is holding?

    Can you tell I'm into reading DOI?? ...lol.
     
  16. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    __________________


    Why_Nutt, what a wonderfully thought out piece of work! Wonder if the scarf was retrieved from the basement when John went down on his first unchaperoned trip? Possible. Easily slipped into his pocket IF IF it were silk. IF IF it were indeed silk, silk picks up everthing it touches with those very fine openings in the material. (quilter talking here - lottsa fabric knowledge)

    IF John did retrieve the scarf from the basement, either from somewhere it had been stashed, or FROM the body. IF he did, perhaps others had seen him wear 'that' scarf. Would not set too well IF the scarf had been found ON the body.

    Betcha the parents of a kidnapped child were not searched when BPD came. He could have stashed it in the stuff that auntie Pam picked up. Again when did he purchase 'the' scarf? At least we know WHERE the scarf IS. All the remnants of rope that prepped the EA device, the duct tape, etc. conveniently disappeared, but NOT the scarf.

    Think it is about time to bring up the list of stuff that auntie Pam took by request of PR and JR. Anyone have access to 'that' list for us?

    Yep right about NOW would be 'THE' time for BPD to question the folks that watched Johns special ceremony, about WHAT DID THE SCARF look like, colors etc. Perhaps they have all caught Ramnesia by now.

    Anyone remember what John was wearing when they left the house 'that' day? My hed is remembering that John had put on shorts at one point early on 'that' morning, IF I am in err, tell me when or if he changed clothes yet again.
     
  17. Cupiedoo

    Cupiedoo New Member

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    Okay...here's a random thought for ya! I was listening to a set of Christian tapes yesterday and the speaker relayed the story about a father who purchased a beautiful piece of white silk and placed it in an ornate box. He presented the gift to his young daughter while expressing his desire that his daughter remain pure and chaste for her future husband. The silk was a metaphore for that purity, and would be incorporated into the daughter's handmade wedding dress in the future. I thought it was a lovely gesture.

    Anywho...that story came to mind when reading about the scarf.

    Cupiedoo
     
  18. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    From the NE book, pgs 246-47:

    Patsy was shown photos taken off a roll of film that John Ramsey turned over to the police in the hours before JonBenet's body was found. The roll was in the camera he used to take pictures that Christmas. To get the film to the end of the roll, John snapped off the last few shots. In doing so, he inadvertently photographed the wet bar near the foot of the spiral staircase. The photo showed a black and red scarf left on the sink counter there. Patsy couldn't say whether it was John's scarf or one she had given out as gifts to the men who attended the Ramsey Christmas party on December 23rd.

    PR: ...This (scarf) looks strange to me...

    TH: Well, this photo...was on your roll of film in your camera. And on the same roll is the next photo, a Christmas morning photo of the kids.

    PR: ...Oh, God.
     
  19. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    Is this Korean?
     
  20. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    Well, I find that very instressting (my oldest son when 3 yrs old could not say interesting) he is now a high ranking policeman.

    What would a silk scarf be doing lying in that location, particularly IF IF it were a recently purchased beautiful silk one? This should be easily checked NOW, black and red scarf makes it even. MORE interesting

    If I recall there were unidentified black and red vibres found on her body, am I right? Double check that one.

    I don't think 'WE' ever saw those pictures did 'WE'?

    To those posters who are not up to speed on an EA device, BlueCrab graciously explained how those devices work. Often a soft material is placed around the neck to soften the stress of the 'strangulation/air restriction' part of the activity with rope on top of the fabric.

    Dr. Henree Ree missed this part of the caze.

    IF IF the scarf that is 'tucked' around JonBenet in her casket is the same scarf that was lying on the counter, this my fellow posters could in fact be 'the' smoking gun of the case.

    PR said she had never seen the scarf before, yet talks of a scarf in DOI that was 'recently' purchased by JR.



    .
     
  21. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Active Member

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    Actually, in the NE book interview, Patsy says of the scarf "this just looks strange to me." There are dots.....before her words and dots...after her words, which makes it appear that she said more but they didn't include that part of the interview in the book. So, we don't really know what she was meaning by that statement, unless someone has a copy of the entire interview about the scarf. Maybe she meant the scarf itself was suspect, or perhaps she meant that the scarf was familiar but was placed in an odd place.

    Regardless, Camper, I think you are onto a great line of thinking about the scarf. Just the fact that it was not described in detail by Patsy in DOI makes it suspicious in itself.
     

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