Why do you think some of the parents have changed their mind?

Discussion in 'West Memphis III' started by laurensmom, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. laurensmom

    laurensmom New Member

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    I'm about to start re-reading the court transcripts, but before I do, I wanted to ask what do you believe happened to cause a couple of the parents to change their minds?
     
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  3. Sunnyone

    Sunnyone Former Member

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    Well this of course is just my opinion :)

    JMB: To be honest, I don't believe he has truly changed his mind. Now that being said is he advocating and stating he does, yes. So the question becomes why? According to all the things I've heard, I believe he is doing it for financial reasons and the media attention.

    Pam Hobbs: She is a little harder for me to understand. One time she will say she thinks they are innocent or at least imply it, then next time she says she doesn't know but thinks they deserve a new trial. So the question again becomes why?
    I think it's more complicated in some respects and about the same as JMB in others. Once again according to what I've heard, I believe she hopes to reap some financial reward as well, but I think the crux of her remarks are spite towards her ex-husband. I believe she wants TH back (based on what I've heard), but in lieu of that she hopes to ruin his life and helping the defense is a good way of accomplishing that. Unfortunately I believe she is also ruining her relationship with their daughter. Amanda has consistently defended Terry as recently as the Larry King show. I also believe Pam has a difficult time dealing with her grief, she has had her share of troubles with the police, drugs, assaulting her mom, her daughter. ( I am by no means judging her as I would probably fall to pieces in her place).

    This is another thing I've heard and I believe, but then again this whole post is just my opinion. I heard that the defense, namely Lorri Davis offered Amanda a new car and money to go to a hypnotist and see if she could be hypnotized into remembering anything that would help the defense and to not see her father. There was a article where Terry accused Lorri, but Lorri denied it. So it becomes a he said/she said. It's not that I necessarily believe Terry, but by the accounts I've heard Amanda and Todd Moore agree it was Lorri Davis.

    That is my opinion of the two parents that at least seemed to have changed their minds.
     
  4. EntreNous

    EntreNous New Member

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    are we allowed to discuss/interject unsubstantiated rumors? i'm only saying this because you simply said you "heard" some of the things you posted. if there is a report or link to this information i would like to see it, please.
     
  5. Sunnyone

    Sunnyone Former Member

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    My post clearly states all through it that it's my opinion. Now if this isn't allowed could an ADMIN please let me know? I would also kindly request that if a post is in question that others follow the rules of service and report it as abuse, therefore letting the Admins decide. Thank you
     
  6. laurensmom

    laurensmom New Member

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    No-I was looking for opinion-guess I should have made that clear. It's really all we have unless we talk to JMB or PH personally.
     
  7. aussiesleuth

    aussiesleuth New Member

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    I think the abject poverty and lack of education that is common to most of the involved parties plays a big part. PH has, I think been almost brainwashed into changing her mind, by those she sees as better than her ie more educated and affluent. MB will say anything to either garner some more attention for himself or to take suspicion away from him. He turned on TH once the hair was found because too many people were supporting the wm3 and therefore were still highly suspicious of him. If he could push those suspicions towards someone else, well why not?
     
  8. Dirty larry

    Dirty larry Former Member

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    Well, I have - on many occations over the years.

    In fact, Mark asked me five years ago to help him find an attorney who would file a wrongful death civil suit against Echols so he could tap into the Lorri Davis cash cow which was reportedly nearing a million dollars at the time.

    So whilst Entrenous may claim that sunnyone's post is "unsubstantiated rumor", the fact is, what she said is indeed accurate, and documented.

    But you don't need to take our word for it.

    For example:

    Byers regrets that he didn’t get more money for appearing in the documentaries and swears he’s not going to do another. A few minutes later, he corrects this. He might, if he has a contract and a lawyer by his side.

    “This is news to me,” Jackie Byers laughs.

    “Oh, yeah. I’ve got a different aspect on it. They would pay me big money,” he says.


    http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/life-after-death/Content?oid=1129741

    And Pam?

    Well, as she told me, things aren't often as they seem.

    But let's have a look at what she had to say about Mara Leveritt after she "came out" as a supporter, and Mara refused to help her financially:

    Everyone that has followed this case know I have always talked freely about my feeling which was a method of healing for me. However I have always resented the fact that there are some who have made money due to my life my lost and my words.
    I recently ask for help from someone whom I thought might help me with a loan. Not being one to ask for anything from someone it was awakard for me to ask to begin with.
    I ask Mara Leverett ( Devil's Knot) for a loan. In which she told me she could not help due to her fugual means of living. She suggested that I write WM3.ORG if anyone had a used car I could have that I would get more response than asking for money.
    The feeling of humilation was overwhelming like I said I never wanted to ask. I learned a valuable lesson and that is to no longer waste my time on Journalist and will limit my comments made public because I have come to realize there are people such as Mara who say they care I will do anything I can to help then when I ask I am told I am sorry I cant help.
    Once again someday this nightmare will be over for the public but continues for me for the rest of my life along with the WM3 men. We are all victims of public knowledge, public record. We are no longer plain Jane Doe Or Jon Doe we are only a matter of the public our lifes are no longer private such as others who are fortunate to live their life in private.
    I did not post this to ask anyone for help just wanted to make it known I am human also with no private life anymore.

    Pam


    If you are still confused about Pam's motivation, then it's by choice.

    See?

    You don't have to talk to these parents, you don't have to know what they were dealing with - you don't even have to be from this country.

    You just have to be a rational person who objectively looks at the situation.
     
  9. Dirty larry

    Dirty larry Former Member

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    Just to add....

    Why do you suppose Mara told Pam it would be better to ask for a car than cash?
     
  10. Mrs G Norris

    Mrs G Norris #JeSuisUrsa

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    ....because a cash payment from WM3 to PH would look make her support for the WM3 look financially motivated.

    Question: what kind of funds does WM3.ORG have? Are they particularly well funded? A million dollars? That's a lot more that I would have expected....does it provide an income from a number of people or just DE's wife?
     
  11. Dirty larry

    Dirty larry Former Member

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    I certainly can't think of any other explaination.

    Here's some help for those who drank the supporter kool-aid, that the Defense held this "meeting" where Pam and Mark were "exposed to this new evidence" that changed their minds.

    Pam "turned" in july, when the DNA results were in. (and when Elizibeth Fowler wrote her and Terry checks for $12,500.00 each.)

    Mark spent the next three months doing everything in his power to discredit Pam, calling her a junky and a money grubbing whore who embezzled cash from a victim's support group and who was only playing supporter for the money.

    It wasn't until Ron Lax payed Mark a visit in October that he decided to join the party.

    I know this because I spoke to him on the phone that very day, and he told me quite clearly that Lax told him there was "plenty to go around".
     
  12. Mrs G Norris

    Mrs G Norris #JeSuisUrsa

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    Oh dear. That is so sad but understandable. In all honesty the families should have been taken care of....do they not have victims compensation in the states? Not that it's so great here, but it's something. How wrong is it that the WM3 is getting financial donations but the actual victims are left out in the cold.
     
  13. Dirty larry

    Dirty larry Former Member

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    I LOVE the fact that Mark is cashing in, I just don't like how he chose to do it.

    But he and Terry will sort that when the press leaves.
     
  14. aussiesleuth

    aussiesleuth New Member

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    It is wrong, especially considering the dire situations some of these families are in. It's also very frustrating that Damien's assertations that he would influence the world and be remembered would usually be written off as the delusions of a mad man, and in this case it's proved to be true, which only feeds his particular brand of insanity!
     
  15. Mrs G Norris

    Mrs G Norris #JeSuisUrsa

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    Way wrong, and yes agree that Damien has got his wish, he's getting a massive amount of attention and even admiration....

    I hope they are, they both deserve it for what they've been subjected to, not just losing their sons but being used as SODDIs by the defense, and having their names dragged through the mud under the spotlight of the media.
     
  16. Dirty larry

    Dirty larry Former Member

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    Considerably less once Burnett forced them to acknowledge on their web-site that none of the money they collected actually went to the Defense of the WM3.

    Instead, those funds were simply to "raise awareness".
    That's the Damien Echols defense fund, and that figure is over three years old.

    Another thing to bear in mind is that Rollins and Vedder paid the attornies directly for the DNA testing.

    So is Lorri's money going to the attorneys?

    Here's Riordan at the 2007 press conference:

    Question: Can you tell me about the Defense Fund?

    Dennis Riordan: Well, I’ll tell you what I know about that. What I know about that is that Lorri Davis, the wife of Damien Echols contacted us in 2003 and said, you know, we’ve been told you guys know federal habeas corpus, will you get involved in this case? And we said we’re lawyers in San Francisco, it requires – you’re unhappy with the level investigation and factual investigation, so you need that on the ground in Arkansas. How can we possibly do this? And she has said work on the case and I will find a way to raise funds. And all we know is that every now and then we contact her and say, Lorri we haven’t heard from you in awhile, and she says I’ll get to work on this.


    So she clearly hadn't been paying him at that point.

    How about Baldwin's attorney, John Phillipsborn?

    Here he is in 2008....

    John Philipsborn, a San Francisco lawyer for Baldwin, said he took the case after rock band Pearl Jam and punk rocker Henry Rollins raised money for DNA testing of evidence from the killings. That money, which Philipsborn described as entering the "tens of thousands" of dollars, came six years ago along with a small lump sum for the attorneys on the case.

    Since then, Philipsborn said he and attorneys representing Misskelley haven't seen matching funding, though an Internet site about the case asks supporters to donate to the "Damien Echols Trust Fund."

    "If a million dollars has been raised, I know nothing about that," Philipsborn told The Associated Press from Honolulu. "I think it is fair to say after the amazing generosity of Pearl Jam and Henry Rollins, the non-Echols teams have not seen a lot of funding."


    Looks like Lorri is doing pretty well for herself.
     
  17. aussiesleuth

    aussiesleuth New Member

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    Hi, Dirty Larry, I feel so far removed from this case, being in Australia, but have been intrigued with it for years now. I admit to owning a "free the west memphis three" tshirt, which isn't easy to come by over here. I have spent many hours researching this case, and would be interested in hearing more of your opinions on the case. What was the defining piece of evidence that convinced you of their guilt? I have gone fropm being a staunch supporter to strongly believing they are guilty. TIA
     
  18. laurensmom

    laurensmom New Member

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    Aussie...I do the exact same! I just wish one thing would stick out for me so I would just make up my mind. Sadly, JM's confession is just not pushing me over the edge. I just know Arkansas politics....I know how things work here....the WMPD needed someone arrested for this. I've talked to several LE and none of them think the WM3 are guilty and they do have access to inside info. But, in the same breath they'll mention how they can relate to the WMPD and the pressure they felt to have someone pay for the horrendous crime.
     
  19. Sunnyone

    Sunnyone Former Member

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    What inside information could they possibly have or gain access to? Except for the sealed documents everything else is available for the public. (and supposedly even one sealed document has been garnered by the media).

    I'm sorry I can't give your post more weight just because you allege you spoke to some LE and they agree with you and they supposedly have access to some inside information. I spoke in chat just last night with a prosecuting attorney who stated they met the requirements of the statute to proceed with the case and that she would have brought it to trial if she had been the PA. I've also spoken with Michael's father in chat and if anyone had inside information it would be him. He believes they are guilty. Now do I expect anyone to give my post more weight because of this information... absolutely not. I don't think you can take this case and look at the evidence one by one... I think you have to put it together and look at the whole picture and that whole picture is guilt for me.

    FYI: It's not one confession, it's now 4 proven confessions. (I count the first two as one, so technically it's 5)
     
  20. laurensmom

    laurensmom New Member

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    I think you may have misread my post. It was how I feel and my experiences. I'm not trying to prove anything with my post....I was simply relating to the above poster--that is all. By inside information I mean - they're also investigators/they are very familiar with the case.....they can understand things from a point of view that I simply cannot.

    You believe they're guilty-I am starting completely over. Give me a littttttle bit of slack :) You seem to be well-read on this case and I just thought I was....that is why I'm starting over.
     
  21. Sunnyone

    Sunnyone Former Member

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    I don't think I misread your post.

    " I've talked to several LE and none of them think the WM3 are guilty and they do have access to inside info. But, in the same breath they'll mention how they can relate to the WMPD and the pressure they felt to have someone pay for the horrendous crime."

    With that being said however, I have no issue with you at all. I actually give you full kudo's for starting over and possibly re-thinking your stance. I've never changed my mind, but I've had to do some major research when certain things have come up in the case. (mainly listening to the defense rhetoric only to find the information was either misleading or downright untrue). I lurked for months if not over a year before I would even post on the boards. I still don't know as much as others do, but if something catches my attention, I'm off to research it. lol
     

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